"Coby Beck" wrote in message
news:A3V7f.56814$S4.16901@edtnps84...
"Well Done" wrote in message
...
"Coby Beck" wrote:
How long can people go on shrugging it all off?

Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming. The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.

I bet you can not find a single quote of any "Hurricane scientist"
insisting
that there is no GW effect involved in the current exceptional hurrican
season.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

North central Florida has temperatures in the 40s degrees F. this early
evening Wed. Oct. 26. No doubt this single event must be due to global
warming - or maybe global cooling - or maybe global ya-da-ya-da-ya-da...
..There is a pothole in the road at the corner of 1st Street and 2nd Avenue.
No doubt the entire highway system is in chaos.

"James Annan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coby Beck wrote:
"Well Done" wrote in message
...
"Coby Beck" wrote:
How long can people go on shrugging it all off?

Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming. The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.

I bet you can not find a single quote of any "Hurricane scientist"
insisting
that there is no GW effect involved in the current exceptional hurrican
season.

Well Roger Pielke Jnr did applaud James Glassman of TCS when the latter
said:

"Katrina has nothing to do with global warming. Nothing."

which seems to me to be near enough the same thing - but perhaps you
exclude RPJnr from your list of "hurricane scientists"? I wouldn't be
surprised if Bill "I predict global cooling" Gray has said similar
things.

Such statements strike me as just as irresponsible as "global warming
destroyed NOLA". I would expect a properly qualified something like "there
is no evidence that GW has cause more or more severe hurricanes" as the
strongest justified sceptical statement.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

Coby Beck wrote:
"James Annan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coby Beck wrote:

I bet you can not find a single quote of any "Hurricane scientist"
insisting
that there is no GW effect involved in the current exceptional hurrican
season.

Well Roger Pielke Jnr did applaud James Glassman of TCS when the latter
said:

"Katrina has nothing to do with global warming. Nothing."

which seems to me to be near enough the same thing - but perhaps you
exclude RPJnr from your list of "hurricane scientists"? I wouldn't be
surprised if Bill "I predict global cooling" Gray has said similar
things.

Such statements strike me as just as irresponsible as "global warming
destroyed NOLA". I would expect a properly qualified something like "there
is no evidence that GW has cause more or more severe hurricanes" as the
strongest justified sceptical statement.

I think, to be fair, that this is much closer to RP's views (it might
be even more precise to say that there is no _significant_ evidence for
increase hurricanes, or alternatively that there is no evidence for
increased _impacts_, rather than that there is no evidence at all for
any change in hurricane stats). In fact he just emailed me to object to
being equated to Glassman - which I didn't mean to do, and don't think
my previous post can reasonably be interpreted as doing. Nevertheless,
his praise of Glassman which I referred to (and a link to Glassman's
article on TCS) can be found at:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/pr...eding_the.html

James

amcwill417 wrote:
"Coby Beck" wrote in message
news:A3V7f.56814$S4.16901@edtnps84...
"Well Done" wrote in message
...
"Coby Beck" wrote:
How long can people go on shrugging it all off?

Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming. The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.

I bet you can not find a single quote of any "Hurricane scientist"
insisting
that there is no GW effect involved in the current exceptional hurrican
season.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

North central Florida has temperatures in the 40s degrees F. this early
evening Wed. Oct. 26. No doubt this single event must be due to global
warming - or maybe global cooling - or maybe global ya-da-ya-da-ya-da...
.There is a pothole in the road at the corner of 1st Street and 2nd Avenue.
No doubt the entire highway system is in chaos.

First their products make the Hurricanes, then it costs $100,000,000 to
evacuate from the hurricane consuming their products, then they raise
the price of the product because of the hurricane. Apply, lather,
rinse, repeat.

---------
This message is brought to you by Global Warming,
ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, Chevron, Cato Institute,
Koch Oil, Tech Central Station, Satan Inc.,
George C. Marshall Inst., Ford and GM.
---------

In article ,
Well Done wrote:
"Coby Beck" wrote:
How long can people go on shrugging it all off?

Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming.

Well, the actual scientists are saying we simply don't have enough information
to know. They're not out there insisting GW is to blame or not to blame.


The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.

Hurricanes depend on warm ocean water for their strength.

"James Annan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coby Beck wrote:
"James Annan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Well Roger Pielke Jnr did applaud James Glassman of TCS when the latter
said:

"Katrina has nothing to do with global warming. Nothing."

which seems to me to be near enough the same thing - but perhaps you
exclude RPJnr from your list of "hurricane scientists"? I wouldn't be
surprised if Bill "I predict global cooling" Gray has said similar
things.

Such statements strike me as just as irresponsible as "global warming
destroyed NOLA". I would expect a properly qualified something like
"there
is no evidence that GW has cause more or more severe hurricanes" as the
strongest justified sceptical statement.

I think, to be fair, that this is much closer to RP's views (it might
be even more precise to say that there is no _significant_ evidence for
increase hurricanes, or alternatively that there is no evidence for
increased _impacts_, rather than that there is no evidence at all for
any change in hurricane stats). In fact he just emailed me to object to
being equated to Glassman - which I didn't mean to do, and don't think
my previous post can reasonably be interpreted as doing. Nevertheless,
his praise of Glassman which I referred to (and a link to Glassman's
article on TCS) can be found at:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/pr...eding_the.html

I don't see any misrepresentation in what you said either. I understand and
even agree with in pricipal, RP's point, but I think he went too far in
granting any moral high ground to TechCentralStation given the quote you
highlighted above, that is the exact same crime RP praises them for jumping
on.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

Coby Beck wrote:

"James Annan" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coby Beck wrote:

"James Annan" wrote in message
egroups.com...

Well Roger Pielke Jnr did applaud James Glassman of TCS when the latter
said:

"Katrina has nothing to do with global warming. Nothing."

which seems to me to be near enough the same thing - but perhaps you
exclude RPJnr from your list of "hurricane scientists"? I wouldn't be
surprised if Bill "I predict global cooling" Gray has said similar
things.

Such statements strike me as just as irresponsible as "global warming
destroyed NOLA". I would expect a properly qualified something like
"there
is no evidence that GW has cause more or more severe hurricanes" as the
strongest justified sceptical statement.

I think, to be fair, that this is much closer to RP's views (it might
be even more precise to say that there is no _significant_ evidence for
increase hurricanes, or alternatively that there is no evidence for
increased _impacts_, rather than that there is no evidence at all for
any change in hurricane stats). In fact he just emailed me to object to
being equated to Glassman - which I didn't mean to do, and don't think
my previous post can reasonably be interpreted as doing. Nevertheless,
his praise of Glassman which I referred to (and a link to Glassman's
article on TCS) can be found at:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/pr...eding_the.html


I don't see any misrepresentation in what you said either. I understand and
even agree with in pricipal, RP's point, but I think he went too far in
granting any moral high ground to TechCentralStation given the quote you
highlighted above, that is the exact same crime RP praises them for jumping
on.



It isn't hard to find Bill "I predict cooling" Gray saying similar
things too:

http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-0...over-dialogue/

-----
You don’t believe global warming is causing climate change?

G: No. If it is, it is causing such a small part that it is negligible.
I’m not disputing that there has been global warming. There was a lot of
global warming in the 1930s and ’40s, and then there was a slight global
cooling from the middle ’40s to the early ’70s. And there has been
warming since the middle ’70s, especially in the last 10 years. But this
is natural, due to ocean circulation changes and other factors. It is
not human induced.
-----

Note he's not actually saying the hurricanes have nothing to do with
warming - but he is saying that the warming itself has nothing to do
with anthropogenic forcing.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

Lloyd Parker wrote:
In article ,
Well Done wrote:

"Coby Beck" wrote:

How long can people go on shrugging it all off?


Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming.


Well, the actual scientists are saying we simply don't have enough information
to know. They're not out there insisting GW is to blame or not to blame.



The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.


Hurricanes depend on warm ocean water for their strength.

True. But the relationship is not linear and depends
on other factors, most notably vertical wind shear.


Scott

Scott wrote:
Lloyd Parker wrote:
In article ,
Well Done wrote:

"Coby Beck" wrote:

How long can people go on shrugging it all off?


Some of the folks who are "shrugging it off" are Hurricane scientists,
who know what is going on. They INSIST this is NOT due to any global
warming.


Well, the actual scientists are saying we simply don't have enough information
to know. They're not out there insisting GW is to blame or not to blame.



The only known effect global warming has on hurricanes is
that they are reduced when El Nino is active. Period.


Hurricanes depend on warm ocean water for their strength.

True. But the relationship is not linear and depends
on other factors, most notably vertical wind shear.


Scott

Wind Shear itself depends on heat, specifically, there must be a
reservoir of heat in one location and a reservoir of coolth in a
location within a distance sufficient to interact.

For this reason there have only very rarely been hurricanes in
December, January and February, although they are recorded as historic
truth. Hurricane season started early this year and looks like it will
end late (one tropical storm nearing hurricane strength now, and a
second one gestating nearby it at this minute), because the cold pool
is sufficiently suppressed at a distance away from the warm pool so
they don't interact before the hurricane is fully formed. Once formed,
hurricanes are more resistent to shear than infant storms, as we saw
this past week with WILMA.

At the moment the warm and cool pools are so close together that storms
have great difficulty forming. This will not be true under a warming
arctic scenario. There are two perpetual pools of polar opposites then
in close enough proximity to generate the vortex but no pools of coolth
to generate the shear. The hurricane-formation pools are the SST and
the cloudtops of -70oC or -80oC which will never change under any
scenario.

The only shear left in a warming world is the hurricanes themselves
interacting on each other. The planet would then be fairly said to be
"boiling" with hurricanes dissipating heat as they do, mechanically,
unthinkingly, and remorseless about the chaos they produce to life at
the biosphere level.

You can't generate shear out of your pocket, and have no tame
leprechans which will save your ostrich buttocks from the impact of
your very poor decisions to turn your life over to oil monopolists
control.

First their products make the Hurricanes, then it costs $100,000,000 to
evacuate from the hurricane consuming their products, then they raise
the price of the product because of the hurricane. Apply, lather,
rinse, repeat.

---------
This message is brought to you by Global Warming,
ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, Chevron, Cato Institute,
Koch Oil, Tech Central Station, Satan Inc.,
George C. Marshall Inst., Ford and GM.
---------

---------
Additional sponsors of this message are Karl Rove,
Scooter Libby, GOP, George Bush, Rush Limbaugh,
Vice President Halliburton, American Enerprise Inst.,
Competitive Enterprise Inst., Council on Foreign Relations,
Satan Inc., and the World Bank.
---------