On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:45:45 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

If someone can claim a "mile thick" of ice 20K years ago then I guess
this opens the doors for all kind of claims.

Thanks for opening that door for me, and millions of others.

I thought it was well known, just a fact, not meant
to cause controversy.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/archeology/eam/glaciers.htm


And regarding temperature;

"The best evidence seems to suggest that, globally, the average air
temperature was cooler by some 6 to 12° Celsius, and that daily
temperature at latitudes such as Indiana fluctuated seasonally almost as
much as they do today."

http://igs.indiana.edu/Geology/ancie...rame/index.cfm

Joe Fischer

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:40:25 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 Joe Fischer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:45:45 -0400, Bob Brown wrote:
If someone can claim a "mile thick" of ice 20K years ago then I guess
this opens the doors for all kind of claims.

Thanks for opening that door for me, and millions of others.

I thought it was well known, just a fact, not meant
to cause controversy.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/archeology/eam/glaciers.htm


And regarding temperature;

"The best evidence seems to suggest that, globally, the average air
temperature was cooler by some 6 to 12° Celsius, and that daily
temperature at latitudes such as Indiana fluctuated seasonally almost as
much as they do today."

http://igs.indiana.edu/Geology/ancie...rame/index.cfm
Joe Fischer

ONE MILE THICK ICE?

Are you certain?

No, I have to take the word of people who drill
holes in the present ice sheets on Greenland and
the continent of Antarctica for what is there now,
and the opinion of geologists who study past eras.

The first link I mentioned above shows the
area covered by ice at three times in the relatively
recent past by clicking on the different age markers,
to view it in a browser, double click the underlined url.

Here is a link that describes the thickness of
the Greenland ice sheet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

Here is a link that shows a graph of past
temperatures which began warming 18000 years ago,
and have been fairly stable in the last 10000 years,
and that is topical here.

The thickness real time thickness of the ice
sheets depends more on how much snow they receive,
because most of the melting is on the edges, and the
ice flows outward from the thickest part where it is
presently more than two miles thick, pressure melts
the ice and it flows in streams under the ice.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Stu...logy_IceCores/

Here is a link that talks about ice sheets in the
past and estimates of the future at different temperatures;

http://earth.usc.edu/~geol150/variab...icesheets.html

Joe Fischer

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 05:26:24 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

The first link I mentioned above shows the
area covered by ice at three times in the relatively
recent past by clicking on the different age markers,
to view it in a browser, double click the underlined url.

Here is a link that describes the thickness of
the Greenland ice sheet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet


Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago"
I have to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some
area unpopulated like an ice shelf.

Again I ask, does anyone want to lay claim that where they live now,
20K years ago their wa ICE a "mile thick"?

I can re-quote the posting if needed.

Bob Brown wrote:

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago" I have
to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some area
unpopulated like an ice shelf.

I once lived in New Hampshire. The top of the tallest mountain, Mt
Washington, 1910 m high, somewhat more than a mile, was covered at the
peak of the last ice age. As the flow of the ice was from north to south,
then anything to the north of this would have had more than a mile of ice
covering it. Montreal, Quebec City, etc. As I was far closer to Mt
Washington than the terminal moraine (Long Island, Block Island,
Nantucket), the ice was probably near to a mile thick were I lived.

Where I live today (Seattle, WA) probably had a peak coverage of only a
thousand meters or so, based on moraine deposits on the sides of the
mountains both west and east of Seattle.

Of course, the peak of the last ice age probably wasn't 20kya. Is that
your point?


--
Phil Hays

Bob Brown wrote:

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago"
I have to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some
area unpopulated like an ice shelf.

Are you claiming that the Laurentide ice sheet wasn't a mile thick in
many places? Sorry to burst your bubble, but it was. Your criterion for
populated cities is meaningless. Back then, the entire area was, except
perhaps for the occasional straggler, devoid of humans.

--
Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

In article , says...

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:40:25 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 Joe Fischer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:45:45 -0400, Bob Brown wrote:

http://igs.indiana.edu/Geology/ancie...rame/index.cfm
Joe Fischer

ONE MILE THICK ICE?

Are you certain?

No, I have to take the word of people who drill
holes in the present ice sheets on Greenland and
the continent of Antarctica for what is there now,
and the opinion of geologists who study past eras.

The first link I mentioned above shows the
area covered by ice at three times in the relatively
recent past by clicking on the different age markers,
to view it in a browser, double click the underlined url.

Here is a link that describes the thickness of
the Greenland ice sheet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

Here is a link that shows a graph of past
temperatures which began warming 18000 years ago,
and have been fairly stable in the last 10000 years,
and that is topical here.

One can also consider the evidence for previous sea levels, which
began to rise at about 18,000 BP and then reached nearly that of
today by about 7,000 BP.

http://radiocarbon.ldeo.columbia.edu...h/sealevel.htm

Careful "Joe", this science stuff can get to be an addiction..:-)
Been following the Peak Oil issue too?

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:21:53 GMT, Phil Hays wrote:

Bob Brown wrote:

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago" I have
to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some area
unpopulated like an ice shelf.

I once lived in New Hampshire. The top of the tallest mountain, Mt
Washington, 1910 m high, somewhat more than a mile, was covered at the
peak of the last ice age. As the flow of the ice was from north to south,
then anything to the north of this would have had more than a mile of ice
covering it. Montreal, Quebec City, etc. As I was far closer to Mt
Washington than the terminal moraine (Long Island, Block Island,
Nantucket), the ice was probably near to a mile thick were I lived.

Where I live today (Seattle, WA) probably had a peak coverage of only a
thousand meters or so, based on moraine deposits on the sides of the
mountains both west and east of Seattle.

Of course, the peak of the last ice age probably wasn't 20kya. Is that
your point?


No. Take a city like Chicago. Go back 20K years and someone HERE said
that the ice was "a mile thick".

I don't believe that and I would ENJOY someone proving me wrong.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:40:02 -0600, kT wrote:

Bob Brown wrote:

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago"
I have to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some
area unpopulated like an ice shelf.

Are you claiming that the Laurentide ice sheet wasn't a mile thick in
many places? Sorry to burst your bubble, but it was. Your criterion for
populated cities is meaningless. Back then, the entire area was, except
perhaps for the occasional straggler, devoid of humans.


THIS IS THE COMMENT
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:56:14 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

I am sure that 20,000 years a ago, where I am,
the temperature was 50 degrees colder, because
ice was a mile thick here, so I am sure it is warmer
now, but I have not seen any evidence that there
is an "upward trend".

Notice where he says "where I am", indicating he is talking about a
well populated city "TODAY". I am asking does it make any sense that
ice was a "mile thick" in the area 20K years ago?

I am asking about the AREA he mentioned, not greenland.

Please, I am not asking a difficult or trick question.

On Sat, Bob Brown . wrote:

On Sat, Joe Fischer wrote:
The first link I mentioned above shows the
area covered by ice at three times in the relatively
recent past by clicking on the different age markers,
to view it in a browser, double click the underlined url.

Here is a link that describes the thickness of
the Greenland ice sheet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago"

That was me.

I have to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some
area unpopulated like an ice shelf.

Why would you assume that, there is no evidence
of a well populated area or city from 20,000 years ago.

Again I ask, does anyone want to lay claim that where they live now,
20K years ago their wa ICE a "mile thick"?

Anybody in Ohio, Indiana, southeastern Canada,
maybe the Netherlands and Belgium and many other
places can claim that based on paleogeology studies.

I can re-quote the posting if needed.

So can I, is there any question about North America
and parts of Europe having an ice sheet as thick as
Greenland today?

With all the clickable links I posted, isn't the
accepted ice sheet data good enough?

There was global warming 20,000 years ago,
up until about 8,000 years ago, and smaller cycles
since then.
And there were very few men burning coal
or oil then.

Joe Fischer

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:35:06 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

On Sat, Bob Brown . wrote:

On Sat, Joe Fischer wrote:
The first link I mentioned above shows the
area covered by ice at three times in the relatively
recent past by clicking on the different age markers,
to view it in a browser, double click the underlined url.

Here is a link that describes the thickness of
the Greenland ice sheet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

Someone said "where I live the ice was a mile thick 20K years ago"

That was me.

I have to assume he meant some city in a well populated area, not some
area unpopulated like an ice shelf.

Why would you assume that, there is no evidence
of a well populated area or city from 20,000 years ago.

Again I ask, does anyone want to lay claim that where they live now,
20K years ago their wa ICE a "mile thick"?

Anybody in Ohio, Indiana, southeastern Canada,
maybe the Netherlands and Belgium and many other
places can claim that based on paleogeology studies.

I can re-quote the posting if needed.

So can I, is there any question about North America
and parts of Europe having an ice sheet as thick as
Greenland today?

With all the clickable links I posted, isn't the
accepted ice sheet data good enough?

There was global warming 20,000 years ago,
up until about 8,000 years ago, and smaller cycles
since then.
And there were very few men burning coal
or oil then.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:56:14 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

I am sure that 20,000 years a ago, where I am,
the temperature was 50 degrees colder, because
ice was a mile thick here, so I am sure it is warmer
now, but I have not seen any evidence that there
is an "upward trend".

You said "where I am" indicating a known place were many humans live
TODAY. I have to assume you don't live in the artic circle so I want
to know how we could have ice "a mile thick" even 20K years ago?


5,280 feet high of ice?

If that was a common height at that time, could you explain where the
water went? I would also think 20K years isn't long enough, even under
extreme circumstances, to melt vast areas of ice "a mile thick",
wouldn't you?

I'm not harassing you, I just need a gentle answer.