On Oct 9, 2:12 pm, davee wrote:
On Oct 3, 1:12 pm, Whata Fool wrote:

badID wrote:
On Oct 2, 5:11 pm, Whata Fool wrote:" Does Venus
really have a dark side where it is night time, and if so, how long is
the daylight, about 200 days? How many temperature probes have there
been, were they on the dark side?"

Do you want the links to show how ridiculous your posts are?

The questions you quoted have interesting answers,
why didn't you answer them for the benefit of full disclosure.

Is the reason you don't use a newsreader is having an
excuse to type in the quoted text with alterations?

Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)

The point is that venus has an atmosphere that traps a lot of the suns
energy, making the surface very hot around the entire planet. "It
appears that the surface temperature ranges from about 820 degrees to
nearly 900 degrees F. The average surface temperature is 847 degrees
F., hot enough to melt lead." (see below)

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/fsd/astro/venus.php
"NOAA's National Weather Service Weather Forecast Office
Sioux Falls, SD
VENUS
Venus is the second closest planet to our Sun at an average distance
67 million miles. It revolves around the Sun every 225 Earth days,
but its rotation takes 243 Earth days. One other interesting note is
that Venus rotates clockwise, the only planet in our solar system to
do so, and contrary to its own orbit around the Sun. Research suggests
that the "backward" rotation is caused by tides which are raised in
the thick atmosphere by the Sun, and with friction interaction between
the atmosphere and planet itself. It is hypothesized that these
interactions caused Venus's rotation to slow, stop, and then reverse.
This is somewhat similar to what is happening here on Earth, as our
Moon's pull on our oceans causes tides whose subsequent friction is
gradually slowing Earth's rotation. Other recent research suggests
that Venus' clockwise rotation was produced
by an extreme impact from a large body early in Venus' development, 4
to 5 billion years ago (similar to how a major impact created our Moon
from Earth). This large impact on Venus may have resulted in the
planet reversing its rotation if the blow was from the opposite
direction of its rotation. Venus is one of only three planets in our
solar system which has a perfect circular sphere (the other two being
Mercury and Pluto).
Atmosphere and Weather: Venus has a thick atmosphere made up almost
entirely of carbon dioxide. It also exerts a pressure 92 times higher
than the earth's, resulting in a pressure-cooker environment. Venus
is covered by dense clouds made up primarily of sulfuric acid. The
clouds are so thick it is impossible to see its surface without using
sophisticated radar systems. Imaging radar systems aboard the NASA
space probes Pioneer (1978) and Magellan (1990-1994) produced a map of
the Venusian surface. These systems also detected lightning,
hypothesizing that the lightning is generated in thick clouds around
35 miles above the surface. The surface is desolate and continent
like features exist complete with canyons, mountains, plains and
waterless oceans. The Venusian surface is pock-marked with a low
number of large craters along with volcanic rock and lava flows. It
appears that over 85% of the surface is covered by volcanic rock with
giant lava flows having flooded areas producing the plains. Research
suggests that some of these volcanoes have erupted within the past few
centuries and there is evidence that the entire planet was
"resurfaced" three to five hundred million years ago. The incident
visible and infrared spectrum from the Sun are major contributors to
the extremely hot temperatures on Venus, with the dense, carbon
dioxide atmosphere not letting the infrared rays escape back into
space. These temperatures resemble something more of a raging fire
due to an uncontrolled greenhouse effect which more than doubles the
temperature on the planet's surface. It appears that the surface
temperature ranges from about 820 degrees to nearly 900 degrees F.
The average surface temperature is 847 degrees F., hot enough to melt
lead. No wonder the ocean basins are "dry". At these temperatures
any water would evaporate nearly instantaneously.
However research from NASA's Ames Research Center suggests that liquid
water in the oceans and seas were prevalent on Venus for hundreds of
millions of years in earlier times. Due to Venus' immense pressure,
water could have existed with temperatures as warm as 200 to 300
degrees F. But that is still likely too hot to have sustained any
primitive life forms. As Venus continued to warm, any liquid water
was boiled off into the atmosphere. The Pioneer Spacecraft in December
1978 revealed very high winds aloft in its atmosphere, approaching
speeds of 200 mph. Along with the thick cloud cover, this could
explain why the night side of the planet has temperatures nearly the
same as the day side, as strong winds aloft transfer heat around the
globe. However it appears that the surface winds are very light. In
short, Venus is by far the hottest planet in our solar system, with a
very minimal diurnal temperature spread."

On sept 9 2:12 pm davee wrote in response to what a fools questions to
me below: "Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are
no competing differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like
our moon (although it may be illuminated at some time due to
rotation)"

On Oct 3, 1:12 pm, Whata Fool wrote: "The questions
you quoted have interesting answers, why didn't you answer them for
the benefit of full disclosure. Is the reason you don't use a
newsreader is having an excuse to type in the quoted text with
alterations?"

But what a fool had previously stated the following on oct 2 5:11
pm:"Does Venus really have a dark side where it is night time, and if
so, how long is the daylight, about 200 days? How many temperature
probes have there been, were they on the dark side?"


Now fool was basically asking me to provide a source, and i did, which
goes straight to the point, which is that venus has an atmosphere that
traps a lot of the suns energy, making the surface very hot around the
entire planet. "It appears that the surface temperature ranges from
about 820 degrees to nearly 900 degrees F. The average surface
temperature is 847 degrees F., hot enough to melt lead." (see below)
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/fsd/astro/venus.php
"NOAA's National Weather Service Weather Forecast Office
Sioux Falls, SD
VENUS
Venus is the second closest planet to our Sun at an average distance
67 million miles. It revolves around the Sun every 225 Earth days,
but its rotation takes 243 Earth days. One other interesting note is
that Venus rotates clockwise, the only planet in our solar system to
do so, and contrary to its own orbit around the Sun. Research suggests
that the "backward" rotation is caused by tides which are raised in
the thick atmosphere by the Sun, and with friction interaction between
the atmosphere and planet itself. It is hypothesized that these
interactions caused Venus's rotation to slow, stop, and then reverse.
This is somewhat similar to what is happening here on Earth, as our
Moon's pull on our oceans causes tides whose subsequent friction is
gradually slowing Earth's rotation. Other recent research suggests
that Venus' clockwise rotation was produced
by an extreme impact from a large body early in Venus' development, 4
to 5 billion years ago (similar to how a major impact created our Moon
from Earth). This large impact on Venus may have resulted in the
planet reversing its rotation if the blow was from the opposite
direction of its rotation. Venus is one of only three planets in our
solar system which has a perfect circular sphere (the other two being
Mercury and Pluto).
Atmosphere and Weather: Venus has a thick atmosphere made up almost
entirely of carbon dioxide. It also exerts a pressure 92 times higher
than the earth's, resulting in a pressure-cooker environment. Venus
is covered by dense clouds made up primarily of sulfuric acid. The
clouds are so thick it is impossible to see its surface without using
sophisticated radar systems. Imaging radar systems aboard the NASA
space probes Pioneer (1978) and Magellan (1990-1994) produced a map of
the Venusian surface. These systems also detected lightning,
hypothesizing that the lightning is generated in thick clouds around
35 miles above the surface. The surface is desolate and continent
like features exist complete with canyons, mountains, plains and
waterless oceans. The Venusian surface is pock-marked with a low
number of large craters along with volcanic rock and lava flows. It
appears that over 85% of the surface is covered by volcanic rock with
giant lava flows having flooded areas producing the plains. Research
suggests that some of these volcanoes have erupted within the past few
centuries and there is evidence that the entire planet was
"resurfaced" three to five hundred million years ago. The incident
visible and infrared spectrum from the Sun are major contributors to
the extremely hot temperatures on Venus, with the dense, carbon
dioxide atmosphere not letting the infrared rays escape back into
space. These temperatures resemble something more of a raging fire
due to an uncontrolled greenhouse effect which more than doubles the
temperature on the planet's surface. It appears that the surface
temperature ranges from about 820 degrees to nearly 900 degrees F.
The average surface temperature is 847 degrees F., hot enough to melt
lead. No wonder the ocean basins are "dry". At these temperatures
any water would evaporate nearly instantaneously.
However research from NASA's Ames Research Center suggests that liquid
water in the oceans and seas were prevalent on Venus for hundreds of
millions of years in earlier times. Due to Venus' immense pressure,
water could have existed with temperatures as warm as 200 to 300
degrees F. But that is still likely too hot to have sustained any
primitive life forms. As Venus continued to warm, any liquid water
was boiled off into the atmosphere. The Pioneer Spacecraft in December
1978 revealed very high winds aloft
in its atmosphere, approaching speeds of 200 mph. Along with the
thick cloud cover, this could explain why the night side of the planet
has temperatures nearly the same as the day side, as strong winds
aloft transfer heat around the globe. However it appears that the
surface winds are very light. In short, Venus is by far the hottest
planet in our solar system, with a very minimal diurnal temperature
spread."

Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)

The Earth does not need the moon to "spin it". Actually, tidal forces
by the moon act as a form of drag on the earth's rotation, as the moon
only orbits the earth once every 28 days. It's because of the Earth's
strong tidal action on the moon that the moon is now "locked" with one
side toward the earth, although it certainly didn't start out that
way.

Over time, the earth's rotation is slowing down due to the moon, and
over time the moon's orbit is gaining angular momentum from the earth,
which is putting it into a higher orbit.

Generally speaking, every planetary body comes into existence with
considerable rotation. Only if something acts to stop it, like tidal
forces from the sun, will the planet come to have a "dark side".

"Whata Fool" wrote
If one molecule of CO2 absorbs IR and re-emits it, then
what would keep any other molecule of CO2 from absorbing it?

Absolutely. So along the path out to space there are hundreds of instanes
of absorption nd
with each, absorption/emisson the 50% probability of the IR radiation being
sent downward.

The proces is well understoon an it is alled diffusion.


"Whata Fool" wrote
Nonsense, greenhouse theory is nothing like a blanket,
a blanket is the same as the glass in a greenhouse or like
insulation, preventing convection and reducing conduction, while
greenhouse theory involves EM.

Wrong again. The insulation is accomplihed the same way. By re-radiating
the radiation back down toward the person under the blanket.

Now blow away and gl learn some basic science - fool.

On Oct 11, 2:09 am, qzectb wrote:
Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)

I was comparing most other planets in our solar system with moons
against those
without those with moons appear to have far shorter rotational periods
than those without.

The Earth does not need the moon to "spin it". Actually, tidal forces
by the moon act as a form of drag on the earth's rotation, as the moon
only orbits the earth once every 28 days. It's because of the Earth's
strong tidal action on the moon that the moon is now "locked" with one
side toward the earth, although it certainly didn't start out that
way.

Would the Earth be spinning now if it did not have one?
The same should have applied to the Earth then if frictional forces of
the atmosphere were the only thing that causes these things, after all
it has been around 4.3 billions years since Earths creation.

Earth and Moon are a couplet pair that revolve around each other that
follow an average orbital path and not a planet that follows an
orbital path with a moon rotating around it.

Over time, the earth's rotation is slowing down due to the moon, and
over time the moon's orbit is gaining angular momentum from the earth,
which is putting it into a higher orbit.

Generally speaking, every planetary body comes into existence with
considerable rotation.
Why?

Is this something to do with relativity and the warping of spacetime
as gases compress
to solid objects over time? Or the changing permeability and
permitivity due to warping or what?

Only if something acts to stop it, like tidal
forces from the sun, will the planet come to have a "dark side".

davee wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:09 am, qzectb wrote:
Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)

I was comparing most other planets in our solar system

Are you planning on moving?

On Oct 12, 11:51 am, Window Licking Moron.With.A.Computer@Talk-n-
Dog..com wrote:
davee wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:09 am, qzectb wrote:
Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)
I was comparing most other planets in our solar system

Are you planning on moving?

If Sir Richard Bransen gets off his arse and gets virgin shuttle going
"Hell yes, one way ticket to the next sustainable habitable planet
please!"

On Oct 12, 12:11 am, davee wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:09 am, qzectb wrote: Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)

I was comparing most other planets in our solar system with moons
against those
without those with moons appear to have far shorter rotational periods
than those without.

That is more because there are comparatively few planets without
moons. If you looked at the spin rates of all the various known
asteroids you would find that despite being singletons they mostly
have fairly rapid rotation. It is a direct consequence of conservation
of angluar momentum when lumps of stuff collide and aggregate to form
a larger one. Exact head on collisions are rare - anything else and
there is necessarily some spin imparted.

Uranus has moons but is pretty oddball. The planets spin axis is in
the plane of the solar system.

The Earth does not need the moon to "spin it". Actually, tidal forces
by the moon act as a form of drag on the earth's rotation, as the moon
only orbits the earth once every 28 days. It's because of the Earth's
strong tidal action on the moon that the moon is now "locked" with one
side toward the earth, although it certainly didn't start out that
way.

Would the Earth be spinning now if it did not have one?

Yes. And it would be spinning quite a bit faster since without the
moons tidal friction acting for billions of years it would not be
losing 1.5ms per century from the day length. The fossil record shows
that 500MY ago the day length was about 22h with about 400 of them in
a year. It is estimated to have been around 6h at formation. eg

http://physics.fortlewis.edu/Astrono...ML/AT30706.HTM

The same should have applied to the Earth then if frictional forces of
the atmosphere were the only thing that causes these things, after all
it has been around 4.3 billions years since Earths creation.

The Earth behaves like a spinning top on near perfect friction free
bearings and would continue to spin for all eternity in the abscence
of any other external forces. Tidal drag from the suns gravitation
will also gradually slow its spin rate. And the sun has already
tidally locked the unfortunate Mercury. Wikipedias description is
quite good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking

Earth and Moon are a couplet pair that revolve around each other that
follow an average orbital path and not a planet that follows an
orbital path with a moon rotating around it.

Having a nice big moon makes the Earths axis of spin more stable and
stronger more variable tides which makes the place more habitable for
life but that is all.

Over time, the earth's rotation is slowing down due to the moon, and
over time the moon's orbit is gaining angular momentum from the earth,
which is putting it into a higher orbit.

Generally speaking, every planetary body comes into existence with
considerable rotation.

Why?

Conservation of angular momentum. Essentially to end up with exactly
zero net angular momentum requires a very special set of initial
conditions that are almost never satisfied.

The same reason that the ballerina spins faster when she folds her
arms in.

Regards,
Martin Brown

davee wrote:
On Oct 12, 11:51 am, Window Licking Moron.With.A.Computer@Talk-n-
Dog..com wrote:
davee wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:09 am, qzectb wrote:
Venus does not have moon to spin it like Earth, there are no competing
differential forces so yes it has a dark side just like our moon
(although it may be illuminated at some time due to rotation)
I was comparing most other planets in our solar system
Are you planning on moving?

If Sir Richard Bransen gets off his arse and gets virgin shuttle going
"Hell yes, one way ticket to the next sustainable habitable planet
please!"

Dress warm...

The Earth does not need the moon to "spin it". Actually, tidal forces
by the moon act as a form of drag on the earth's rotation, as the moon
only orbits the earth once every 28 days. It's because of the Earth's
strong tidal action on the moon that the moon is now "locked" with one
side toward the earth, although it certainly didn't start out that
way.

Would the Earth be spinning now if it did not have one?

Yes.

The same should have applied to the Earth then if frictional forces of
the atmosphere were the only thing that causes these things, after all
it has been around 4.3 billions years since Earths creation.

The combined angular momentum of the earth and atmosphere cannot
change in the absence of an exchange with an external body like the
sun or the moon. Thus, friction by the atmosphere cannot have any
lasting effect on the rotational speed of the earth (though it does
have a seasonal effect).


Earth and Moon are a couplet pair that revolve around each other that
follow an average orbital path and not a planet that follows an
orbital path with a moon rotating around it.

This is true of EVERY planet with moons. It is the center of gravity
of the planet-moon system that obeys Keppler's laws. Since our moon
is proportionally quite large, the effect is more noticeable than
with, say, Jupiter and its moons.


Generally speaking, every planetary body comes into existence with
considerable rotation.

Why?

Because it would be an amazing coincidence if the local angular
momentum of the gases and dust from which a planet formed were exactly
zero. And whatever angular momentum is present is expressed as a
faster rotation when the material condenses into something solid.

We know that the Milky way is a rotating galaxy. It follows that even
the average angular momentum of the materials found at any particular
point in the galaxy is non-zero and systematically of one particular
sign.

Is this something to do with relativity

No.

and the warping of spacetime
as gases compress

No.

to solid objects over time? Or the changing permeability and
permitivity due to warping or what?

No. Just basic classical mechanics of the kind that even Newton
understood.


This is the frustrating thing about "debating" AGW with the
skeptics ... they're vehement in their "scientific" objections to its
reality while at the same time often displaying amazing gaps in their
own understanding of science.

I don't remember which side 'davee' is on, so I don't know whether the
above applies to him or not.

It most certainly applies to many of the folks are who are, as I write
this, loudly disparaging Gore's Nobel Prize. Rush Limbaugh chief
among them.