Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.

We are talking about a temperature difference here of something less
than a degree Centigrade:

From Earth Observatory:

La Niña, the counterpart to El Niño, alters rainfall patterns over the
Pacific and Indian Ocean basins.

La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
much warmer than normal.

These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...3?img_id=17901

I see a reference to the equatorial Pacific, not exclusively the
southern hemispheric Pacific.

On Jan 22, 10:14 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.

We are talking about a temperature difference here of something less
than a degree Centigrade:

From Earth Observatory:

La Niña, the counterpart to El Niño, alters rainfall patterns over the
Pacific and Indian Ocean basins.

La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
much warmer than normal.

These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...ges.php3?img_i...

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.

We are talking about a temperature difference here of something less
than a degree Centigrade:

From Earth Observatory:

La Niña, the counterpart to El Niño, alters rainfall patterns over the
Pacific and Indian Ocean basins.

La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
much warmer than normal.

These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...3?img_id=17901

Please note the near-surface current that flows from the N. Pacific,
across Indonesia, into the Indian Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation

On Jan 23, 2:12 pm, David wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.

We are talking about a temperature difference here of something less
than a degree Centigrade:

From Earth Observatory:

La Niña, the counterpart to El Niño, alters rainfall patterns over the
Pacific and Indian Ocean basins.

La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
much warmer than normal.

These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...ges.php3?img_i....

Please note the near-surface current that flows from the N. Pacific,
across Indonesia, into the Indian Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation

Please note how near Peru this convective current gets. Venezuela.

What is that recalcitrant scion of democracy up to there I wonder. I
doubt he has much influence on a certain moneycrazy.

No matter what its chimp says.

Whatever the case the fact remains that the temperature difference is
only a fraction of one degree centigrade.

It is customary to link weather events in either hemisphere with the
currents of the surface water over which they flow.

Rightly or wrongly any egress of the Peruvian current across the
equatorial counter current leaves a lot to be desired in reference to
its effect on massive weather systems in the northern hemisphere.

Their root causes however, are a completely different thing. And of
course one of us has the answer to that.

Or not, as the case may be.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:14:17 -0800 (PST),
Weatherlawyer , in
wrote:
+ Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
+ north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.

Well, actually the warm pool exists on both sides of the equator.

+ La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
+ surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
+ to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
+ Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
+ much warmer than normal.
+
+ These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
+ patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
+ rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
+ Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.

So, for both La Niña and El Niño the warm pool is offset from an
"average" position. During El Niño, it shifts to the east so that it's
closer to the western hemisphere. And during La Niña, it shifts to the
west, so that it's closer to Asia/Northwest Australia.

And the convective thunderstorms develop over the warm pool. In turn,
they act to anchor the subtropical jetstream, which changes its
position in the mid-latitudes, and thus influences the larger weather
pattern.

So, during La Niña you get more rain in Manila than you would expect,
and less over Peru. And during El Niño, you get more rain in Peru than
you would expect, and less in Manilla.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

On Jan 23, 9:13 pm, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

So, for both La Niña and El Niño the warm pool is offset from an
"average" position. During El Niño, it shifts to the east so that it's
closer to the western hemisphere. And during La Niña, it shifts to the
west, so that it's closer to Asia/Northwest Australia.

And the convective thunderstorms develop over the warm pool. In turn,
they act to anchor the subtropical jet-stream, which changes its
position in the mid-latitudes, and thus influences the larger weather
pattern.

So, during La Niña you get more rain in Manila than you would expect,
and less over Peru. And during El Niño, you get more rain in Peru than
you would expect, and less in Manilla.

If only things were that simple. They may work like that on your
computer networks but the earth is an analogue machine and subject to
different vagaries.

But if the world works according to Aggian principles, what you have
described is a change in orders of magnitude from a a slightly warmer
pool to a stream of low pressure, high altitude air.

All through the power of a thunderstorm.
No offence but you should get a job vetting scripts for Star Trek.

Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jan 23, 2:12 pm, David wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
Someone tell me how a warm pool in the south Pacific can affect the
north Indian without the ability to cross the equator.
We are talking about a temperature difference here of something less
than a degree Centigrade:
From Earth Observatory:
La Niña, the counterpart to El Niño, alters rainfall patterns over the
Pacific and Indian Ocean basins.
La Niña develops when stronger-than-average trade winds push the warm
surface waters of the equatorial Pacific west. Since cold water rises
to replace the warm water, La Niña leaves the eastern and central
Pacific Ocean much cooler than normal, while the western Pacific is
much warmer than normal.
These anomalies in sea surface temperature are mirrored in rainfall
patterns, with warmer-than-normal temperatures resulting in enhanced
rainfall. In general, La Niña brings unusually heavy rain to the West
Pacific, Indonesia, parts of South east Asia, and northern Australia.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...ges.php3?img_i...
Please note the near-surface current that flows from the N. Pacific,
across Indonesia, into the Indian Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation

Please note how near Peru this convective current gets. Venezuela.

What is that recalcitrant scion of democracy up to there I wonder. I
doubt he has much influence on a certain moneycrazy.

No matter what its chimp says.

Whatever the case the fact remains that the temperature difference is
only a fraction of one degree centigrade.

It is customary to link weather events in either hemisphere with the
currents of the surface water over which they flow.

Rightly or wrongly any egress of the Peruvian current across the
equatorial counter current leaves a lot to be desired in reference to
its effect on massive weather systems in the northern hemisphere.

Their root causes however, are a completely different thing. And of
course one of us has the answer to that.

Or not, as the case may be.

What is the volume of the troposphere?

How much energy is required to raise the temperature of that much gas
0.5 degrees C?

On Jan 24, 2:59 am, David wrote:

Rightly or wrongly any egress of the Peruvian current across the
equatorial counter current leaves a lot to be desired in reference to
its effect on massive weather systems in the northern hemisphere.

Their root causes however, are a completely different thing. And of
course one of us has the answer to that.

Or not, as the case may be.

What is the volume of the troposphere?

How much energy is required to raise the temperature of that much gas
0.5 degrees C?

La Nina is a cold spot. I forgot. Sorry.

Which begs another question for another poster here who mooted its
connection to thunderstorms. Do equatorial water breed thunderstorms?
Anyone?

By the by, am I the only one here who thinks the original premise is
codswallop? I must have missed out on all that careful conditioning
that seems to have had such a persuasive effect on the rest of you.

Still, never mind eh?
I'm here now. Let's see if I can fire up another brain cell.

****. I thought I had a spare. It turned out to be ear wax.

Anyway, whilst I still have some resonance in the one I am using:

If low pressure areas are warm pressure areas... no that's not right.
Seeing as warm water imbues the cyclonic spells with.. hmm... that's
a tricky one. Anticyclones are the warm ones aren't they...

I think I had best quit this thing.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:34:47 -0800 (PST),
Weatherlawyer , in
wrote:
+ On Jan 23, 9:13 pm, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

+ If only things were that simple. They may work like that on your
+ computer networks but the earth is an analogue machine and subject to
+ different vagaries.

Yeah, no. That's the *observed* behaviour.

+ But if the world works according to Aggian principles, what you have
+ described is a change in orders of magnitude from a a slightly warmer
+ pool to a stream of low pressure, high altitude air.
+
+ All through the power of a thunderstorm.
+ No offence but you should get a job vetting scripts for Star Trek.

Maybe you should take some meteorology courses? no, that would be too
much like, I dunno, logical or something.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:41:41 -0800 (PST),
Weatherlawyer , in
wrote:

+ Which begs another question for another poster here who mooted its
+ connection to thunderstorms. Do equatorial water breed thunderstorms?
+ Anyone?

Why don't you go look at satellite images, then overlay that with
oceanography charts showing areas of upwelling (cold surface water)
and downwelling (warm surface water)?

Think you'll find a correlation? if that's a "yes", the question
becomes "what is the cause of this correlation?"

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.