"JoeSoap" JoeSoap@godknowswhere wrote in message
...
Nick G wrote:
Will

My water bill this year is over £800 and just 25% of that is for actual
water.

We are going onto a water meter as I have worked out it will cut our water
bill in half. You say that only 25% of you bill is for water. If you have a
meter installed your sewage costs will be ~90% of your water charges
(usage). The ~10% is allowed for water that will not go back into the sewer.
So if you are not extravagant with your use of water, you should see quite a
saving on that huge £800 water bill of yours.

If you visit the South West Water's website, there is a page that allows you
to roughly calculate what your water costs will be if you have a meter
installed.
________________
Nick G
Exe Valley, Devon
50 m amsl


Share a bath/shower, use rain water (if you have any) to flush the loo.
Don’t wash the car or water the garden with a hose. There I saved a
million gallons already.
Joe.

But that's just it, I never water the garden, don't need to with all the rain we
get!
I might investigate a meter but the SW is still the most expensive area in the
country for water.

Will.
--

JoeSoap wrote:

Don’t wash the car

What *is* this washing-the-car concept that people keep talking about?
--
Steve Loft, Glenlivet. 200m ASL
Weather and webcam:
http://www.livet.org.uk/weather

"Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:
"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote :

The water supplied by the water companies is used up in three
broad ways: by domestic users, by commercial users, and in
leaks from the network. From memory, 16 years ago, the
proportions were something like 60% to industry, etc,
35% to domestic, 15% in leaks (but my memory may be
faulty ... in any case the proportions will have changed since then).

Thanks Philip, that really backs up what I sensed you were wanting to say
but really couldn't on a BBC programme, and the fact you are paid to do
the weather forecast. Thank goodness some in the know are prepard not to
toady.

According to Water UK, and with the proviso that this is a
water industry site and therefore not entirely independent, the
proportions in two recent years (I assume Oct-Sept) a

1998-99 Total supply 17,800 million gallons
Domestic 48%, Commercial 28%, Leaks 24%
2001-02 Total supply 18,000 million gallons
Domestic 48%, Commercial 26%, Leaks 26%

So my memory was faulty because I doubt that commercial use of
water has fallen that much in a decade (although it will have fallen
somewhat as water-expensive industrial processes have become
obsolete). Both were mixed summers, 2002 rather wetter than 1999.

It is, however, not clear whether central government and local government
use (i.e. municipal sports fields, parks, gardens, etc, etc) is included in
the domestic or the commercial figure.

One other interesting stat ... on average metered households use
10% less per head than non-metered households. But the
figures vary widely geographically. It should also be taken into
account that metered homes do not form a random statistical
population ... IOW there are other factors which may skew the
data.

Philip

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
...

"Lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

I still think it's wasted but blimey we have so much of the stuff.
Remember 2001? When Sussex had terrible flooding problems.
I remember Philip Eden in his radio five forecast, I think just over a
week ago said something very telling. Of course Philip please intervene
here in the sake of accuracy, but if my memory serves me well was
something along the lines of that there had been a shortfall of winter
rain but only in a couple of areas- south east?
In fact the rest of Britain had ample. Was that correct Philip?

Let me summarise the points I have tried to make:

1) Rainfall statistics are spun by the water industry with the collusion
of the EA and the MO. We are told that it has been the driest 15
month period for a century (the caveats are there, but rather
hidden away, so it's hardly a surprise that journalists don't see them).
The data are spun in several ways:

a) It's 16 months now, but the analysis was put together before the
end of Feb so that the heavy Feb rainfall in Kent, Surrey and Sussex
was excluded.

b) It's only a very narrow zone, averaging 30km wide, stretching roughly
from Basingstoke to Maidstone, where serious records have been
broken. At one or two sites in this zone 2005 was the driest calendar
year since 1921 (i.e. 85 years ago, not 100). You can always find
one or two sites in a notably dry or wet period which are rather more
extreme, statistically, than the general pattern. Thus, if we concede that
1 or 2 water companies may be seriously affected, the way the data are
presented allows, encourages even, other water companies to jump on
the "we have a shortage" bandwagon.

c) Apart from SE England, 2003 was a drier year than 2005, as were
1997, 1996, 1991 and 1990, so although rainfall has been below
average over most of England and Wales, the shortfall has only been
noteworthy in the southeastern corner. (2004 was actually drier than
2005 over most of northern and western Britain).

d) The present dry spell began in November 2004, so to make the
statistics look more extreme, the water industry analysis compares the
dry spell only to other 15-month periods *beginning in November *.
If you compare it with 15-month periods beginning in *any* month,
1995-97 wins hands down every time. On that occasion below
average rainfall persisted from March 1995 to October 1997 inc,
a period of 32 months, so we've got a long way to go to emulate that.

B) The other aspect of the so-called drought that worries me is
the targeting of domestic users. I am far from up-to-date on these
issues, but I did research the subject back in 1990, in another
"record drought". (It seems that we manage the "worst since
records began" about every 4 or 5 years ...)

The water supplied by the water companies is used up in three
broad ways: by domestic users, by commercial users, and in
leaks from the network. From memory, 16 years ago, the
proportions were something like 60% to industry, etc,
35% to domestic, 15% in leaks (but my memory may be
faulty ... in any case the proportions will have changed since then).
Commercial users are charged more than domestic users, and
some pay much more to ensure an uninterrupted supply. Plugging
leaks is also expensive.

Thus in a time of low rainfall it is more economical for the
water companies to restrict supplies to domestic users. The only
recourse *we* have is to make a fuss, to reject the spun
statistics which are designed to scare us out of our profligacy
(I don't dispute that we are profligate, that metering is sensible,
etc, etc, but it's a cheap, two-faced trick to try to frighten the
general public by cherry-picking the statistics to present an
image of imminent desertification of southern England. They should
face the issue of metering head on, rather than blaming the weather).

No doubt there's a website somewhere that gives up-to-date
statistics w.r.t. commercial/domestic/leakage proportions.

C) Building a million or more new homes in the Southeast is
hardly designed to help.

Philip Eden
Well that's John Prescott for you . Miles and miles of Social Housing not
that he or any of his cabinet colleagues plan to live there, most of it is
done in spite.
As for the water situation as you say spin spin spin.
You know that clap trap about UKMO working with health authorities Primary
Care Trust and GP practises issuing forecast.
I would suggest that with the recent figures on MRSA and the health Services
financial crisis that seems to be bubbling below the surface, that the NHS
has far bigger fish to fry than warning old Mrs Miller to put an extra
blanket on the bed as the outlook looks chilly.
What ever next Dan Corbett getting his gesticulating hands in, with some
Long Range Gynaecology ? The mind boggles.

Holly, in France wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:

.26 of an eurence is a lot cheaper than the bottled stuff I drink.

(I just realised why the Euro will never catch on in Britain. Nobody's
going to walk around with a couple of c/euro/nts in their pocket.)

This should be a simple sum but I can't believe we have got it right. 26
cents/litre for tap water? We can buy it in a bottle for 15 cents here.

260 cents/1000
26 /100
2.6/10
..26/1
No, I got it write I do believe.

That's about as far as I got in maths at school. When we got to bodmas,
Beeching made my life more interesting elsewhere. (Whose side was he
on, BTW? He sounds very Thatcheric.)

Philip Eden wrote:

One other interesting stat ... on average metered households use
10% less per head than non-metered households. But the
figures vary widely geographically. It should also be taken into
account that metered homes do not form a random statistical
population ... IOW there are other factors which may skew the
data.

I should imagine a major factor is that those seeing profit in it would
opt in to metering.

I believe that water companies could also force people to have them if
they ran up a bill they couldn't pay. Needless to say, substantial a
proprtion of these would be in broken homes where one or two family
members were no longer domicile.

Perhaps the figures might be open to massage if the companies can
select -or at least target the type of home or regions to install
meters. And use those figures unqualified to lobby or advertise?

(Always think the very worst and you won't be dissapointed. That goes
double in politics. Beware accountants, politicians and big business.)
..
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(.And journalsts. Sorry.)

Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
"Elaine Jones" wrote in message
...
Quoting from message
.com
posted on 18 Mar 2006 by Tudor Hughes
I would like to add:


All water should be metered just like gas and electricity.

Try saying that in Wales where local rainfall is sufficient for local
needs but valleys were flooded and people had to leave their homes in
order that water could be supplied to English urban communites.

--
.ElaineJ. Briallen Gifts/Cards catalogue at http://www.briallen.co.uk
.Virtual. Corn Dollies, Cards, Coasters, Mousemats, Kids' Tshirts
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.


Elaine . I as a Jenkins feel you have a point. Considering that Wales and
Scotland are heavily subsidised by the English tax payer I would like to see
Wales break totally from England thus putting more money into Lawrence
Jenkins pocket who by the way happens to live in London -England.

You know Elaine there's a lovely Scottish chap where I work he heads the IT
Dept. He's a typical sort of lefty guardian reader type you know hates the
English, the Americans and increasingly the Jews. But nonetheless he a very
intelligent lovely man.

He confessed to me and my colleagues last week that he's beginning to hate
going back home, as all he hears is hatred for the English, bile upon pile
of historically inaccurate crap, that he finds through the actual experience
of day to day life in London is totally inaccurate.

If you want to keep viewing history through Mel Gibson's eyes that that's
down to you, but please send any complaints to William the ******* of
Normandy I think you'll find many of your gripes linked to him.

In addition I'd like to see that Welsh speaking TV channel taken of our
screens, as I don't speak Welsh and never will do.
One more thing what's going to happen to the lottery funded (all Welsh
lottery ticket sales? not)
Millennium stadium once the new Wembley stadium is up and running. It would
be good for storage.

What's the matter, Lawrence? Were you scared by a big red
dragon when you were young, or something? You don't half talk a load
of rubbish sometimes.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

"Tudor Hughes" wrote in message
ups.com...

Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
"Elaine Jones" wrote in message
...
Quoting from message
.com
posted on 18 Mar 2006 by Tudor Hughes
I would like to add:


All water should be metered just like gas and electricity.

Try saying that in Wales where local rainfall is sufficient for local
needs but valleys were flooded and people had to leave their homes in
order that water could be supplied to English urban communites.

--
.ElaineJ. Briallen Gifts/Cards catalogue at http://www.briallen.co.uk
.Virtual. Corn Dollies, Cards, Coasters, Mousemats, Kids' Tshirts
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.


Elaine . I as a Jenkins feel you have a point. Considering that Wales and
Scotland are heavily subsidised by the English tax payer I would like to
see
Wales break totally from England thus putting more money into Lawrence
Jenkins pocket who by the way happens to live in London -England.

You know Elaine there's a lovely Scottish chap where I work he heads the
IT
Dept. He's a typical sort of lefty guardian reader type you know hates
the
English, the Americans and increasingly the Jews. But nonetheless he a
very
intelligent lovely man.

He confessed to me and my colleagues last week that he's beginning to
hate
going back home, as all he hears is hatred for the English, bile upon
pile
of historically inaccurate crap, that he finds through the actual
experience
of day to day life in London is totally inaccurate.

If you want to keep viewing history through Mel Gibson's eyes that that's
down to you, but please send any complaints to William the ******* of
Normandy I think you'll find many of your gripes linked to him.

In addition I'd like to see that Welsh speaking TV channel taken of our
screens, as I don't speak Welsh and never will do.
One more thing what's going to happen to the lottery funded (all Welsh
lottery ticket sales? not)
Millennium stadium once the new Wembley stadium is up and running. It
would
be good for storage.

What's the matter, Lawrence? Were you scared by a big red
dragon when you were young, or something? You don't half talk a load
of rubbish sometimes.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.


Maybe it's because you've had the good fortune to retire early and you only
have to mix with musicians. You know I've always detested patriotism since
I was a lad in fact yet here we have the Guardian reading middle
classes -probably your are one - whinging on all the time about other
peoples cultures and how they've been oppressed throughout history by the
English.

This whole **** about the Welsh and the Scottish assembly who vote on
English law in Parliament and yet have autonomy on their own laws. Frankly
is a **** take. When Scotland says no care home costs for the Elderly in
Scotland yet agree with the elderly selling their homes in England to pay
for theirs as well as pay for Scotland's is unjust and plain wrong. No doubt
the name Tudor Hughes reverberates through the valleys.

Well Tudor I guess my name has some Welsh links, but when I get a whiff of
this "hate the English" lefty diatribe it's nowadays like a RED rag to a
bull.

But when Elaine says

"needs but valleys were flooded and people had to leave their homes in order
that water could be supplied to English urban communities."

What do you expect.

As I initially started by saying I always hated blind patriotism , well I
did it's only since the Labour party came to power and encouraged self
interest groups politics as some sort of sham vote garnering exercise that
I'm now thinking "hold on are the working English being given the three card
trick?" and frankly they are. I don't want to the George cross any more than
I want to see the red dragon, it's divisive and a retrograde step.

The social Marxist left in this country do nothing but exploit the decent
tax paying community whilst all the time whipping up hatred and bitterness
amongst self interest groups based on general falsehoods.

Last weekend Ken Livingstone strolled around the west end of London with the
Education Minister for Northern Ireland Martin McGuinness. The education
minister how many schoolchildren's dads deaths has he been involved with. As
for Ken he thinks nothing of taking rate/tax payers money to pay for the
Patrick day event and yet does/says absolutely nothing-him and that **** Ian
Blair about the endemic crime on London's streets.

Anyhow completely sidetracked if Elaine wants to imply that the English are
ripping of the Welsh than I or anybody has the right to differ,
I will concede however that it shouldn't be in this NG so I'll say no more
except if you think that's rubbish what about Elaine's remarks.

And I won't be coming to hear you blow your own trombone anymore.

"MCC" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:48:31 +0000 (UTC), Nick G wrote:

Will

My water bill this year is over £800 and just 25% of that is for
actual
water.

We are going onto a water meter as I have worked out it will cut our
water
bill in half. You say that only 25% of you bill is for water. If you
have a
meter installed your sewage costs will be ~90% of your water charges
(usage). The ~10% is allowed for water that will not go back into the
sewer.
So if you are not extravagant with your use of water, you should see
quite a
saving on that huge £800 water bill of yours.

If you visit the South West Water's website, there is a page that allows
you
to roughly calculate what your water costs will be if you have a meter
installed.

We've been on a water meter for the past 4½ years here in Cornwall.
There's
just my wife and I - no kids - but I reckon our water bill is half of what
it would be if we were unmetered.

we have been metered for years, no option being a farm. because we don't do
mindless and soul destroying things like washing cars or watering lawns our
domestic useage is pretty low anyway, and we don't pay the sewage bit
because we have our own septic tank

Jim Webster

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
news
JoeSoap wrote:

Don’t wash the car

What *is* this washing-the-car concept that people keep talking about?
--

man after my own heart ;-))

Jim Webster