wrote in message Many ground stations
already use
wireless from a remote sensor, so my idea is to send the measuring
device up on a balloon MAYBE ON A STRING for re-use.

.... ah, the days of the Cardington BALTHUM! All the useful stuff has
gradually been removed. Your idea is a good one - how do we fit in with
ATC regulations if balloons are flying to 1000 ft or so? Round here
(Bracknell) we'd interfere with the helicopter traffic.

Martin.

--
FAQ & Glossary for uk.sci.weather at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.weather/uswfaqfr.htm
and
http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/metindex.htm

"Martin Rowley" m wrote in
message ...

... well Jack, I can hear the bones of old forecasters rotating in graves
up and down the country now, as you revisit problems that caused many of
them (and those of us still extant) to lose much sleep over the years!

The literature is stuffed full of 'techniques' for forecasting the point
when fog would clear - based on empirical studies from the 1940's onwards.
Many of these were 'station' studies on RAF fields up and down the east &
south of England (often not published or only internally circulated) and
although we never had enough radio-sonde data to go round, we certainly
had more than now. Even with a dense network of data (surface) and radio
sondes, the techniques often assumed a 'British Standard Radiation Fog'
model, and usually worked well given this (i.e. fog forms evening or
overnight, light winds, no change in gradient and/or moisture advection
etc).
snip

And, lest we forget, this morning's fog was not radiation fog ... what
with a 15+kn northerly blowing through it.

Philip

wrote in message
ups.com...
The fog here lifted to low stratus at about 17C and that remains the
dewpoint now.

Lack of soundings is a real pain in many situations. The stratus
dispersal problem could be helped by using very low balloon ascents
rather than the full monty - say to 1,000 feet only. The most crucial
data as I understand it is the temperature profile. Surely it would be
a relatively cheap matter to use a lightweight digital thermometer
coupled via wireless network? Many ground stations already use
wireless from a remote sensor, so my idea is to send the measuring
device up on a balloon MAYBE ON A STRING for re-use. Alternatively -
here we go back two centuries - use a kite. (Wouldn't work in nil wind
as is often the situation in fog).

Jack, just wondering if you're aware of the AMDAR programme which provides
routine temperature data from aircraft :-
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research...dar/index.html
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research.../aircraft.html

Jon.

Oh dear, and there was me thinking you just subtracted an hour from
midday for each month away from mid-winter.....December 1200,
January/November 1100, February/October 1000 etc... ;-)

wrote in message
ups.com...

Oh dear, and there was me thinking you just subtracted an hour from
midday for each month away from mid-winter.....December 1200,
January/November 1100, February/October 1000 etc... ;-)


I've always found it a good rule of thumb. Can be a bit dodgy in December
and January though.

Jon.

Jon O'Rourke wrote:

Jack, just wondering if you're aware of the AMDAR programme which provides
routine temperature data from aircraft :-
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research...dar/index.html
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research.../aircraft.html

Yes I did know but unless I'm missing a vital link, I can't see how we
mortals can access the data.

Jack

Martin Rowley wrote:
Your idea is a good one - how do we fit in with
ATC regulations if balloons are flying to 1000 ft or so? Round here
(Bracknell) we'd interfere with the helicopter traffic.

Radiosondes are not considered hazardous in the sense that no specific
data is given to aircrew as to the location during the ascent. I
narrowly avoided one over Belfast years ago, but I guess it wouldn't
have done much harm (to us) had we hit it.

Lightweight balloons on "strings" rather than WW2 type barrage balloons
probably wouldn't be any more of a hazard than are birds.

But no doubt some legal beagle would get his teeth into it and make a
fortune out of a non-existent hazard. It's not that I am cynical of
course:-)

Jack

wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes I did know but unless I'm missing a vital link, I can't see how we
mortals can access the data.

Jack

Hmmm, had a feeling you'd say that. According to
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/sib/res...b/acars+amdar/
the airlines unfortunately don't allow it's general use.

Jon.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes I did know but unless I'm missing a vital link, I can't see how we
mortals can access the data.

Jack

Hmmm, had a feeling you'd say that. According to
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/sib/res...b/acars+amdar/
the airlines unfortunately don't allow its general use.

Jon.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes I did know but unless I'm missing a vital link, I can't see how
we
mortals can access the data.

"Jon O'Rourke" wrote in message
...

Hmmm, had a feeling you'd say that. According to
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/sib/res...b/acars+amdar/
the airlines unfortunately don't allow it's general use.


.... actually, the data in raw form are available and freely. Examples
below:....

From ....
http://www.met.fsu.edu/rawdata/aircraft/
Display hourly collective, then use 'Find' (or similar) on 'AMDAR' and
look for bulletins under the CCCC = EGRR (Exeter)

location and scroll through bulletins; not ideal and I've been trying to
find a site that allows you to plot the data, but as yet no luck. (Also,
no dew point data which would be more useful than just the temperature
profile)

Martin.

UDEU02 EGRR 161514

AMDAR 1615

DES EU5593 5215N 00430E 161502 F026 PS191 131/002 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5215N 00431E 161502 F023 PS189 039/003 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5214N 00435E 161504 F020 PS193 184/004 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5214N 00436E 161504 F017 PS202 247/003 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5215N 00438E 161504 F014 PS210 115/001 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5215N 00439E 161505 F011 PS219 173/001 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5216N 00440E 161505 F009 PS228 169/002 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5216N 00442E 161505 F006 PS237 172/001 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5217N 00443E 161506 F003 PS248 198/000 TB/ S011=

DES EU5593 5217N 00444E 161506 F000 PS260 248/009 TB/ S011=

488

UDEU02 EGRR 160906 RRB

AMDAR 1608

UNS EU2399 5115N 00007W 160848 F029 PS160 093/012 TB/ S111=

UNS EU2399 5114N 00005W 160848 F032 PS152 117/007 TB/ S111=

UNS EU2399 5112N 00004W 160849 F048 PS115 069/010 TB/ S111=

ASC EU2399 5109N 00003W 160850 F063 PS105 009/017 TB/ S011=

UNS EU2399 5103N 00000E 160851 F081 PS080 026/014 TB/ S111=

UNS EU2399 5059N 00000E 160852 F099 PS047 042/023 TB/ S111=

ASC EU2399 5053N 00001E 160853 F118 PS010 059/018 TB/ S011=

ASC EU2399 5050N 00001E 160854 F138 MS042 067/020 TB/ S011=

ASC EU2399 5045N 00002E 160854 F159 MS087 058/013 TB/ S011=

ASC EU2399 5044N 00002E 160855 F165 MS090 054/008 TB/ S011=

176

UDEU02 EGRR 160605 RRA

AMDAR 1605

ASC EU0720 5558N 00426W 160552 F000 PS100 039/005 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5558N 00427W 160553 F003 PS105 047/009 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5558N 00427W 160553 F003 PS105 050/009 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5558N 00428W 160553 F006 PS107 054/014 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5558N 00428W 160553 F009 PS105 068/015 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5557N 00428W 160553 F012 PS100 066/014 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5557N 00429W 160553 F014 PS095 070/015 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5557N 00429W 160553 F017 PS100 074/013 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5557N 00429W 160553 F020 PS112 122/004 TB/ S011=

ASC EU0720 5556N 00430W 160553 F023 PS112 132/006 TB/ S011=