1600

Well what an eventful walk!

Nine of us set off from Venford reservoir planning to do a 15 mile circuit.
The leader warned us that we had 12 river crossings including the Erme, Plym
and Avon, thankfully not the Dart as I expected. We also had to cross the
dangerous Red Lake mire, OK If you know the way across and the weather is
dry. I informed everyone of the circa 80mm rainfall in the past couple of
days and we all decided to give it a go but take great care. So we set off.

The omens right from the start were not good. A nice grass path through
bracken was under water and we crossed numerous unmarked 'new' streams. The
first proper stream was a 5 foot wide torrent and impossible to cross, so we
had to head up hill and eventually found a place to jump across. I had to
carry the dog which made that exercise tricky. We crossed two more torrents,
one a close shave with me nearly falling backwards into water carrying the
dog, but I was OK. The next one was the tricky one near Child's Tomb. The
leader found a place to cross leaping onto a half submerged rock and then
leaping to the other side. I didn't fancy it carrying the dog, others were
reluctant too, so we all searched for somewhere else to cross. After 10
minutes looking it was clear that that was the only place to cross. It
didn't look too bad on reflection and we were all up for it. The second lady
reached the rock in the middle and lost balance and tumbled back first into
waist deep water. Our leader jumped in and grabbed hold of her using all his
strength to prevent both of them being swept downstream. The rest of us then
heaved them both out of the water. If he hadn't jumped in her face would
have gone under as she was shocked and rolling over. Unfortunately, he tore
her shoulder, possibly dislocated in doing so.

We were then faced with a decision. The lady could walk but was cold and in
shock and could not move her arm. It was a long way to Princetown (the
nearest town), going back we had to cross the streams again or walk a long
way round uphill, the only option was to ring for help. We tucked her up in
a survival bag and made a wind break with rucksacks, fortunately the showers
were keeping away. Two of us then recce'd a possible landing site for the
helicopter. We phoned in our grid ref. and the red Devon Air ambulance
arrived in 10 minutes from Exeter and she was taken to hospital. The
paramedic was superb and the pilot was very skillful landing in rocky
terrain. He told us we had done the right thing and commended us on our
equipment. Needless to say we abandoned the walk and decided to take a
higher longer route back to our cars, but nevertheless we still had walked
10 miles. Ironically the rivers were going down noticeably by the time we
got back.

Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

Will
--

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:24:40 +0100, "Will Hand"
wrote:

...
Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

You knew the risks and it's probably reaction to the successful outcome.

Well done!

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

"Alan White" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:24:40 +0100, "Will Hand"
wrote:

...
Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome
power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

You knew the risks and it's probably reaction to the successful outcome.


It's easy to be wise after the event but given Will's description of what
appears to be ever-increasing danger, perhaps the leader should have
abandoned the walk at an earlier point?
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:04:46 +0100, "Col"
wrote:

It's easy to be wise after the event but given Will's description of what
appears to be ever-increasing danger, perhaps the leader should have
abandoned the walk at an earlier point?

Without being there, it's really impossible to say unless you know the
walking history of the leader and the capabilities and experience of the
members of the group allied to the conditions at the time.

We've been in some very hairy situations and got away with it. We've
also been in situations which by no stretch of the imagination could be
called hazardous and I've broken a leg, twice.

One thing that Will has said which I would heartily endorse. Paramedics,
and I have some experience now, are truly wonderful.

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Alan White" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:24:40 +0100, "Will Hand"
wrote:

...
Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome
power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

You knew the risks and it's probably reaction to the successful outcome.


It's easy to be wise after the event but given Will's description of what
appears to be ever-increasing danger, perhaps the leader should have
abandoned the walk at an earlier point?
--

Hi Alan, many thanks for those kind words.

Col, yes a difficult call. But remember we are all adults and are all very
experienced walkers. No way would we have led youngsters or inexperienced
people on a walk like this. Everyone knew the score when we set off. Yes it
was difficult going, but we knew that and was part of the personal
challenge. Ironically had that half submerged stone not been there we would
have probably turned back on a long route anyway. Last winter there was a
similar walk on the north moor in teeming rain, the leader (a different
person) altered the route for the conditions, today it was less easy to do
that given where it was.

BTW Devon Air ambulance is a charity and I have always contributed in the
past, needless to say a larger donation will be heading their way tomorrow.

Will
--

Will Hand wrote:
1600

Well what an eventful walk!

Nine of us set off from Venford reservoir planning to do a 15 mile circuit.
The leader warned us that we had 12 river crossings including the Erme, Plym
and Avon, thankfully not the Dart as I expected. We also had to cross the
dangerous Red Lake mire, OK If you know the way across and the weather is
dry. I informed everyone of the circa 80mm rainfall in the past couple of
days and we all decided to give it a go but take great care. So we set off.

The omens right from the start were not good. A nice grass path through
bracken was under water and we crossed numerous unmarked 'new' streams. The
first proper stream was a 5 foot wide torrent and impossible to cross, so we
had to head up hill and eventually found a place to jump across. I had to
carry the dog which made that exercise tricky. We crossed two more torrents,
one a close shave with me nearly falling backwards into water carrying the
dog, but I was OK. The next one was the tricky one near Child's Tomb. The
leader found a place to cross leaping onto a half submerged rock and then
leaping to the other side. I didn't fancy it carrying the dog, others were
reluctant too, so we all searched for somewhere else to cross. After 10
minutes looking it was clear that that was the only place to cross. It
didn't look too bad on reflection and we were all up for it. The second lady
reached the rock in the middle and lost balance and tumbled back first into
waist deep water. Our leader jumped in and grabbed hold of her using all his
strength to prevent both of them being swept downstream. The rest of us then
heaved them both out of the water. If he hadn't jumped in her face would
have gone under as she was shocked and rolling over. Unfortunately, he tore
her shoulder, possibly dislocated in doing so.

We were then faced with a decision. The lady could walk but was cold and in
shock and could not move her arm. It was a long way to Princetown (the
nearest town), going back we had to cross the streams again or walk a long
way round uphill, the only option was to ring for help. We tucked her up in
a survival bag and made a wind break with rucksacks, fortunately the showers
were keeping away. Two of us then recce'd a possible landing site for the
helicopter. We phoned in our grid ref. and the red Devon Air ambulance
arrived in 10 minutes from Exeter and she was taken to hospital. The
paramedic was superb and the pilot was very skillful landing in rocky
terrain. He told us we had done the right thing and commended us on our
equipment. Needless to say we abandoned the walk and decided to take a
higher longer route back to our cars, but nevertheless we still had walked
10 miles. Ironically the rivers were going down noticeably by the time we
got back.

Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

Will
Will

From your description, it sounds like she was saved "more by luck than
judgment".

It's easy to be critical of a situation when one isn't there but from
your description, and your remark about the number of river crossings
you intended making, I would have thought that the party should have
been carrying a short walking rope.

Had the party had a rope, it's likely that the near fatality (If he
hadn't jumped in her face would have gone under) would have been
completely averted.

Nevertheless, you did well to prevent the situation escalating and well
done in sharing the tale - Many would have kept quiet about that one!!!

In the climbing club, we have a saying - "An epic a day keep boredom at
bay"!!! You certainly weren't bored with that epic.

The important thing is that you learn from the incident and share your
new knowledge with others.

Cheers

Neil

You were lucky that someone actually understood a grid reference. A
year or two back, I phoned the police about an incident and the
operator hadn't a clue what a grid reference was. She kept asking
what the name of the road was. I hadn't any idea what the locals
might call a minor country lane but knew the grid ref from my OS map;
the operator seemed never to have heard of a grid reference. The long
and short of this story was that when I wrote to the appropriate
senior police officer, I got the reply that the operator should have
understood what a grid reference was and that a "retraining programme
has been instigated"

Jack

"Neil" wrote in message
...
Will Hand wrote:


snip

From your description, it sounds like she was saved "more by luck than
judgment".

It's easy to be critical of a situation when one isn't there but from your
description, and your remark about the number of river crossings you
intended making, I would have thought that the party should have been
carrying a short walking rope.

Had the party had a rope, it's likely that the near fatality (If he
hadn't jumped in her face would have gone under) would have been
completely averted.

Nevertheless, you did well to prevent the situation escalating and well
done in sharing the tale - Many would have kept quiet about that one!!!

In the climbing club, we have a saying - "An epic a day keep boredom at
bay"!!! You certainly weren't bored with that epic.

The important thing is that you learn from the incident and share your new
knowledge with others.

Cheers

Neil

Neil, I agree, in a few days we will take stock and see what lessons we can
take from the experience. Ironically I talked about possibly taking a rope
yesterday, in the end I left it at home. The lady who fell in has done all
the Scottish Munros (including those on Skye) and has walked in many
mountainous parts of the world, it just shows that sometimes you are only a
short step from death whoever you are!

Thanks again for your helpful advice.

Will
--

On Jul 6, 5:43*pm, Neil wrote:
Will Hand wrote:
1600

Well what an eventful walk!

Nine of us set off from Venford reservoir planning to do a 15 mile circuit.
The leader warned us that we had 12 river crossings including the Erme, Plym
and Avon, thankfully not the Dart as I expected. We also had to cross the
dangerous Red Lake mire, OK If you know the way across and the weather is
dry. I informed everyone of the circa 80mm rainfall in the past couple of
days and we all decided to give it a go but take great care. So we set off.

The omens right from the start were not good. A nice grass path through
bracken was under water and we crossed numerous unmarked 'new' streams. The
first proper stream was a 5 foot wide torrent and impossible to cross, so we
had to head up hill and eventually found a place to jump across. I had to
carry the dog which made that exercise tricky. We crossed two more torrents,
one a close shave with me nearly falling backwards into water carrying the
dog, but I was OK. The next one was the tricky one near Child's Tomb. The
leader found a place to cross leaping onto a half submerged rock and then
leaping to the other side. I didn't fancy it carrying the dog, others were
reluctant too, so we all searched for somewhere else to cross. After 10
minutes looking *it was clear that that was the only place to cross. It
didn't look too bad on reflection and we were all up for it. The second lady
reached the rock in the middle and lost balance and tumbled back first into
waist deep water. Our leader jumped in and grabbed hold of her using all his
strength to prevent both of them being swept downstream. The rest of us then
heaved them both out of the water. If he hadn't jumped in her face would
have gone under as she was shocked and rolling over. Unfortunately, he tore
her shoulder, possibly dislocated in doing so.

We were then faced with a decision. The lady could walk but was cold and in
shock and could not move her arm. It was a long way to Princetown (the
nearest town), going back we had to cross the streams again or walk a long
way round uphill, the only option was to ring for help. We tucked her up in
a survival bag and made a wind break with rucksacks, fortunately the showers
were keeping away. Two of us then recce'd a possible landing site for the
helicopter. We phoned in our grid ref. and the red Devon Air ambulance
arrived in 10 minutes from Exeter and she was taken to hospital. The
paramedic was superb and the pilot was very skillful landing in rocky
terrain. He told us we had done the right thing and commended us on our
equipment. Needless to say we abandoned the walk and decided to take a
higher longer route back to our cars, but nevertheless we still had walked
10 miles. Ironically the rivers were going down noticeably by the time we
got back.

Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.

Will

Will

*From your description, it sounds like she was saved "more by luck than
judgment".

It's easy to be critical of a situation when one isn't there but from
your description, and your remark about the number of river crossings
you intended making, I would have thought that the party should have
been carrying a short walking rope.

Had the party had a rope, it's likely that the near fatality (If he
hadn't jumped in her face would have gone under) would have been
completely averted.

Nevertheless, you did well to prevent the situation escalating and well
done in sharing the tale - Many would have kept quiet about that one!!!

In the climbing club, we have a saying - "An epic a day keep boredom at
bay"!!! You certainly weren't bored with that epic.

The important thing is that you learn from the incident and share your
new knowledge with others.

Cheers

Neil- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Devon Air Ambulance is my favourite charity. I've collected for it
on many occasions and I have a collection "tin" at work. You just
never know when you might need it and the work of the Devon Air
Ambulance is superb. It has saved many lives and will continue to do
so. I'm glad it was there for you.

There but for the grace of someone else really. The high moor is a
dangerous place even in fine weather. It's remoteness makes it so. You
were very well prepared, very aware of the dangers and like you say,
it's a part of the challenge. I've been in very similar situations and
always got away with it; I've been lucky, that's all. Your party was
unlucky, but everybody lives to walk another day! I'll bet it puts
none of you off walking on the moor in rough weather and nor should
it.

Better luck next time!

Paul

Will Hand wrote:
"Col" wrote in message
...
"Alan White" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:24:40 +0100, "Will Hand"
wrote:

...
Strangely I feel quite emotional by it all now, but that's the awesome
power
of nature for you. Thank goodness we got her out of the water.
You knew the risks and it's probably reaction to the successful outcome.

It's easy to be wise after the event but given Will's description of what
appears to be ever-increasing danger, perhaps the leader should have
abandoned the walk at an earlier point?
--

Hi Alan, many thanks for those kind words.

Col, yes a difficult call. But remember we are all adults and are all very
experienced walkers. No way would we have led youngsters or inexperienced
people on a walk like this. Everyone knew the score when we set off. Yes it
was difficult going, but we knew that and was part of the personal
challenge. Ironically had that half submerged stone not been there we would
have probably turned back on a long route anyway. Last winter there was a
similar walk on the north moor in teeming rain, the leader (a different
person) altered the route for the conditions, today it was less easy to do
that given where it was.

BTW Devon Air ambulance is a charity and I have always contributed in the
past, needless to say a larger donation will be heading their way tomorrow.

Will


I'm pleased that everyone is safe. In my younger days I used to enjoy
hill walking and can fully understand the call of the challenge. Some of
my most memorable walks included difficult sections with exposed tracks
or large screes. In your shoes (or boots) I would have gone as well. The
only suggestion I have is to get a bigger dog; one that can jump the
streams on his own. Either that or invest in one of those papoose (I
think they are called) baby carriers. A small dog should be able to fit
in one (if they don't make one for a dog).

--
Howard Neil