"Dave Cornwell" wrote in message
...

--------------------------------------
Thank God they showed the tornado off the Cornish coast and didn't call it
the dreaded m*ni tornado else we'd have had the SW lot and the tornado lot
on our case ;-)
Dave

It looked more like a funnel cloud to me :-p

Jon.

"Tom Bennett" wrote in message
...

The fact is that London brought to a standstill is big news. It's
quite pathetic that it should happen in the way it did on Monday but
no-one is prepared to spend the money to prepare for that once-in-two-
decades-event and no-one down here really believes that these sorts of
things can possibly happen - until they do - and then they're never
going to happen "in quite that way", ever again. That also leads to
incredibly ramshackle planning arrangements.

There was a measured article on the news the other day showing how
Moscow copes with winter weather. Proper metal sudded snow tyres
and contraptions to remove snow from the streets and presumably dump
it somewhere.
The point made was that it wouldn't be worth London making such
investement as the equipment would only be used every 20 years,
so the odd day where the headlines scream 'economy loes x billions' is
still less expensive than guading against any eventuality.
It's not that we can't cope, it's not *worth* us coping.

It's unfair to compare LOndon with Moscow or Stockholm, of
course they can cope, they have to.
You have to compare against cities with a similar liklihood of
such a snow event. There must be a swathe of the US where such
events, like London, are part of the climate, well how do they cope?
Though they did say that the buses ran in Paris and I can't imagine
such an event is all that more likely there than in London......

I was personally involved in official rescue operations in the east
London floods of late Oct 2000, that had last happened, I'm told, in
the 1920s. As I stood at 22.00 hrs and watched floodwater fill a
street by coming UP through the street gullies (as the tide came in on
the Thames and blocked the egress of floodwater coming DOWN the storm
drains), and then begin to inundate nearby houses, I rang the control
centre and asked for sandbags. There was a stunned silence on the
other end of the phone. Eventually, the Controller came on the line:
"Is anyone standing nearby who can overhear?" he asked. "No, I said.
Why do you ask?". "Well" he said, very quietly, "We've got lots of
sandbags .............. but no sand". I, and my colleagues, stood
with the Fire Brigade doing absolutely nothing as maybe 40 houses were
flooded that evening. Sandbags might not have prevented that but at
least we'd have felt we were trying to do something useful and the
residents (who never once remonstrated with us, by the way) might have
thought so, too.

Sandbags but no sand?
I'd laugh, but it isn't really very funny is it?
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 at 20:12:56, Col wrote in
uk.sci.weather :

Now you can dismiss this as the ranting of a bitter Northerner if you
wish, but hear me out...

I am getting increasingly irritated by the media's response that yesterday's
snow was the 'Worst in the UK for almost 20 years'.
Actually it wasn't.
It was the worst in London and selected areas of the SE, mainly to
the south of London and especially the North Downs.
So only a tiny part of the country had it's 'Worst for almost 20 years'.

I'm assuming the '18 years ago' fall they refer to was that of 7th/8th
Feb 1991, as that was worse (here at least) than that of Dec'90.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

On 3 Feb, 22:52, "Dave Cornwell"
wrote:
"Joe Egginton" wrote in message

...



Col wrote:
Now you can dismiss this as the ranting of a bitter Northerner if you
wish, but hear me out...

I am getting increasingly irritated by the media's response that
yesterday's
snow was the 'Worst in the UK for almost 20 years'.
Actually it wasn't.
It was the worst in London and selected areas of the SE, mainly to
the south of London and especially the North Downs.
So only a tiny part of the country had it's 'Worst for almost 20 years'.

I'm not complaining about the amount of media coverage given to this
event, clearly this area has millions of people and the disruption caused
was very severe.

What annoys is the casual assumption that because *London* was involved,
the rest of the UK somehow had to be affected in the same manner.
Had a similarly sized area in NW England been affected by a polar low
giving an equivalent amount of snow, nobody would have claimed it
was the UK's worst snowfall in almost 20 years.
It would have been reported as merely the worst snowfall in NW England
for 20 years.

That is our burden living in the provinces.

--
Joe Egginton
Wolverhampton
175m asl

--------------------------------------
I do agree - but you know what the media's like. Do we have to drag it up
every bloody time there is some different to usual weather down here. We are
not spoilt like you Northerners. Thank God they showed the tornado off the
Cornish coast and didn't call it the dreaded m*ni tornado else we'd have had
the SW lot and the tornado lot on our case ;-)

Actually, I didn't even know the 'mini tornado' had been on the main
news. (I did see 14cm of snow near Land's End, actually just above St
Just, reported.) The sea surface was disturbed below it, but I
wouldn't call it a water spout. For those vaguely interested the
tornado was filmed from Chapel Carn Brea above Lands End airport. I
think they only reason it got on the news was as a by-product of the
snow reporting.

I once saw 2 water spouts in Mount's Bay, just about a mile out to
sea, they were very impressive.

Funnel clouds to seem common down here, I've seen several, couple of
photos at www.turnstone-cottage.co.uk/Aug2006Storms.PDF when there
were funnel clouds on consecutive days. Also a few tornados have done
some damage in recent years, near Zennor, near St. Buryan, and on the
Lizard.

Graham
Penzance

www.turnstone-cottage.co.uk/

For those vaguely interested the tornado


Sorry, I meant funnel cloud, perhaps I should get a job with the
press.

Graham

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 07:14:20 -0000, Col wrote:

There was a measured article on the news the other day showing how
Moscow copes with winter weather. Proper metal sudded snow tyres

Trouble is studded tyres knacker the road surface unless there is a decent
covering of snow. Proper winter tyres would be better but they are a soft
compound and wear rather quickly when it's warm (only recomended with the
temperature consistently below 7C) and how many people want to have a
spare set of wheels and tyres or have the abilty to actually change 'em.

and contraptions to remove snow from the streets and presumably dump
it somewhere.

They have to remove it, temperature is below freezing all the time, no
shoving it to the side and waiting for a thaw in a couple of days time.

The point made was that it wouldn't be worth London making such
investement as the equipment would only be used every 20 years,

They need some equiment and stores but the balance between what is a
justified expense and what is extrafigant is very debateable. No point in
having snow blowers in London or any urban area come to that but a few
trucks that can be fitted with ploughs and some diggers to hoik snow into
said trucks to dump it in local parks or other open spaces is worth while
and cheap. Such things can be used for other tasks through the summer. You
still need proper gritters of course.

A good thought through, regulary revised and multi level plan would also
be a good idea. So the roads to/from bus stations and the bus routes
themselves are the ones kept clear when a big fall does happen.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Col wrote:

Now you can dismiss this as the ranting of a bitter Northerner if you
wish, but hear me out...

I am getting increasingly irritated by the media's response that
yesterday's snow was the 'Worst in the UK for almost 20 years'.
Actually it wasn't.
It was the worst in London and selected areas of the SE, mainly to
the south of London and especially the North Downs.
So only a tiny part of the country had it's 'Worst for almost 20 years'.

I'm not complaining about the amount of media coverage given to this
event, clearly this area has millions of people and the disruption caused
was very severe.

What annoys is the casual assumption that because *London* was
involved,
the rest of the UK somehow had to be affected in the same manner.

My sentiments exactly Col. Unfortunately this is the way the UK works.
Just listen to a weather forecast on something like Absolute radio ex.
Virgin: it's pathetic. I'm tempted to do one of thse distorted maps
reflecting people's interest ... the SE would be the size of France

Tom Bennett wrote:
SNIP

I was personally involved in official rescue operations in the east
London floods of late Oct 2000, that had last happened, I'm told, in
the 1920s. As I stood at 22.00 hrs and watched floodwater fill a
street by coming UP through the street gullies (as the tide came in on
the Thames and blocked the egress of floodwater coming DOWN the storm
drains), and then begin to inundate nearby houses, I rang the control
centre and asked for sandbags. There was a stunned silence on the
other end of the phone. Eventually, the Controller came on the line:
"Is anyone standing nearby who can overhear?" he asked. "No, I said.
Why do you ask?". "Well" he said, very quietly, "We've got lots of
sandbags .............. but no sand". I, and my colleagues, stood
with the Fire Brigade doing absolutely nothing as maybe 40 houses were
flooded that evening. Sandbags might not have prevented that but at
least we'd have felt we were trying to do something useful and the
residents (who never once remonstrated with us, by the way) might have
thought so, too.

There was a form of enquiry, afterwards, but IMO it glossed over the
issues. I've no reason to believe that, with public finances and
politics still heavily involved in all this, anything much will ever
really change.


- Tom.

A nasty case of SNAFU !

On 3 Feb, 20:12, "Col" wrote:

I am getting increasingly irritated by the media's response that yesterday's
snow was the 'Worst in the UK for almost 20 years'.
Actually it wasn't.
It was the worst in London and selected areas of the SE, mainly to
the south of London and especially the North Downs.
So only a tiny part of the country had it's 'Worst for almost 20 years'.

It'll be interesting to compare when everywhere but London gets snow
in the next couple of days (as it seems to be unfolding - most of the
weather warnings for the SE now dropped).

Having said that - the media gets bored of things quickly so there
could be the element of snow being old news so don't expect to see as
much reporting on it...

Richard