Why does the weather flow west to east?

I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.

Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.
What?

In message
,
Weatherlawyer writes
Why does the weather flow west to east?

It only flows west to east in some latitudes (and in some latitudes only
at some times of the year).

I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

Coriolis force is the usual explanation. Air starts off at latitude X
moving with the same velocity at the earth's surface at that latitude.
To the degree it retains that velocity by the time it's got to latitude
Y it's no longer has the same velocity as the earth's surface at that
latitude. That difference becomes a westerly deviation for polewards
flowing air, and an easterly deviation for equatorwards flower air.

You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.

Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.
What?


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...

Why does the weather flow west to east?

I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.

Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.

What?

Weather flows west to east, ultimately, because the atmosphere is warmer in
lower latitudes than in higher. As a result of this, the atmosphere in low
latitudes is in an expanded state so that, at height, there is more air
above a given level at low latitudes than at high. This means that, again
at height, pressure is higher at low latitudes. So the bulk of the
atmosphere moves from west to east (low pressure on its left), carrying the
surface features with it.
In the southern hemisphere two reversals, latitude and Coriolis, cancel out,
so that there too, surface features generally move from west to east.
There are parts of the world (eg the south coast of Arabia) where it is
actually warmer on the poleward side in summer (only) due to the fierce heat
of the interior, and there, disturbances move from east to west with an
easterly jet.

Ian Bingham,
Inchmarlo, Aberdeenshire.

On Nov 12, 7:21*pm, "Ian Bingham"
wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" *wrote in message

...





Why does the weather flow west to east?
I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.
To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.
It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.
I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.
You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.
Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.

What?

Weather flows west to east, ultimately, because the atmosphere is warmer in
lower latitudes than in higher. *As a result of this, the atmosphere in low
latitudes is in an expanded state so that, at height, there is more air
above a given level at low latitudes than at high. *This means that, again
at height, pressure is higher at low latitudes. *So the bulk of the
atmosphere moves from west to east (low pressure on its left), carrying the
surface features with it.
In the southern hemisphere two reversals, latitude and Coriolis, cancel out,
so that there too, surface features generally move from west to east.
There are parts of the world (eg the south coast of Arabia) where it is
actually warmer on the poleward side in summer (only) due to the fierce heat
of the interior, and there, disturbances move from east to west with an
easterly jet.

Ian Bingham,
Inchmarlo, Aberdeenshire.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This has all become rather mid- latitude biased. With weather being
embedded in the westerly propagating atmospheric waves.

What about the easterly waves in low latitudes? The ones that spawn
those rather intensive weather features called hurricanes?

Len
Wembury, SW Devon

On 12/11/2012 11:17, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Why does the weather flow west to east?

I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.

Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.
What?



Very simple really. The earth spins from west to east, so the weather
rushes ahead to give the forecasters a reasonable chance of getting it
right by having the weather get there before the earth does.

Well, it makes sense to me. :-)

jim, Northampton

On Nov 12, 11:20*pm, Adam Lea wrote:
On 12/11/12 20:32, Len Wood wrote:





On Nov 12, 7:21 pm, "Ian
wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" *wrote in message

....

Why does the weather flow west to east?
I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.
To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.
It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.
I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.
You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.
Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.

What?

Weather flows west to east, ultimately, because the atmosphere is warmer in
lower latitudes than in higher. *As a result of this, the atmosphere in low
latitudes is in an expanded state so that, at height, there is more air
above a given level at low latitudes than at high. *This means that, again
at height, pressure is higher at low latitudes. *So the bulk of the
atmosphere moves from west to east (low pressure on its left), carrying the
surface features with it.
In the southern hemisphere two reversals, latitude and Coriolis, cancel out,
so that there too, surface features generally move from west to east.
There are parts of the world (eg the south coast of Arabia) where it is
actually warmer on the poleward side in summer (only) due to the fierce heat
of the interior, and there, disturbances move from east to west with an
easterly jet.

Ian Bingham,
Inchmarlo, Aberdeenshire.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This has all become rather mid- latitude biased. With weather being
embedded in the westerly propagating atmospheric waves.

What about the easterly waves in low latitudes? The ones that spawn
those rather intensive weather features called hurricanes?

Len
Wembury, SW Devon

That is due to the African Easterly Jet, which occurs because the Sahara
is hotter than the equator, reversing the N/S temperature gradient in
this region. The vertical lapse rate in the Sahara is greater on average
than at the equator so at some height above sea level (around 700 mb I
think) the N/S temperature gradient reverses so the jet reaches a peak
at this altitude then gets weaker higher up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And the typhoons?

Len

On 12/11/12 20:32, Len Wood wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:21 pm, "Ian
wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

...





Why does the weather flow west to east?
I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.
To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.
It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.
I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.
You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.
Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.

What?

Weather flows west to east, ultimately, because the atmosphere is warmer in
lower latitudes than in higher. As a result of this, the atmosphere in low
latitudes is in an expanded state so that, at height, there is more air
above a given level at low latitudes than at high. This means that, again
at height, pressure is higher at low latitudes. So the bulk of the
atmosphere moves from west to east (low pressure on its left), carrying the
surface features with it.
In the southern hemisphere two reversals, latitude and Coriolis, cancel out,
so that there too, surface features generally move from west to east.
There are parts of the world (eg the south coast of Arabia) where it is
actually warmer on the poleward side in summer (only) due to the fierce heat
of the interior, and there, disturbances move from east to west with an
easterly jet.

Ian Bingham,
Inchmarlo, Aberdeenshire.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This has all become rather mid- latitude biased. With weather being
embedded in the westerly propagating atmospheric waves.

What about the easterly waves in low latitudes? The ones that spawn
those rather intensive weather features called hurricanes?

Len
Wembury, SW Devon

That is due to the African Easterly Jet, which occurs because the Sahara
is hotter than the equator, reversing the N/S temperature gradient in
this region. The vertical lapse rate in the Sahara is greater on average
than at the equator so at some height above sea level (around 700 mb I
think) the N/S temperature gradient reverses so the jet reaches a peak
at this altitude then gets weaker higher up.

On Nov 12, 2:15*pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message
,
Weatherlawyer writes

Why does the weather flow west to east?

It only flows west to east in some latitudes (and in some latitudes only
at some times of the year).











I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

Coriolis force is the usual explanation. Air starts off at latitude X
moving with the same velocity at the earth's surface at that latitude.
To the degree it retains that velocity by the time it's got to latitude
Y it's no longer has the same velocity as the earth's surface at that
latitude. That difference becomes a westerly deviation for polewards
flowing air, and an easterly deviation for equatorwards flow[ing] air.

You mean Coriolis Effect.
It is not a force.

And gases diffuse with pressure and heat making a mockery of any
inertial values imputed to it.

Research into particulates used as shock absorbers show extremely
complex pyramid effects:

http://ej.iop.org/images/0034-4885/7...f04_online.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ransmision.svg

Neither of which caters for the massive inputs from electrical energy
released at the tropopause by the creation of ice. (Nor for that
matter the shadow and albedo effects.)

On Nov 12, 11:40*pm, Len Wood wrote:
On Nov 12, 11:20*pm, Adam Lea wrote:
On 12/11/12 20:32, Len Wood wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:21 pm, "Ian
wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" *wrote in message
...

Why does the weather flow west to east?
I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.
To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.
It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.
You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.
Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.

What?

Whilst the following seems to imply an answer to some of my questions
it does in fact fall quite a way short of any of them:

The atmosphere is warmer in lower latitudes.
Thus the atmosphere has more air
at low latitudes than at high.
So the bulk of the atmosphere moves from west to east
(low pressure on its left), carrying the surface features with it.

In the southern hemisphere latitude and Coriolis, cancel out,

I know modern meteorology relies heavily on this Coriolis business for
explanations. It seems daft to me that an absence of force can have so
much force but I must bow to superior knowledge.

I find it amazing that the law escaped Newton. I would have thought
that such an inertial effect would have appealed to him as he mentions
several times the then fairly recently formulated weight of the
atmosphere.

so that there too, surface features generally move from west to east..

Bouncing along as gently as a balloon in an early 1960's French film
yet blowing hard enough to whip the skin of a penguin's penis.

The south coast of Arabia is warmer on the poleward side in summer
disturbances move from east to west with an easterly jet.

Is that the exception that proves the rule or the one that throws a
spanner in the works?

What about the easterly waves in low latitudes? The ones that spawn
those rather intensive weather features called hurricanes?

That is due to the African Easterly Jet, which occurs because the Sahara
is hotter than the equator, reversing the N/S temperature gradient.

I'm sorry but your flow doesn't go.
Not least among reasons is the torpor of the tropics which is a
massive margin of 1016 millibars until it is disturbed by self
contained adiabatic disturbances travelling east to west.

The vertical lapse rate in the Sahara is greater on average
than at the equator so at some height above sea level,
the N/S temperature gradient reverses so the jet reaches a peak
at this altitude then gets weaker higher up.

And the typhoons?

Since the tropical storm seasons rely very much on the size of the
cyclones in the corridor between the three southern continents around
the Antarctic...

And these appear to be vortices shed by the von Karman phenomena...

And these are controlled completely by the extent of the ice
surrounding the polar continent...

None of which "causes" the initiating winds to flow from the western
coastlines to the eastern ones...

We still have this initial problem, to wit:

Why does the weather flow west to east?

On Nov 12, 11:34*pm, jbm wrote:
On 12/11/2012 11:17, Weatherlawyer wrote:









Why does the weather flow west to east?

I've been looking at Karman and Bernoulli and all that stuff to get
some idea why the weather dissipates the way it does overland.

To me it just appears vortex shedding and fairly simple convergence/
divergence/convergence/divergence at the west/eastern shores of the
continents.

It goes round and round, eventually ending up at either pole as per
von Karman principles. But (assuming upper levels rotate in the same
direction) there is no real explanation to the direction.

I ruled out Coriolis Effect for two reasons:
1. It is not a force and the west winds are absolute forces, nothing
else but.
2. If it were a phenomenon, Newton would have found it first.

You'd think the heat source would push air eastwards. The fact that it
does happen in some latitudes "occasionally" is immaterial as this
"occasionally" business seems to rely on total calm -which could
actually be seen as proof that the winds aught to be travelling east
to west in ideal conditions.

Which obviously means something is pushing it the other way.
What?

Very simple really. The earth spins from west to east, so the weather
rushes ahead to give the forecasters a reasonable chance of getting it
right by having the weather get there before the earth does.

Well, it makes sense to me.

How does it see where it is going at night when the supposed cause is
switched off?