On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:41:53 UTC+1, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to 80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness

The most expensive inconsistent energy on the planet, the only thing consistent about them is the lies and mistruths about the tag 'Free Energy'.

On Saturday, 26 March 2016 08:00:35 UTC, Alastair wrote:
The Scot, James Watt, got us all burning fossil fuels. Will his descendants lead us all into kicking the habit?
http://grist.org/news/scotland-close...d-power-plant/

It is man's misuse of his resources that is causing all our problems. If we could find a way of working together on things we would all enjoy our lives much more.

It was Lord Shrewsbury(?) and the surveyor/engineer he employed at the start of the Industrial Revolution that got us all burning coal. Without that we would have to have produced iron by burning down forests; or lose future wars to people like Adolf Hitler -as Napoleon was once viewed here.

That was as it turned out a no brainer, not just because of the profits involved. It is generally considered the right decisions that you win a war you get involved in and you can't do that being nice.

Sometimes (as we have so easily seen on this forum) some people won't be persuaded to desist in unwarranted behaviour. When that happens you have to make a decision about how far you are willing to go to sort it out. Most have decided to leave rather than bother.

All it really takes is to switch them out of your life. Often this is impossible. You for instance are not unreasonable and you are as certainly as I can establish not a liar. Such people are beneath contempt and we should refrain from dealing with them. But that seldom happens.

All men are liars, Dawlish for example being in my opinion, particularly venal.

On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to 80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's
undergraduate mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray)
and guess what? - the An Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current (aha!) thinking on power generation they will
be replaced. Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

--
George in Swanston, Edinburgh, 580'asl
www.swanstonweather.co.uk
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk

On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:55:56 UTC+1, George Booth wrote:
On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to 80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's
undergraduate mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray)
and guess what? - the An Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current (aha!) thinking on power generation they will
be replaced. Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

--
George in Swanston, Edinburgh, 580'asl
www.swanstonweather.co.uk
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk

Don't mention fracking Alistair will go potty, no he demands nothing less than 'hair shirt' sustainable energy. The skin irritation itching releases enormous amount of sustainable energy in an attempt to scratch.

Next in line is a vegetarian diet of pulses and your own personal turbine located behind the sporran.

"George Booth" wrote in message
...
On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to
80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question
is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's undergraduate
mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray) and guess what? - the An
Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current (aha!) thinking on power generation they will be replaced.
Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

Can of worms coming up!!!
Phil

On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:30:57 UTC+1, George Booth wrote:

As Jim says the coal was also supplied from the
large open cast mines. A very polluting power station according to SEPA.

Pollution is a matter of opinion. The problem is that when money and politics are involved looking after one's own backyard depends on what you are willing to put up with and what your neighbours let you get away with when you are rich and powerful you can even get away with murdering chilren by the classroomful.

Lord Robens for example the darling of Harold Wilson was too busy being invested with praise from rich and famous and powerful men to go to handle the slaughter/rescue reparation of Aberfan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred...fan_ Disaster

After the Clean Air Act and the birth of environmentalism the Aberfan disaster was the start of militant activity of the greenies.

However if you ever looked around you in the days when we had coal and wood fires -even today with gas chimneys on roofs, you can see that the most inhospitable environments are easily capable of producing plant life.

Whether it is worth the bother of using a commodity depends how clean or dirty you need to be.

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here.
They've certainly had a windy couple of years.
The question is what is their working life?

The real question is are they an alternative. If they are more productive than the OP stated that shouldn't be hard to prove.

Can they produce the pwer when you need it and can they do so profiably is the other. The working life depends on how much you are willing to spend on maintainance. With Aircraft these days there is no limit partly because they have to be in tip top condition at all times when in use.

With motor cars they only last as long as they don't cost more to repair than to replace. The reasoning being that improvements since the original design make upgrading more sensible, reliability being the other deciding factor.

In between you have stuff like ambulances which cost so much to kit out that keeping it in good repair is not a deciding factor since it has to be in good repair at all times the same as an airliner.

You can get away with a car so long as it isn't dangerous. If the police stop you for a defective light they generally allow you to go home in the car to get it fixed. If it has defective brakes or no insurance, not so much.

With a nuclear power station on the other hand they cost so much to repair and the profitability is so badly affected that the temptation is to tell porkies and ignore alarms.

And with coal mines they will let spoil heaps build up dangerously because large companies ESPECIALLY government run ones will ignore anything they can, because that is how governments work.

Consider they way the French government handled that whistle-blower in the news recently. Force-marched to prison and left in a state of torture while they all go on holiday.

It'sot just the French who can do that. Does anyone remember Caulder Hall?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire

On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:41:53 UTC+1, philgurr wrote:

The question is what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life
of 20 years and some are now already more than
half-way through this. What happens in 20 years?

Logically they will be replaced when improvements are most profitable/money is available/****wits let them.

****wits being the people who mistakenly forced the closure of nuclear power plants in Southern California not long ago.

The obvious improvements being less unsightly (although I think they are impressive) and less noisy, although siting them alongside a motorway is not a bad idea.

I imagine enclosing them inside a casing, rather like jet engines are, would increase their performance at the expense of increasing their weight but they will be significantly less noisy.

Such a design might be beneficial if it could make them useful in strong winds currently they have to be switched off and parked in high winds so all that energy is lost.

But is that a bad thing?
What does wind do besides blow?
God doesn't design things like that for no other purpose than to see it happen.

On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:55:56 UTC+1, George Booth wrote:
On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to 80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's
undergraduate mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray)
and guess what? - the An Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current thinking on power.
Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

Coal deteriorates as natural gas so they had better hurry. I wonder why god put a more or less impervious cap on coal seams?

The problem with fracking is that it may cause earthquakes. Is that better than reducing the local massage effect, that strong winds have on land.

Sometimes I am amazed at the ability of morons to make decision or over-rule the better qualified. But usually I am not surprised by either.

On Sunday, 27 March 2016 13:04:33 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
On Sunday, 27 March 2016 12:55:56 UTC+1, George Booth wrote:
On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to 80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's
undergraduate mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray)
and guess what? - the An Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current (aha!) thinking on power generation they will
be replaced. Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

--
George in Swanston, Edinburgh, 580'asl
www.swanstonweather.co.uk
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk

Don't mention fracking Alistair will go potty, no he demands nothing less than 'hair shirt' sustainable energy. The skin irritation itching releases enormous amount of sustainable energy in an attempt to scratch.

Next in line is a vegetarian diet of pulses and your own personal turbine located behind the sporran.

Stop being so stupid.

On 27/03/2016 13:21, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...
On 27/03/2016 12:41, philgurr wrote:
"George Booth" wrote in message
...

Snip

Wind turbines, plenty of them seen from here. Started counting one clear day, got to
80
and rather lost interest. They've certainly had a windy couple of years. The question
is
what is their working life?

Planning applications usually give a working life of 20 years and some
are now already more than half-way through this. A more important
point is what happens when the 20 years is up? Will they be left as rusting
monuments or replaced by even larger turbines?

Phil
40 miles N. of Inverness



Thanks Phil. I was looking at the latest OS 1:50000 map of my 1970's undergraduate
mapping area between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne (nr Inveraray) and guess what? - the An
Suidhe Wind Farm with 23 turbines.

I suspect, given current (aha!) thinking on power generation they will be replaced.
Perhaps fracking is the way to go for Scotland?

Can of worms coming up!!!
Phil



Light touch paper and stand clear did cross my mind.

--
George in Swanston, Edinburgh, 580'asl
www.swanstonweather.co.uk
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk