John Hall wrote:
In article ,
Col writes:

Autumn has truly arrived when 20C can't reasonably be expected whatever
the conditions and I can't comfortably wear shorts any more.

I'm still wearing them today (but only just!) so it must still be summer


My mind's boggling at what you must look like only just wearing shorts.


If Col is anything like me, well past his prime, it's most certainly not
a pretty sight ! ;-)

Martin Rowley wrote:
"John Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to use this measure, wouldn't it mean that in many
recent years autumn wouldn't have begun in the south till the second
half of October?


... yes. In recent years (compared to when I was a nipper), I have had
difficulty in regarding September as an 'autumnal' month.

Martin.




I September is like March, June and December, they are very fuzzy
months when it comes to the weather that occurs in them.
For instance September, can be generally a extension of the summer, or
it can be the autumn cum-early or it can be summery, starting off like
summer, but gradually slipping into autumn for the final week.

Of course there is an whole spectrum of what a particular month or
season is like.

It is not good to try and generalise what a particular month or season
is like. Obviously the human brain likes to catagorise so that we can
find some order in the universe we live in. But I think there is not a
stereotypical type September or any month or season come to that matter.

It is all very subjective, and we all have our own stereotypes to what
each month or season is like, and whatever anyone says, will be there
own value judgement what a particular month or season is like, that is
not wrong or right, it is just the way each person sees what a month or
season is like.

Joe
Wolverhampton

"John Hall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Col writes:
Autumn has truly arrived when 20C can't reasonably be expected whatever
the conditions and I can't comfortably wear shorts any more.

I'm still wearing them today (but only just!) so it must still be summer

My mind's boggling at what you must look like only just wearing shorts.


Ha ha.... I see what you mean

Today is at the very limit of the days on which I am prepared to go
bare-legged. And that's in knee length shorts as well. My usual summer
attire consists of much shorter shorts than that!

I overheat easily and like to keep cool

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co....rPictures.html

"Jack Harrison" wrote in message
m...
In S England, there always seems to be a date when it can be said
"autumn has arrived". This date varies from one year to the next of
course, but by remarkably little. (a week perhaps?). The onset of
Autumn, unlike other seasons, always seems clearly defined.

In 2004 it can probably be said that Autumn began on 10 September -
bang down the middle of the range of dates as well as I can remember.

Any comments?

Jack

I always reckon there's a feel of autumn in the morning air (0700 ish)
during the week of my birthday, the third week of August.

Jack Harrison wrote:
In S England, there always seems to be a date when it can be said
"autumn has arrived". This date varies from one year to the next of
course, but by remarkably little. (a week perhaps?). The onset of
Autumn, unlike other seasons, always seems clearly defined.

In 2004 it can probably be said that Autumn began on 10 September -
bang down the middle of the range of dates as well as I can remember.

Any comments?

Jack

The first time it's too cold to wear shorts when cycling. Actually, this
morning it's too cold, too wet and way too windy - so Autumn is most
definately here!!

--
Chris
www.ivy-house.net
Swaffham, Norfolk

Regarding *temperature*, in Kent, or anywhere else South of the Thames,
September is most definately a summer month.
--------------------------------------------------------
"Joe" wrote in message
...


Martin Rowley wrote:
"John Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to use this measure, wouldn't it mean that in many
recent years autumn wouldn't have begun in the south till the second
half of October?


... yes. In recent years (compared to when I was a nipper), I have had
difficulty in regarding September as an 'autumnal' month.

Martin.




I September is like March, June and December, they are very fuzzy
months when it comes to the weather that occurs in them.
For instance September, can be generally a extension of the summer, or
it can be the autumn cum-early or it can be summery, starting off like
summer, but gradually slipping into autumn for the final week.

Of course there is an whole spectrum of what a particular month or
season is like.

It is not good to try and generalise what a particular month or season
is like. Obviously the human brain likes to catagorise so that we can
find some order in the universe we live in. But I think there is not a
stereotypical type September or any month or season come to that matter.

It is all very subjective, and we all have our own stereotypes to what
each month or season is like, and whatever anyone says, will be there
own value judgement what a particular month or season is like, that is
not wrong or right, it is just the way each person sees what a month or
season is like.

Joe
Wolverhampton

I deem Autumn to have arrived when I no longer windsurf in my short summer
wetsuit - and at the weekend I was still wearing it, all be it getting
chilly at times and yesterday I wore on top a neoprene rash vest - Sat was
far sunnier than Sunday - and the sea is still very warm - I swam three
times last week, each session well over a mile (30 mins) at did not feel at
all cold - so with the advent of this wind - we can almost say Autumn is
here - but in our household & domestic scene - it's when the CH goes on,
sweat shirts are the norm and shorts go back in the draw - but I still will
be wearing flip flops for a while yet -- it's not till it starts getting
very cold that the winter wetsuits and boots come out!!

In message , Philip Eden
writes

"Jack Harrison" wrote in message
om...
In S England, there always seems to be a date when it can be said
"autumn has arrived". This date varies from one year to the next
of
course, but by remarkably little. (a week perhaps?). The onset
of
Autumn, unlike other seasons, always seems clearly defined.

In 2004 it can probably be said that Autumn began on 10
September -
bang down the middle of the range of dates as well as I can
remember.

In truth, it's a fits-and-starts job, isn't it ... just like spring?
And I think we're all agreed it varies greatly geographically,
and it's (almost) entirely subjective. I like the measures other
people have mentioned: shutting the upstairs window, wearing
socks again, etc, to which you might add picking up your
first conker, clearing the fallers out of the grass before cutting
it. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the day the moisture
from overnight rain or dew doesn't disappear from shady
corners, even though it might have been a sunny day. (That's
the day the ground is wet pretty-much continuously until
the next March or April).

I always notice the first chilly night, usually in late-August,
when the air temp drops below, say, 7ºC ... this year it
was September 1 here. But it's an excellent exercise to
try to do this without reference to meteorological or
astronomical (measured) parameters.

I've just arrived back this evening from a week at Dunfanaghy in Co.
Donegal. Autumn certainly arrived there during our stay :-). The
"run-of-wind" during the week was probably about as much as we get in
six months at Chalfont St Giles. It was very bracing, to say the least.
The seas breaking on the headlands yesterday were a sight to behold.
Rainfall during the week also seemed to be as much as we get in 6 months
in Chalfont St Giles (I exaggerate a bit!). Days with forecasts of
"blustery showers and sunny intervals" in that part of the world tend to
result in hours of near-continuous heavy rain.

Norman.
(delete "thisbit" twice to e-mail)
--
Norman Lynagh Weather Consultancy
Chalfont St Giles
England

"Succorso" wrote in message
...
Jack Harrison wrote:
In S England, there always seems to be a date when it can be said
"autumn has arrived". This date varies from one year to the next of
course, but by remarkably little. (a week perhaps?). The onset of
Autumn, unlike other seasons, always seems clearly defined.

In 2004 it can probably be said that Autumn began on 10 September -
bang down the middle of the range of dates as well as I can remember.

Any comments?

Jack

The first time it's too cold to wear shorts when cycling. Actually, this
morning it's too cold, too wet and way too windy - so Autumn is most
definately here!!



still to hot to sit in the sun at 1600 today, but then my defintion of
winter is when its cool enough

"WeatherCam" wrote in message
...
I deem Autumn to have arrived when I no longer windsurf in my short summer
wetsuit - and at the weekend I was still wearing it, all be it getting
chilly at times and yesterday I wore on top a neoprene rash vest - Sat was
far sunnier than Sunday - and the sea is still very warm - I swam three
times last week, each session well over a mile (30 mins) at did not feel
at
all cold - so with the advent of this wind - we can almost say Autumn is
here - but in our household & domestic scene - it's when the CH goes on,
sweat shirts are the norm and shorts go back in the draw - but I still
will
be wearing flip flops for a while yet -- it's not till it starts getting
very cold that the winter wetsuits and boots come out!!



The only time I tried windsurfing at Coverack on the Lizard, I was to cold
in a wetsuit on a sunny day in July!