Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?


Cut and Paste

blowing them up with nuclear warheads.

Even the federal government got into the act, with three decades of
ill-fated research called "Project Stormfury" before shelving the idea
of weather modification in the 1980s.

But dozens of ideas -- part hope, part fantasy -- continue to crop up
among weather wonks, Internet bloggers and others who think they have
come up with a way to spare coastal residents the misery of
hurricanes.

Suggestions have included coating the surface of the water with olive
oil; towing an iceberg down to Florida to cool down the water
temperature; or building large fans on the coast to blow away
approaching storms.

"And then there was a guy who called and said he could pray them
away," said Hugh Willoughby, a research professor with the
International Hurricane Center at Florida International University.

By far the most outlandish proposal, and one of the most recurrent,
was the idea to use a nuclear warhead to blow a hurricane out of the
water.

"Hurricanes are bad enough without being radioactive," Willoughby
said. "Put that genie back in the bottle. Nuclear weapons are more
dangerous than hurricanes."

Willoughby, who reviewed some of the proposed inventions when he was
director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's
hurricane research division, said many of the ideas are quickly
debunked for lacking a basic understanding of meteorology.

One government plan was to spread a substance on the water, but the
wind and waves made it impossible to keep a slick, he said.

"All of these underestimate the scale of a storm," Willoughby said.

Still, one South Florida businessman thinks he has a winning idea --
flying a Boeing 747 into the monster storm, where it would hit it with
tons of super absorbent powder, literally sucking it dry and breaking
it apart.

Only a test will determine if it is a flight of fantasy, and there are
no plans to try the process on the approaching Hurricane Ivan.

But businessman Peter Cordani, chief operating officer of Dyn-O-Mat, a
company that sells environmental absorbent products, thinks he can
knock down a storm by one or two categories.

He claims to have caused a thunderstorm to disappear in a test off
Palm Beach, and he's assembled a team including two former astronauts
to work on the plan.

we have a lot of confidence in it," said Scott Mac Leod, one of the
astronauts who tested the lunar module.

Others aren't so sure.

The government's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory
describes the proposal as a long-shot: Any effect of the absorbent
powder would be small, and require thousands of tons of goop, flown
into the storm in hundreds of sorties every half hour or so.

Willoughby said the project would be "hugely expensive for not much
benefit."

"It would really take all of the military heavy-lift aircraft that the
United States has to carry the material, and there would be a major
air traffic control problem around the eye," he told the AP last year.

The government suggests that amateur hurricane busters focus their
energy on more realistic goals -- enforcing building codes, educating
the public about preparedness and helping poorer nations prepare for
the storms.

Simon S wrote:
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

SNIP

Suggestions have included coating the surface of the water with olive
oil; towing an iceberg down to Florida to cool down the water
temperature; or building large fans on the coast to blow away
approaching storms.

I like the idea of trying to blow a hurricane away with big coastal fans
! ;-)

Just need about a couple of thousand at various heights at about 5,000,
15,000 and 25,000 feet high !


"And then there was a guy who called and said he could pray them
away," said Hugh Willoughby, a research professor with the
International Hurricane Center at Florida International University.

By far the most outlandish proposal, and one of the most recurrent,
was the idea to use a nuclear warhead to blow a hurricane out of the
water.

"Hurricanes are bad enough without being radioactive," Willoughby
said. "Put that genie back in the bottle. Nuclear weapons are more
dangerous than hurricanes."

Willoughby, who reviewed some of the proposed inventions when he was
director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's
hurricane research division, said many of the ideas are quickly
debunked for lacking a basic understanding of meteorology.

One government plan was to spread a substance on the water, but the
wind and waves made it impossible to keep a slick, he said.

"All of these underestimate the scale of a storm," Willoughby said.

Still, one South Florida businessman thinks he has a winning idea --
flying a Boeing 747 into the monster storm, where it would hit it with
tons of super absorbent powder, literally sucking it dry and breaking
it apart.

Only a test will determine if it is a flight of fantasy, and there are
no plans to try the process on the approaching Hurricane Ivan.

But businessman Peter Cordani, chief operating officer of Dyn-O-Mat, a
company that sells environmental absorbent products, thinks he can
knock down a storm by one or two categories.

He claims to have caused a thunderstorm to disappear in a test off
Palm Beach, and he's assembled a team including two former astronauts
to work on the plan.

we have a lot of confidence in it," said Scott Mac Leod, one of the
astronauts who tested the lunar module.

Others aren't so sure.

The government's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory
describes the proposal as a long-shot: Any effect of the absorbent
powder would be small, and require thousands of tons of goop, flown
into the storm in hundreds of sorties every half hour or so.

Willoughby said the project would be "hugely expensive for not much
benefit."

"It would really take all of the military heavy-lift aircraft that the
United States has to carry the material, and there would be a major
air traffic control problem around the eye," he told the AP last year.

The government suggests that amateur hurricane busters focus their
energy on more realistic goals -- enforcing building codes, educating
the public about preparedness and helping poorer nations prepare for
the storms.

On 13 Sep 2004 01:16:45 -0700, (Simon S)
wrote:

Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

They'd probably end up with a radioactive hurricane.


I'm sure I've read somewhere that hurricanes also have some *positive*
effects - I can't remember exactly what though!

The energy in the atmosphere has to go somewhere, even if a hurricane could
be stopped in it's tracks, the energy associated with the storm is not just
going to disappear. Some other poor so and so will end up worse off,
probably us here in the UK.

Shaun Pudwell.

"phil" wrote in message
...
On 13 Sep 2004 01:16:45 -0700, (Simon S)
wrote:

Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

They'd probably end up with a radioactive hurricane.


I'm sure I've read somewhere that hurricanes also have some *positive*
effects - I can't remember exactly what though!

"Simon S" wrote in message
...
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?


Cut and Paste

blowing them up with nuclear warheads.

An equally effective alternative.

Light a match in the middle of one :-)

I can't remember now where I came across the figures but the amount of
energy involved in a hurricane is equivalent to something like 1MT/sec.

Nukes may be frightening on Man's scale but not on Natures.

Mind you, reminds me of the, in real terms nonsensical but nevertheless
entertaining, 1960's film "The Day The Earth Caught Fire". Global Warming
caused by the Earths orbit being changed by accidental simultaneous
detonation by the US and USSR of test H bombs at opposite ends of the Earth.

IIRC, wasn't part of the Mount Pinatubo in 1991 (far more powerful than any
Nuke) eruption during a Typhoon? In energy terms and overall effect, neither
had any effect on the other apart from a bit of volcanic dust being blown
around.

--
Pete

Please take my dog out twice to e-mail

---------------------------------------------------------------
The views expressed above are entirely those of the writer and
do not represent the views, policy or understanding of any
other person or official body.
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:48:34 +0100, Joe wrote:



Simon S wrote:
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

SNIP

Suggestions have included coating the surface of the water with olive
oil; towing an iceberg down to Florida to cool down the water
temperature; or building large fans on the coast to blow away
approaching storms.

I like the idea of trying to blow a hurricane away with big coastal fans
! ;-)

Just need about a couple of thousand at various heights at about 5,000,
15,000 and 25,000 feet high !



That would create a large vacuum inland and suffocate everybody!

Thinking about it a bit more it is quite likely that the resultant low pressure
overland would cause winds every bit as powerful as the hurricane's.

I quite like the iceberg idea. The only problem is the Americans would want the
ice for their drinks. Anyone who has been to the US will know about the
American obsession with ice, after all they bought Alaska for the ice, not the
oil.

JPG

In message , Shaun Pudwell
writes
The energy in the atmosphere has to go somewhere, even if a hurricane could
be stopped in it's tracks, the energy associated with the storm is not just
going to disappear. Some other poor so and so will end up worse off,
probably us here in the UK.

Where is the energy in a hurricane going? Surely the only significant
way the Earth loses energy is by radiating it into space and a hurricane
is just moving it around a bit.

A quick back of envelope calculation suggests the energy released by
cooling the Earth's oceans by 0.1 degree C would be sufficient to
accelerate the entire atmosphere to 1750 km per hour.

--
Michael Parry
Tony Blair MP Anagram I'm Tory plan B

JPG wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:48:34 +0100, Joe wrote:



Simon S wrote:
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

SNIP

Suggestions have included coating the surface of the water with
olive oil; towing an iceberg down to Florida to cool down the water
temperature; or building large fans on the coast to blow away
approaching storms.

I like the idea of trying to blow a hurricane away with big coastal
fans ! ;-)

Just need about a couple of thousand at various heights at about
5,000, 15,000 and 25,000 feet high !



That would create a large vacuum inland and suffocate everybody!

Thinking about it a bit more it is quite likely that the resultant
low pressure overland would cause winds every bit as powerful as the
hurricane's.

I quite like the iceberg idea. The only problem is the Americans
would want the ice for their drinks. Anyone who has been to the US
will know about the American obsession with ice, after all they
bought Alaska for the ice, not the oil.

I think that if you do the calculations, you'll find that the cooling effect
of the iceberg will be localised and miniscule. Also don't forget that cold
water sinks. Not as nutty as some of the other suggestions though!

BRian


Brian

Pete B wrote:
"Simon S" wrote in message
...
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?


Cut and Paste

blowing them up with nuclear warheads.

An equally effective alternative.

Light a match in the middle of one :-)

I can't remember now where I came across the figures but the amount of
energy involved in a hurricane is equivalent to something like
1MT/sec.

Nukes may be frightening on Man's scale but not on Natures.

Mind you, reminds me of the, in real terms nonsensical but
nevertheless entertaining, 1960's film "The Day The Earth Caught
Fire". Global Warming caused by the Earths orbit being changed by
accidental simultaneous detonation by the US and USSR of test H bombs
at opposite ends of the Earth.

IIRC, wasn't part of the Mount Pinatubo in 1991 (far more powerful
than any Nuke) eruption during a Typhoon? In energy terms and overall
effect, neither had any effect on the other apart from a bit of
volcanic dust being blown around.

There'll be rather more than a bit of volcanic dust if Cumbre Vieja on La
Palma collapses into the Atlantic.

Brian

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:17:24 +0100, "BrianW" wrote:

JPG wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:48:34 +0100, Joe wrote:



Simon S wrote:
Stupid idea but what would happen if they did?

SNIP

Suggestions have included coating the surface of the water with
olive oil; towing an iceberg down to Florida to cool down the water
temperature; or building large fans on the coast to blow away
approaching storms.

I like the idea of trying to blow a hurricane away with big coastal
fans ! ;-)

Just need about a couple of thousand at various heights at about
5,000, 15,000 and 25,000 feet high !



That would create a large vacuum inland and suffocate everybody!

Thinking about it a bit more it is quite likely that the resultant
low pressure overland would cause winds every bit as powerful as the
hurricane's.

I quite like the iceberg idea. The only problem is the Americans
would want the ice for their drinks. Anyone who has been to the US
will know about the American obsession with ice, after all they
bought Alaska for the ice, not the oil.

I think that if you do the calculations, you'll find that the cooling effect
of the iceberg will be localised and miniscule. Also don't forget that cold
water sinks. Not as nutty as some of the other suggestions though!


GWB and the neocon Christian right can always call on their sky buddy to change
the laws of physics (contrary to Scotty's "Ye cannae change the laws of
physics") and make water have its lowest density at 4 C rather than its highest
density. This would make all the cold water come to the surface and kill of the
hurricanes.

JPG




BRian


Brian