On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:23:38 GMT, Gene Nygaard
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:06:36 -0500, David Ball
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:05:47 GMT, Gene Nygaard
wrote:


It is broke. That's the only reason hectopascals exist in the first
place, is the pressure to get rid of those obsolete millibars.

LOL. Who says millibars are obsolete?

CGPM. ISO. NPL. NIST. Measurement Canada. WMO. Many more.

Hmmm...did you check with the meteorologists? You know, the
people who use the units?

That's what the WMO I referred to is. They have recognized the need
to get rid of millibars; they just haven't been smart enough to to it
right. A branch of Environment Canada is also the meteorological
organization using kilopascals.

No. Those are bureaucrats. I'm talking about the people who
actually do the work.


Feel free to jump in with any standards from any international or
national or professional meteorological organization advocating the
use of the millibar. Prove to us your claim that there is nothing
wrong with millibars. But also let us know the ones you run across
that indicate there is indeed something wrong with the continued use
of millibars.

LOL. Feel free to jump in any time you want to make sense. I
don't have to prove anything.



Hmmm...so scientists should only use words that can be
understood by the public? That's an interesting idea.

No. It's more like you should be using the same units real scientists
use. And so should the general public, many of whom are involved in
some field of science anyway.

I do. They're called millibars. I can go into a room full of
meteorologists anywhere in the world and use those units and people
will know what I'm talking about, and that, after all, is the goal:
communication.



Technically, millibars are SI. They're called hectopascals.

No, millibars are not SI, and never will be. One of the hallmark
qualities of the SI is that it is a "coherent" system of units. Bars
are not coherent with this system. The coherent derived units are
some unitary combination of the base units in that system; the bar is
100000 times the combination of base units in SI.

No, the pound is not coherent. Neither is the mile. The beauty
of SI is that is uses multiples of 10. Other units do not. Are you
suggesting that all aviation forecasters stop using knots? Should we
write marine forecasts in m/s just to keep you happy, or do the users
have some say in the matter as well? Like I said, you've got way too
much time on your hands if this is such an irritant for you.



There is absolutely no reason
whatsoever why we should have to learn a whole new set of measurement
units, just to learn about and discuss some field of activity we
haven't been involved in before. There's no reason why scientists
involved in interdisciplinary activities should have to make
conversions one way for one tribe of scientists, and the other way for
a different tribe, just to work together.

So what you're saying is that we need to dumb down the
science....

How in the world can using the same units of measurement as the
scientist themselves use, when you are working with them, involve any
"dumbing down" of the science?

You're saying that working scientists, and that is what
meteorologists are, can only communicate among themselves in a manner
that is acceptable to you. Sorry, but the goal of communication is the
effective exchange of information. While there is certainly some truth
that using common units to exchange information with the public
facilitates such information exchange, there is absolutely no reason
that in discussions with my colleagues that I use the same convention.



It isn't simply a matter of what meteorologists want to use.

I'm afraid it is. I and my collegues communicate using them.
Do we use them when speaking to the public. No. We use kilopascals,
but for internal communications, what we use is entirely up to us.
Now, had you started this thread with a plea that meteorologists use
standard conventions when speaking to the public, I would happily
agree with you, but you didn't say that. Did you?

Like you, I took this thread as I found it. But if I had started this
thread, I certainly wouldn't have said anything like that. That's a
bunch of hogwash.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the
day, what you and I think really doesn't matter.