"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Col" wrote in message
...


I agree, most farmers aren't rich, but this is in spite of getting the
subsidies/compensation! There's something wrong here.
ISTM there are too many farmers chasing too little market.

Actually no, the last ten or more years have seen under production, stocks
of grains and other food stuffs are being run down, the Chinese etc have
much higher standards of living, are much wealthier and are now a major food
importer.

So why are our farmers still struggling then?


And in
a properly competitive market that means some farmers should
go to the wall.

True, but unfortunately we do not have a properly competitive market,
because one of them would mean that you could go hungry. So we have a
situation where European farmers have been banned from selling grain outside
the EU last year (and again a couple of years ago) so that they didn't get
the higher world price. But then you did get the option of cheap bread.

Unpleasant, but that's harsh economics for you.
I do not see why imported food should drive the price up.

It depends on whether there is any sloshing about spare. At the moment there
isn't, all grain and beef produced has a market. To get them to sell it to
you rather than someone else, you have to bid more than that someone else.

Also I suggest you read
http://www.defra.gov.uk/farm/caprefo...bnoterev16.pdf

Gordon Bennett, all 68 pages of it??

This discusses the effects of a drop in UK food product as is expected over
the next few years and postulates price rises for meat of up to 25%


In a
truly competitive market the cheapest/best product should prevail,
whether that comes from here or abroad.

Yep, produce something with coolie labour paid a pittance, and with no H&SE
or working hours directive and see just how cheap we can get it.

Well this is a decision the UK consumer will have to take.
Will they take cheap food from countries where labour and animal welfare
standards are not as high as back home or will they be prepared to pay
that bit extra to buy British to ensure that higher standards are met?

We make these decisions all the time. We are quite prepared to buy shoes
or football shirts from Thailand or wherever, possibly from child labourers
and certainly manufactured under conditions that would never be allowed
in the West.

The choice is ours.........



I work in manufacturing industry, remember that? It's that quaint old
thing that made this country great. I'm sick to bloody death about
hearing how farmers are treated as a 'special case' and given
handouts whilst nobody gives a flying **** about manufacturing
industry.

Of course not, they all believe that in a truly competitive market the
cheapest/best product should prevail, whether that comes from here or
abroad.
But then load our industry with bizarre regulation that sticks costs up and
makes it uncompetitive.

Indeed yes.
My company, an industrial paint manufacturer has just been hit with yet
another EU directive as to how to dispose of hazardous waste.
More costs racked up and profits eaten away.
I don't see any government help for us to comply with these new regulations.


Foot & Mouth disease? Tough ****, that's one of the risks
of the trade they are in. They should have taken out insurance.

No Insurance company will offer it, as the control of the disease is in
Government hands and whether we get it or not is effectively a government
decision based on how much they want to spend on the frontier controls. If
we did the job properly like civilised countries such as the USA, Canada or
Aus or NZ do then there is little risk.
The only policy available is from the NFU which paid out a sum which enabled
the farmer to actually live for the 6 months to a year when he had no income
but still got the bills coming in

Well of course no insurance company will offer it, they know the government
will step in.


If a factory burns down you are expected to be insured against it.
I don't see why the government should come and bail you out!

You know, since 1999 I have been through 4 periods of redundancy
at the company I work for. Who cares about that, where's the
compensation to help us through difficult trading conditions?

Hey, redundancy, now there is a concept, I bet you got unemployment benefit
as well. Try being self employed and see what you get.

No I didn't. I wasn't made redundant.
I'm damn good at my job and they know it.


I would quite happily see most of the British countryside returned
to it's natural wilderness state of forest if farming was no longer
viable here. it would be great for wildlife if nothing else, given that
intensive farming since the war has done so much to destroy
natural habitats.

Actually it reverts to pony paddocks, second homes and tyre dumps

No it doesn't.
If you left the British countryside alone for 100 years, you'd have one massive
forest.

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk