Martin Rowley wrote:
"John Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to use this measure, wouldn't it mean that in many
recent years autumn wouldn't have begun in the south till the second
half of October?


.... yes. In recent years (compared to when I was a nipper), I have had
difficulty in regarding September as an 'autumnal' month.


Don't have to go back to when you (or I) were a nipper for a different
kind of September. 1986 I think it was when we had 15 ground and 7 air
frosts here in Bracknell. I think there were as many, if not more,
frosts that September than in the following three months together.

Graham