On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:51:20 PM UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
On Sunday, 13 September 2015 16:05:31 UTC+1,


I think it is safe to say that it was the day *New* Labour died. Although to be fair it's been a while since they used that term.

When Blair was elected as leader it was the left that cried the day the Labour Party died and it did in a way, not so much die but the extreme clause 4 nationalisation socialism in Britain crowd went into hibernation... Now of course its the wing who wants to work with capitalism who have been knocked of their perch.

What goes around comes around.....


I can see why so many Labour Party members supported Corbyn just out of purely being sickened by the smarmy masonic type club that the recent leadership had become. Even I prefer Corbyn to the other lot that's held sway all using politics to further their own attitudes towards life, however without capitalism developing we wouldn't be commenting on the internet as there would be no internet, no electricity no energy in fact no left -wing and especially Labour Party.

Well yes but the Labour Party developed as an 'antidote' if you like to the bare, naked capitalism that brought us the industrial revolution. It was not so very long before the Labour Party's inception that we had appalling factory conditions, child labour, even slavery. That's what happens when you let capitalism run rampant and completely unbridled without any of the checks and balances that social reform brings.


The day the left can admit to the fact that capitalism has been the most powerful force in human history to improve our lot and that instead of constantly using pathetic caricatures of the 'Bosses' and 'workers' and actually look at the human condition before the industrial revolution then I'll consider the left again or any sane discussion that sees the importance of capitalism and also the negatives without screaming lynch the bosses..

Eat the rich

You know I always find it very ironic that when capitalism goes badly wrong as in the case of the banking crisis it takes a good does of good old fashioned socialism as in the nationalisation of part of the banking system to steady the ship.

Col

You are doing that 'lefty' thing again just looking at history starting from the Industrial and agrarian revolution

I am not a 'lefty'(or should that be 'leftie'?) but there appears to be little point in attempting to convince you of that.

I mentioned the Industrial Revolution as that is when capitalism proper kicked in, as you yourself acknowledge not once but twice below.

So you think that before capitalism and the industrial revolution that children frolicked without a care raised on organic foods.

Huh?
Where did I say or even imply that?
You are wrong anyway. Children were raised on organic food back then as there no pesticides or chemical fertilisers.


The advent of the industrial and agrarian revolution improved peoples lives beyond measure, yes there were crowded factories but it wasn't any worse than the living in mud agrarian conditions that they had come from.but in a short time everyone benefitted and their lives were infinitely better than that of the **** poor conditions of feudalism. No one forced people to flood into towns and cities population was going to grow and than exploded under the early days of capitalism , in less than two hundred years in the west we have so much in terms of quality of life that the second wave indigenous populations are staring to fall in the USA and like that in Italy.

I can't disagree that capitalism has improved the lives of millions immeasurably. However it can't be left completely to it's own devices or se can end up with horrendous aspects I mentioned in my previous post. Organisations like trade unions and The Labour Party have helped prevent that. I'm not sure what we are even arguing about here, surely you wouldn't disagree with that?

By the way 'Government (nationalisation) always fails the only generators of wealth are the capitalist. I heard Ewan Evans on R4 a couple of years back say that something like 80% of all businesses employed less than 10 people -hardly 'eat the rich-.

That was a joke. Hence the smiley

I'm not advocating nationalisation in general. As soon as the banks that were part-nationalised in what amounted to an emergency situation are in a fit state to be returned to the private sector this should take place. In fact the process has already begun.

Col