"xmetman" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 5 October 2015 09:47:43 UTC+1, wrote:
"xmetman" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 October 2015 22:17:12 UTC+1, Tudor Hughes wrote:
On Sunday, 4 October 2015 18:07:30 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:
I've been analysing the occurrence of frost using the data in the
daily
Central England Temperature [CET] series from 1878 to 2015. It may not
come as a surprise to some to learn that the first frost is getting
later and the last frost getting earlier. The first frost of the
autumn/winter at the start of the series in 1878 occurred around the
29th of October, but 137 years later this has now slipped by over two
weeks to the 13th of November. Likewise the last frost of any
winter/spring has slipped back 11 days from the 16th of April in 1878
to
the 5th of April in 2014.

Charts etc

How is a frost defined in the daily CET? Is it that the average
minimum at the 3 or 4 (correct?) stations used is below 0°C or does it
need just one station to be below 0°C? My guess is that it is the
former
and this would mean that the first CET frost of autumn would be later
than
the first frost at any individual CET station. It would seem to be the
explanation of why my own figures over 32 years show an earlier first
frost and a later last one than CET. The dates are 21 April and 4
November, both with a wide range. The standard deviations are 14 and 18
days respectively.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, NE Surrey, 557 ft, 169 m.

Yes Tudor its a composite temperature from a number of sites - I forget
how
many - so the best way of looking at a CET frost is as a 'general' frost
and
not just a local one. I would prefer to use daily values from a 'real'
station with a very long record, the problem is they are very few of them
and places like Oxford charge for the data as do the Met Office, but I'll
content myself with the CET and EWR series until one day someone see's
what
a nonsense it is to lock away the nations climate data.
======================

It is not locked away, but a small charge for processing is reasonable.
Can
you get a death certificate for your ancestor free of charge, no, but it
is
available. Same thing. You are also using CET data inappropriately as
Tudor
has revealed.


Did I upset you or was it something I said? I sometimes think you are just
trying to goad me into a reaction.

Using 'CET data inappropriately' that's a good one - and guilty as charged.

I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable amount for climate data from the Met
Office, but the last time I asked for daily rainfall data from just three
sites in the south west from 1973-2014, I was asked to cough up (for 43923
data units) £4749.65+VAT. I say at those prices it is effectively LOCKED
AWAY.

And comparing accessing climate data for the UK to a death certificate for
someone is ridiculous.

I can see why Dawlish has no time for you and your arrogant attitude.
==========================

No it is not ridiculous, it is the same principle. People think that they
are entitled to lots of things in the UK when at the end of the day we are
entitled to nothing and some things we should pay for. I understand that you
*can* get climate data free of charge for *private* research purposes. Most
people require climate information to support legal cases, develop
applications that will make them money etc. In those cases the fees are
quite reasonable. You used to work at the MetO Bruce, can't you get the data
by a "back door", I know I can.

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
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