Weatherlawyer wrote in
ups.com:

I am not about to go back on this thread and examine what was or
wasn't said. It's all empty rhetoric anyway.

Then why did you get involved in the first place?

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 4, 12:39 am, "George" wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Oct 3, 8:50 pm, Nosterill wrote:
On Oct 3, 5:25 pm, wrote:

On Oct 3, 10:46 am, Weatherlawyer
wrote:
(portions snipped)

Concentrated sulfuric acid is not a very strong oxidizing agent
unless
it is hot.

As you point out, concentrated sulfuric acid is not a good
oxidizing
agent. Additionally, concentrated sulfuric acid is the term for
the
industrial product, which is 98% H2SO4 in water (18 molar
concentration), far more concentrated than acid rain.

An article in the scientific journal "Water, Air, and Soil
Pollution" (http://www.springerlink.com/content/n47407582x2652j7/)
deals with the corrosion of metals by acid rain. Under conditions
of
pH 3.5 with 1% salt present at 35 degrees Celsius, mild steel
corroded
at the rate of 735 micrometers (millionths of a meter) per year,
galvanized steel at 330 micrometers/year, stainless steel at 2
micrometers/year, and aluminum at 9 micrometers/year. Since a
micrometer is 0.000039 inch, I don't think that acid rain is going
to
dissolve the boat.

An earlier poster mentioned fuming sulfuric acid. This is formed
by
dissolving an excess of sulfur trioxide in pure sulfuric acid.
There
is no way that this reaction is going to occur under ambient
conditions.

I was that earlier poster and I completely agree with you. I made the
fatal mistake of addressing Weatherlawyer's assertion that "Sulphur
will burn in oxygen to form sulphur dioxide but getting
that to form an acid is rather difficult." I had forgotten that he
would rather turn the laws of nature upside down than concede
anything.

I am not about to go back on this thread and examine what was or
wasn't said. It's all empty rhetoric anyway.

I would like to point out that the burning sulphur, whatever it turned
into, would have to turn a few neat tricks itself to get dissolved to
some sort, any sort, of an acid in the pool in time to make travel
difficult for the cast.

I don't see what needs to be conceded. What is wrong with examining
chemistry? It will have to stand in the absence of any technical data
from the pollution sites mentioned here. Or from other sites that
might turn out to be strongly acid.

The reason for my hesitation to accept any spurious nonsense about
acid rain comes from observing the effects of it. It seems to be a
selective destroyer of trees. Blocks of stricken trees -making grids
of live and dead ones, seem to have been formed from it.

Squares more likely down to the selective weed killers that are or
were applied to forests, particularly to spruce plantations.

Perhaps I misunderstand the results.

I can't see the destruction wrought on fish in mountain lakes
occurring because rain falls from the skies. Less so now that I have
read that this rain seems to fall cleaner than when it formed in the
clouds.

Fish are highly sensitive to not only pH levels, but change in pH,
particularly rapid ones. Some fish do well in fairly acidic water.
Other
fish do well in alkaline water. Few, if any fish do well when the pH
they
are accustomed to changes drastically or rapidly.

Perhaps I am being precipitate but it seems to me that acid rain is no
more than the usual smoke and mirrors employed by journalists on slow
news days. Journalists that aught to be looking more closely at the
state of things.

You should visit some of the forests in the Appalachian mountains. Acid
rain has devastated thousands of acres, and many lakes and streams. It
is
well documented (by scientists, not journalists).

I am not saying there is no such thing as the damage caused or that
the chemicals involved are considered acidic. But there are all sorts
of scams going on in the forestry commission as was in the UK. No
doubt there is a link with the selective weed-killers that were used
in your part of the world too. I am only guessing it is due to weed
killer.

Umm, we don't use weed killers on mountain top forests. You guessed wrong.

One thing that I do know for certain is that it is not caused by
aerial migration of city formed pollutants such as carbon dioxide,
sulphur oxides and/or nitrogen oxides or any such type of chemical.

Then you don't know much about it.

http://www.epa.gov/region7/programs/...in/acidrn2.htm

Not all that long ago, when most streets around here contained a few
houses that burned wood and coal, you'd see neglected rain gutters on
the roofs nearby filled with vegetation.

Even now with certain types of central heating you can see lichens
growing on the roofs near their vents.

It is highly unlikely that a forest can die because of these things.

It is higly unlikely that you have any expertise in this area.

George

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Weatherlawyer wrote in
ups.com:

I am not about to go back on this thread and examine what was or
wasn't said. It's all empty rhetoric anyway.

Then why did you get involved in the first place?

Brian

....because he is an expert at empty rhetoric?

George

On Oct 4, 9:25 am, "George" wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

Umm, we don't use weed killers on mountain top forests. You guessed wrong.

I wasn't speaking for what goes on in your neck of the woods but I can
assure you that over here, for the first 4 or 5 years spruce were and
for all I know, still are sprayed with a relative of agent orange.

I was suggesting that some regions were overdosed whilst others were
not dosed or not given enough/too much.

That is far more likely than that naturally occurring potential bio-
food is doing any damage. The other more likely alternative to
glowballs' acid rain is that there is insect damage to plantations
that contain too little diversity to fend off things like spruce-bark
beetle.

http://www.epa.gov/region7/programs/...in/acidrn2.htm

It is highly unlikely that a forest can die because of these things.

It is highly unlikely that you have any expertise in this area.

I never claimed I was qualified enough to be paid to write bumph like
the link you posted.

But no doubt you are now going to explain how it can cause damage
miles from the source when trees in Central and Hyde Parks can
flourish.

If so it is a shame that I shan't be reading it. I only put up with
your silly, blind
plonkerisms out of politeness.

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Scientists have uncovered thousands of marine
microbes -- including never-before-seen bacteria -- thriving deep in
the sea near cracks in the Earth's crust where warm fluids and cold
sea water mix, U.S. researchers said on Wednesday.

Huber and colleagues at the University of Washington's Joint Institute
for the Study of Atmosphere and Ocean took samples from two
hydrothermal vents on the Pacific deep-sea volcano, Axial Seamount.

"You've got hot fluids that have things in it like hydrogen gas and
sulfur, which are not things you find in abundance in regular sea
water. They're mixing with this cold, oxygen-rich sea water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scien...41498020071004

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Oct 4, 9:25 am, "George" wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

Umm, we don't use weed killers on mountain top forests. You guessed
wrong.

I wasn't speaking for what goes on in your neck of the woods but I can
assure you that over here, for the first 4 or 5 years spruce were and
for all I know, still are sprayed with a relative of agent orange.

I was suggesting that some regions were overdosed whilst others were
not dosed or not given enough/too much.

Why would anyone spray herbicides on trees if their intention was not to
kill the trees? And what does this have to do with acid rain, a well
documented environmental disaster?

George

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
ups.com...
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Scientists have uncovered thousands of marine
microbes -- including never-before-seen bacteria -- thriving deep in
the sea near cracks in the Earth's crust where warm fluids and cold
sea water mix, U.S. researchers said on Wednesday.

Huber and colleagues at the University of Washington's Joint Institute
for the Study of Atmosphere and Ocean took samples from two
hydrothermal vents on the Pacific deep-sea volcano, Axial Seamount.

"You've got hot fluids that have things in it like hydrogen gas and
sulfur, which are not things you find in abundance in regular sea
water. They're mixing with this cold, oxygen-rich sea water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scien...41498020071004

Interesting. But what does this have to do with the OP?

George

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 17:47:15 -0400, "George"
wrote:


"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 4, 9:25 am, "George" wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

Umm, we don't use weed killers on mountain top forests. You guessed
wrong.

I wasn't speaking for what goes on in your neck of the woods but I can
assure you that over here, for the first 4 or 5 years spruce were and
for all I know, still are sprayed with a relative of agent orange.

I was suggesting that some regions were overdosed whilst others were
not dosed or not given enough/too much.

Why would anyone spray herbicides on trees if their intention was not to
kill the trees? And what does this have to do with acid rain, a well
documented environmental disaster?

George



I've read of it being done in the Pacific Northwest. The idea is to
kill the broadleaf plants to let the conifers get started. I guess it
works if done at the proper dosage. The main tree crop there is, or
was back when I knew anything about it, Douglas fir. It is a fire
species, normally grows after a fire and needs full sun.

On Oct 5, 12:45 am, Charles wrote:

I've read of it being done in the Pacific Northwest. The idea is to
kill the broad leaf plants to let the conifers get started. I guess it
works if done at the proper dosage. The main tree crop there is, or
was back when I knew anything about it, Douglas fir. It is a fire
species, normally grows after a fire and needs full sun.

I doubt in the itinerant and seasonal nature of the industry, there
will be medical records in the British Isles that can be linked to the
use of this stuff and of course in the USA no-one in that line of work
could afford medical attention.

Maybe Canadian records could reveal the extent of herbicide poisoning
among forest workers?

"George" wrote in news:3q1Ni.1796$O7.74
@bignews7.bellsouth.net:


"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Weatherlawyer wrote in
ups.com:

I am not about to go back on this thread and examine what was or
wasn't said. It's all empty rhetoric anyway.

Then why did you get involved in the first place?

Brian

...because he is an expert at empty rhetoric?

George

Good point.

From the number of off topic drivel this guy is posting, I have
to wonder if he's making a run for all time top poster. Seems
to remind of a previous character we had here some time back
with a name between July and September.

He's got a lot of posting to do to catch up to number 1.

(referring to googles stats on this group)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?