We are familiar with the behaviour of bridges in winds and to
synchronised traffic. Likewise the destruction of buildings that can
take place with and earthquake's waves.

Here is a picture of the resonance of a molecule:
http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=76

What it points out is that the shape of things is not necessarily
their true form.

In article
,
Weatherlawyer wrote:

We are familiar with the behaviour of bridges in winds and to
synchronised traffic.

We are?

Can you point out the problem with the Tacoma Narrows bridge? Can you
describe why the same thing doesn't happen with the Golden Gate Bridge?
Can you describe what was wrong with the new pedestrian bridge over the
Thames?

Likewise the destruction of buildings that can
take place with and earthquake's waves.

Yes, we are familiar with earthquake's waves (though I'm sure you meant
earthquakes' waves). But the destruction of buildings that can take
place with what?

Here is a picture of the resonance of a molecule:
http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=76

What it points out is that the shape of things is not necessarily
their true form.

Oh. Wow. That's really deep.

--
Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

The graphic linked to below reminded me of a representation I once saw
of the true nature of our orbits"s" around not the sun , so much as
the galaxy. I'd read of it as some sort of continuous sinusoidal wave.
But had never been able to picture it.

I suppose I must thank TV for that. When I got one though, it felt
like I was re-embedding in western society. Not necessarily a pleasant
thought.

But, back to business:

We are familiar with the behaviour of bridges in winds "of the wrong
frequency" and to synchronised traffic. The destruction wrought is
similar to that of buildings that takes place with earthquake waves.

Here is a picture of the resonance of a molecule:
http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=76

What it points out is that the shape of things is not necessarily
their true form.

Gravity cells on the moon affect its trajectory. The resolution of the
energy switches that they become in the three body problem causes our
weather and more..

Well, that is my opinion and I don't expect anyone to follow what I
say. They haven't yet. Still, I get such a kick out of being right
eventually/most of the time that I thought it time to venture out into
deeper waters.

The moon weighs some 1/81st the mass of the earth. They act as a
couple and should be considered one planet. They can't for instance be
separated from each other without doing incredible damage to their
relative positions to the other planets and to their astronomical
distance.

But they are distinct and do have different speeds. Consider that in
exchange for its capture, the moon travels so much further than us
each year. Whilst the earth is orbiting at some 2Pi x 93 million miles
per year, the moon is in effect orbiting the sun 12 to 13 x 2Pi x
250,000 miles or so further than the earth in that time period.

But as I said, things are not just what they seem. We for instance
orbit the same star at different speeds. Those living on the equator
orbit the earth at a serious rate of knots faster than denizens of
California and Florida.

And here in Blighty, we Blighters traverse the skies at a somewhat
lower velocity.

But I digress.

Small deviations in the path of the moon from where Newtonian
Celestial Mechanics declare it aught to be are due to the centre of
gravity varying not with the centre of the moon (or the barycentre)
assumed from the three body problem, but from the position of the
various gravitational anomalies and the disposition of the inertia in
that three body problem:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...orbit/fig8.jpg

It is a matter so complex as to dwarf the maths required to plot the
position of the moon using the methods developed from the end of the
19th century. And it is invariably explained using theories posed by
Albert Einstein.

However if the vibrations induced in such a motor as the earth moon
and sun is, causes the reaction known as weather and seismic
disturbance, the result should in some way related to fractals and
that picture linked to in the OP -and its replacement # :~))#.

Now suppose all this reaction was capable of shaking the planet. (As
with the moon, this shaking is of the whole planet not the individual
"small particles" beloved of those who attempt to explain tides.)

The moon out of the equation for this consideration; it leaves us with
the effect of vibration in the earth. Suppose that this vibration
consists of an harmonic that when imposed upon the next shake and the
next, a wave-train takes shape that has the effect of sound. What
would it look like?

http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=22
Shows what can happen when a stream of sound is set up inside an
arena. Far from making random waves of "white noise", a pattern flows.

It is my contention that the pattern changes according to the time of
the phase of the moon.

On Nov 23, 1:57 am, "
wrote:
Now suppose all this reaction was capable of shaking the planet. (As
with the moon, this shaking is of the whole planet not the individual
"small particles" beloved of those who attempt to explain tides.)

The moon out of the equation for this consideration; it leaves us with
the effect of vibration in the earth. Suppose that this vibration
consists of an harmonic that when imposed upon the next shake and the
next, a wave-train takes shape that has the effect of sound. What
would it look like?

http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=22
Shows what can happen when a stream of sound is set up inside an
arena. Far from making random waves of "white noise", a pattern flows.

It is my contention that...

....such a pattern occurs within and just above the surface of the
earth and that...

the pattern changes according to the time of the phase of the moon.

Thought I'd better make that clear -obvious though the meaning is.

In uk.sci.astronomy message 3c047346-7d77-45d8-b8a5-a36b8756047c@g21g20
00hsh.googlegroups.com, Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:28:09, Weatherlawyer
posted:

The moon weighs some 1/81st the mass of the earth.
...
But they are distinct and do have different speeds. Consider that in
exchange for its capture, the moon travels so much further than us
each year. Whilst the earth is orbiting at some 2Pi x 93 million miles
per year, the moon is in effect orbiting the sun 12 to 13 x 2Pi x
250,000 miles or so further than the earth in that time period.

Nonsense. That is the calculation for both doing a circular 93 Mmi
orbit, and the Moon independently doing 12-13 250 kMi orbits. That is
not what they do. That is like calculating the distance from
Abergavenny to Aberystwyth by adding the distance from Abergavenny to
Ashby-de-la-Zouch to the distance from Ashby-de-la-Zouch to Aberystwyth.

It is easy to show that the Moon's orbit is everywhere concave towards
the Sun, from which it is clear that the annual distance covered by the
Moon is only marginally greater than that covered by the Earth.

To determine said distance, take the vector sum of the Earth's velocity
with respect to the Sun and the Moon's velocity with respect to the
Earth, and integrate for a year.



// Units : Miles, Years. All approximate.
p2 = 2 * Math.PI
EarthSpeed = 93e6 * p2 // wrt Sun
MoonSpeed = 240e3 * p2 * 12 // wrt Earth

Steps = 10000 ; Tot = 0
J = Steps ; while (J--) { T = J/Steps
EarthXSpeed = EarthSpeed * Math.sin(T*p2)
EarthYSpeed = EarthSpeed * Math.cos(T*p2)

MoonXSpeed = MoonSpeed * Math.sin(12*T*p2)
MoonYSpeed = MoonSpeed * Math.cos(12*T*p2)

MoonVelocity = Math.sqrt(
Math.pow(EarthXSpeed+MoonXSpeed, 2) +
Math.pow(EarthYSpeed+MoonYSpeed, 2) )
Tot += MoonVelocity/Steps
}

Tot|0 // output integer part



So Path Length is : 584476336 Miles.
Put Moon distance = 0 : 584336233 " .
Difference : 140103 " - not a lot.
Your answer : 18095574 " - FAR TOO BIG.



The above Javascript was executed in my Web page js-quick.htm. Check
the algebra. Now built into my page gravity3.htm .

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

On Nov 23, 11:34 pm, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.sci.astronomy message 3c047346-7d77-45d8-b8a5-a36b8756047c@g21g20
00hsh.googlegroups.com, Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:28:09, Weatherlawyer
posted:

The moon weighs some 1/81st the mass of the earth.
...
But they are distinct and do have different speeds. Consider that in
exchange for its capture, the moon travels so much further than us
each year. Whilst the earth is orbiting at some 2Pi x 93 million miles
per year, the moon is in effect orbiting the sun 12 to 13 x 2Pi x
250,000 miles or so further than the earth in that time period.

Nonsense. That is the calculation for both doing a circular 93 Mmi
orbit, and the Moon independently doing 12-13 250 kMi orbits. That is
not what they do. That is like calculating the distance from
Abergavenny to Aberystwyth by adding the distance from Abergavenny to
Ashby-de-la-Zouch to the distance from Ashby-de-la-Zouch to Aberystwyth.

It is easy to show that the Moon's orbit is everywhere concave towards
the Sun, from which it is clear that the annual distance covered by the
Moon is only marginally greater than that covered by the Earth.

To determine said distance, take the vector sum of the Earth's velocity
with respect to the Sun and the Moon's velocity with respect to the
Earth, and integrate for a year.

// Units : Miles, Years. All approximate.
p2 = 2 * Math.PI
EarthSpeed = 93e6 * p2 // wrt Sun
MoonSpeed = 240e3 * p2 * 12 // wrt Earth

Steps = 10000 ; Tot = 0
J = Steps ; while (J--) { T = J/Steps
EarthXSpeed = EarthSpeed * Math.sin(T*p2)
EarthYSpeed = EarthSpeed * Math.cos(T*p2)

MoonXSpeed = MoonSpeed * Math.sin(12*T*p2)
MoonYSpeed = MoonSpeed * Math.cos(12*T*p2)

MoonVelocity = Math.sqrt(
Math.pow(EarthXSpeed+MoonXSpeed, 2) +
Math.pow(EarthYSpeed+MoonYSpeed, 2) )
Tot += MoonVelocity/Steps
}

Tot|0 // output integer part

So Path Length is : 584476336 Miles.
Put Moon distance = 0 : 584336233 " .
Difference : 140103 " - not a lot.
Your answer : 18095574 " - FAR TOO BIG.

The above Javascript was executed in my Web page js-quick.htm. Check
the algebra. Now built into my page gravity3.htm .

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

Thank friend.

I am relieved that you were not going to involve yourself in tearing
out a crank with ad hominem attacks. It seems to be a favourite
pastime with those who have given up on me.

As for my post, I wasn't getting into astrometry so much as trying to
highlight that the moon makes a lot of effort on our behalf.

Whatever the niceties of the situation, the rolling around of the
months is a bumpy ride and the inertia between all the myriads of
algorithms involved in watching it give us the go-by, leave a little
to be desired of Classical Mechanics.

And it is this difference in acceleration between such huge celestial
objects that sets up the vibes I am trying to discuss. It is I
believe, somewhat similar to the perturbations in satellites observed
over regions such as the Mid Atlantic Ridge.

On Nov 23, 12:18 am, Weatherlawyer wrote:

Here is a picture of the resonance of a molecule:http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...e=image;iid=76

What it points out is that the shape of things is not necessarily
their true form.

A word from the artist:

"Art has a unique capacity convey insights, intuitively and
emotionally, about complex subject matter. If there is a short circuit
to wisdom, it is through art. I try to exploit the powers of art to
relate secrets of Nature only recently uncovered.

A key element in my work is exploitation of Nature's almost
narcissistic self-similarity, her repetition of pattern on vastly
different scales and in radically different contexts.

Consider the motion of the planets around the sun and electrons
orbiting a nucleus, or waves on water and electron waves in a
semiconductor. With such repetition, Nature provides her own windows
into otherwise secret worlds. The images I produce always relate to
concurrent research.

Since September 2004, I have been investigating freak or rogue waves
in the ocean. The Rogue image series arises from the complex branching
patterns of energy flow that result as ocean waves negotiate a sea
filled with complex currents (like the Gulf Stream and the eddies that
it spins off).

Almost exactly the same patterns arise on a scale one hundred billion
times smaller as electron waves negotiate paths through
semiconductors. Both phenomena generate branching patterns familiar
from trees and erosion landscapes.

The branches are the danger zones: places where rogue waves are more
likely to develop. The branches result from an unexpected focusing of
wave energy. These images, at the same time abstract and literal,
convey some of the mechanisms, the complexity, and the awesome danger
of rogue ocean-wave formation.

http://www.ericjhellergallery.com/in...ge=aboutartist