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Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
The following is an e-mail exchange between myself and James Pate, who
I believe is the Air Traffic Manager at Trenton-Mercer Airport. Its ridiculous the lengths these guys will go to avoid responsibility for augmenting the ASOS. From: "Raymond C. Martin, Jr." To: James Pate Subject: Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:12:42 -0800 (PST) --- James Pate wrote: Mr. Martin, Could you please provide me with the date and times the ASOS wasn't augmented? I will check with the weather service. Also please note the ASOS is never augmented during hours when the tower is closed. Please feel free to contact me with feedback about this problem 609-882-4422. Thank you for your concern...Jim Pate Air Traffic Manager Trenton Tower Here are the observations from the afternoon of March 8, 2005: KTTN 081653Z 34022G31KT 1 3/4SM -SN OVC014 M02/M06 A2912 RMK AO2 PK WND 32031/1649 SLP854 P0000 T10221061 $= KTTN 081753Z 33023G31KT 1/2SM FZFG BKN003 OVC012 M04/M07 A2911 RMK AO2 PK WND 34031/1753 SNEMM SLP851 P0001 60012 T10441067 10078 21044 50001 $= KTTN 081853Z 32013G23KT 1SM -SN BKN005 OVC013 M05/M08 A2911 RMK AO2 PK WND 32031/1754 SNB43 SLP851 P0001 T10501078 $= Note the middle observation is lacking the snow (only reporting freezing fog) and is missing a snow end time (SNEMM). It appears that the precipitation sensor failed, but no correction was issued indicating the moderate snow falling at the time, per nearby observations and radar. --- James Pate wrote: Good morning Mr. Martin, I just had to get into work and verify the logs from March 8th. I was the observer on duty for the 3 observations you noted. The Freezing fog was correct. Although there was snow in the area, the 1753Z obscuration to visibility was freezing fog and not snow. The ASOS takes a snapshot of what is in the vicinity at the time of the observation. With 1/2 mile visibility, which was verified by ground referance points, it could be possible to have snow on the approach end of RWY 24 and neither the ASOS or observer would be able to observe it. Please call me about this at 609-882-4422. Thank you very much for your feedback...Jim Pate ATM Trenton FCT I'm sorry, but you are just plain lying. Are you really going to tell me that this radar was completely wrong and no precipitation was falling at the time???? http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/da...0Z-08Mar05.gif This is a constant problem from KTTN, observations which are NEVER corrected. You guys do absolutely no work, in regards to augmentation. I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm actually a meteorologist from the area and pay close attention to the KTTN observations all the time, especialy during snow, and they are NEVER augmented at all. I've seen so many times when the precip sensor failed and all that was reported was freezing fog, when it was clearly snowing moderatley to heavily. You make me sick, sir. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
wrote in news:1112039054.757746.289480
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: The following is an e-mail exchange between myself and James Pate, who I believe is the Air Traffic Manager at Trenton-Mercer Airport. Its ridiculous the lengths these guys will go to avoid responsibility for augmenting the ASOS. wrote in news:1112039054.757746.289480 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: .... Please call me about this at 609-882-4422. Thank you very much for your feedback...Jim Pate ATM Trenton FCT I'm sorry, but you are just plain lying. Are you... ... You make me sick, sir. Raymond, The fellow took the time to respond to you and even offered that you call him on the phone. Whether he is right or wrong, place yourself in his shoes and think real hard about whether he would be willing to continue the exchange. It may seem black and white to you, but you will go farther if you accept that the rest of the world has an unconventional way of looking at these things, and if nothing else deserves a little respect. You have to be more accepting. Seriously, give yourself a chance; you are outnumbered. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Way to stand behind that Accu Weather name Raymond!! Sure the boss
appreciates your dialogue, which actually could have made great strides had you passed English 15 at Penn State. Unfortunately, Mr. Holier Than Thou (that's you) comes off with a complete lack of tact, decency, and respect plus an attitude that befits a foul tempered 14 year old. You honestly got sick over an unaugmented weather observation? I'm beginning to think you're achieving kook status! You think you made TTN look bad? Think again. That dialogue is a total embarassment to none other than yourself. I'm surpried Mr. Pate gave you the curteous reply that he did! Quite frankly, you deserve to have sausages shoved down your throat and starving dogs up your butt. It's unfortunate because you attempted to call attention to a long standing problem since the FAA took over observations, but the manner in which you have done so certainly won't win you any friends on either side of the playing field. Maybe you ought to stick to desk work which doesn't involve any communication with other human beings, or at least take a few classes in communications because you really are hurting yourself. Office Space anyone? wrote in message oups.com... The following is an e-mail exchange between myself and James Pate, who I believe is the Air Traffic Manager at Trenton-Mercer Airport. Its ridiculous the lengths these guys will go to avoid responsibility for augmenting the ASOS. From: "Raymond C. Martin, Jr." To: James Pate Subject: Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:12:42 -0800 (PST) --- James Pate wrote: Mr. Martin, Could you please provide me with the date and times the ASOS wasn't augmented? I will check with the weather service. Also please note the ASOS is never augmented during hours when the tower is closed. Please feel free to contact me with feedback about this problem 609-882-4422. Thank you for your concern...Jim Pate Air Traffic Manager Trenton Tower Here are the observations from the afternoon of March 8, 2005: KTTN 081653Z 34022G31KT 1 3/4SM -SN OVC014 M02/M06 A2912 RMK AO2 PK WND 32031/1649 SLP854 P0000 T10221061 $= KTTN 081753Z 33023G31KT 1/2SM FZFG BKN003 OVC012 M04/M07 A2911 RMK AO2 PK WND 34031/1753 SNEMM SLP851 P0001 60012 T10441067 10078 21044 50001 $= KTTN 081853Z 32013G23KT 1SM -SN BKN005 OVC013 M05/M08 A2911 RMK AO2 PK WND 32031/1754 SNB43 SLP851 P0001 T10501078 $= Note the middle observation is lacking the snow (only reporting freezing fog) and is missing a snow end time (SNEMM). It appears that the precipitation sensor failed, but no correction was issued indicating the moderate snow falling at the time, per nearby observations and radar. --- James Pate wrote: Good morning Mr. Martin, I just had to get into work and verify the logs from March 8th. I was the observer on duty for the 3 observations you noted. The Freezing fog was correct. Although there was snow in the area, the 1753Z obscuration to visibility was freezing fog and not snow. The ASOS takes a snapshot of what is in the vicinity at the time of the observation. With 1/2 mile visibility, which was verified by ground referance points, it could be possible to have snow on the approach end of RWY 24 and neither the ASOS or observer would be able to observe it. Please call me about this at 609-882-4422. Thank you very much for your feedback...Jim Pate ATM Trenton FCT I'm sorry, but you are just plain lying. Are you really going to tell me that this radar was completely wrong and no precipitation was falling at the time???? http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/da...0Z-08Mar05.gif This is a constant problem from KTTN, observations which are NEVER corrected. You guys do absolutely no work, in regards to augmentation. I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm actually a meteorologist from the area and pay close attention to the KTTN observations all the time, especialy during snow, and they are NEVER augmented at all. I've seen so many times when the precip sensor failed and all that was reported was freezing fog, when it was clearly snowing moderatley to heavily. You make me sick, sir. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
MeatyUrologist wrote:
It's unfortunate because you attempted to call attention to a long standing problem since the FAA took over observations, but the manner in which you have done so certainly won't win you any friends on either side of the playing field. Maybe you ought to stick to desk work which doesn't involve any communication with other human beings, or at least take a few classes in communications because you really are hurting yourself. Office Space anyone? Not to mention that it's **** poor to post a personal email exchange, and even worse to leave the guy's phone number in there. I doubt there are any good intentions on Raymond's part. He comes off as a obsessive kook. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
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Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Fortunately, I recieved better and more intelligent advice elsewhere...
that figures, of course: From a NWS employee: "...I must say, I think Ray's got every right to be angry. The guy's pretty clearly BS'ing him, he's got evidence to back his claims up. He may be able to definitively prove repeated negligence by the person (or people) tasked with augmenting the observation (during a severe weather event, no less), which makes for a very dangerous situation for aviation & thus the public in general." From an FAA employee: "Lazy? No. You can call air traffic controllers many things, but lazy is not one of them. I think this is a battle you are going to lose. In all my travel's I have yet to see a FAA or NFCT (Non-Federal "Contract" Tower) augment ASOS as the rules imply. I don't think it is appropriate to single out KTTN. For example, during a hurricane in Florida last summer a temperature sensor failed on an ASOS augmented by a control tower. Because the wind was so strong the precip discrimintator thought that it was snow and thus it was snowing in central Florida during a hurricane, or at least that is what the METAR indicated. The tone I got from your message's indicate to me that you don't understand what is really going on here. NATCA (the air traffic controller union) along with other groups including the GAO (General Accounting Office) petitioned the government many times in the 80s and early 90s saying that ASOS was unsafe and frequently inaccurate. They asked the NWS and FAA not to implement the system. They also asked that the FAA not close down FSS stations (which took manual observations at many stations) and that the NWS not close down the local WSO offices. The government implemented ASOS, closed down FSS's and WSO's and gave controllers the responsibility of augmenting the system. While most controllers I know are certified weather observers, they have not been trained properly in observing weather. They really don't understand how ASOS does what it does nor how to correct it when it is not representative. Not only that, but they've never been trained to accurately observe the weather...they've only been trained to take the written exam. Some controllers know how to observe weather. However, as some of you may know, there is a shortage of air traffic controllers and as such many are overworked and overstressed. Sometimes, they just don't have time to augment ASOS because they are doing other things. NATCA and air traffic controllers in general see ASOS as a liability. Most of them just leave the unit "as is" because either they don't want to take responsibility for what they see as faulty equipment or they really don't know how to augment it correctly and take a good observation. At larger airports with more commercial air traffic there are contract weather offices which augment ASOS METAR's. While these stations tend to augment properly, in my view I still see significant errors in coding and observing practices at some sites. Attacking controllers that in most cases do their job (seperating air traffic) very well, or attacking former/current government policy isn't going to get you very far. NWS modernization gave observation responbility to the FAA. I think if you gave the NWS responsibility for seperating air traffic that would become a disaster as well. If you really want to pursue this, I would suggest writing to either the FAA headquarters (Jane Darvey is the head I believe), or the FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) for Trenton. FSDO's are a branch of the FAA that deal with certification and safety issues...don't quote me on this but I believe the FSDO for Trenton is Atlantic City. Becareful what you say though, you are dealing with the federal gov't...too much critcism and you get a one way ticket to Gitmo! I think there is also a program manager for the METAR/contract weather program...but who it is or where to find him I'm not sure. Your quest is a noble one, but unfortunately the FAA is just not interested in observing weather accurately. I work at a Service level A contract weather office on the East Coast and unfortunately the only back up equipment we have to ASOS is one electronic psychrometer (hand held) and one dry-wet bulb sling. That's it! No backup precip, wind, pressure, etc... Too bad the NWS still isn't controlling observation practices...I think we'd all be better off. It is common knowledge among aviator types that the Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood (meaning, the FAA will not change the rules unless someone dies or a horrific crash happens). 9/11 anyone? While we can all hope ASOS won't be responsible for another 3,000+ deaths, unfortunately maybe it will take another accident before the FAA changes its policies. As a side note, I forgot to mention this in my previous post...there was a accident at a Florida airport several years ago where a pilot crashed while on an approach in dense fog. The tower was found 1/3 liable for the accident because THEY DID NOT AUGMENT ASOS and it was unrepresentative in its visibility report. However, I don't think the pilot died so that is probably why I haven't heard how the FAA would correct the problem. Also, you may want to bring your gripe to the IBEX weather site. IBEX is a contract weather observation company...they have stations all over the country that do METARs. You may want to post a few questions on that site and see what some of the observers will tell you how to handle it. They are all trained and well qualified observers at the larger airports, so they feel your pain when it comes to inaccurate observations. http://www.ibexwx.com/ Again, good luck." ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
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Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
EdM wrote:
wrote in news:1112107667.081738.294380 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Fortunately, I recieved better and more intelligent advice elsewhere... that figures, of course: It is indeed fortunate that you received legitimate responses to such a belligerent and ill conceived post. No one is arguing that freezing fog was likely the result of a proper manual augmentation. But your cries will fall upon deaf ears unless you refine your approach. The fact that several people gave you that advice and your response was to imply that they are wrong because they are posting here tells me that you just don't get it. I've always written your loose-cannon approach off to youthful exhuberence, but if you don't get over it soon, it will turn into something that will create life-long difficulties for you. This is the last time (I think) that I will risk a flaming by counseling you against self-inflicting wounds. Its your life, but an open mind will save you from a lot of future grief. My point was not simply regarding posts like this one, but to the state of this place in general... for example, here is the list of the most recent topics as listed on Google Groups: Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport Bartlo thinks Jackson is sexy [ Pest posts, March 12-26 Is it time for ****seph Blerto's psest lits, yet? NOMINATION - Vito Kuhn for 72 Raisins "Crackpot Religion" Award (Fwd) Norm Nowrecki - Kookology - And The Sands Of Time Another one of my predictions FOAM WARNING Barlo Blows Billygoats 6th Annual NE.Wx Snowfall Forecast Contest #8 - The Forecasts digest, volume 2453447 Killington, VT Change of Seasons Major East coast event tomm BARTLO M E L T D O W N UPDATE Weekend Reading Life support Forecast Contest? Pictures from State College, from yesterday and this morning Petrus -your PC date is one day ahead it WAS all about oil! The BIG Winners... For once, NOT a New England storm... AccuWeather Channel the furure= future JB Wins Over DT? NO!!! Coastal next week? Where is Bartlo? A ? for Mike Moriarty: Ann Arbor's Snowiest? Amarillo ; Calling out Dr Harvie.... Dignity I mean, for Pete's sake, half the topics are ridiculous... Then, we come to what has been increasingly annoying about this place... attacks. For example: I posted the AccuWeather Channel news release. No, not to make Joel happy or whatever you sick pathetic losers here think, but because I thought SOME of you might just be a little interested. Instead, MeatyUrologist makes one of the most insulting responses I have ever read, for NO reason except perhaps the fact that he is actually a NWS employee who hates us as much as SOME (not all) at AccuWeather hate him. Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... I could even mention the "blizzard condition" debates... TQ was the star in those, of course... The fact of the matter is that this is a deplorable place to discuss anything. Only reason I still post here at all is to annoy the hell out of those who would rather see me leave....there are certainly better places to discuss the weather on the 'net. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
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Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Thanks for the spotlight. If you can see my posts, they range from totally
coherent, scientific and thoughful (see above), to the ludicrous/sarcastic (bordering Mr. Moriarty fame). The type of post you receive is based on the sensefulness and relevance of the original post. Do I think you toot your own employer's horn to much? You bet! And why? Just once I want to hear 5 reasons why someone would WANT to work there, because from numerous 1st person dealings, there is a strong desire to leave despite being held captive by Bubba the jail master. Companies that treat their employees well (through pay, work environment, duty hours, etc...) don't have contracts because they don't have turnover (especially in such an awesome city as SCE). End of discussion. wrote in message ups.com... EdM wrote: wrote in news:1112107667.081738.294380 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Fortunately, I recieved better and more intelligent advice elsewhere... that figures, of course: It is indeed fortunate that you received legitimate responses to such a belligerent and ill conceived post. No one is arguing that freezing fog was likely the result of a proper manual augmentation. But your cries will fall upon deaf ears unless you refine your approach. The fact that several people gave you that advice and your response was to imply that they are wrong because they are posting here tells me that you just don't get it. I've always written your loose-cannon approach off to youthful exhuberence, but if you don't get over it soon, it will turn into something that will create life-long difficulties for you. This is the last time (I think) that I will risk a flaming by counseling you against self-inflicting wounds. Its your life, but an open mind will save you from a lot of future grief. My point was not simply regarding posts like this one, but to the state of this place in general... for example, here is the list of the most recent topics as listed on Google Groups: Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport Bartlo thinks Jackson is sexy [ Pest posts, March 12-26 Is it time for ****seph Blerto's psest lits, yet? NOMINATION - Vito Kuhn for 72 Raisins "Crackpot Religion" Award (Fwd) Norm Nowrecki - Kookology - And The Sands Of Time Another one of my predictions FOAM WARNING Barlo Blows Billygoats 6th Annual NE.Wx Snowfall Forecast Contest #8 - The Forecasts digest, volume 2453447 Killington, VT Change of Seasons Major East coast event tomm BARTLO M E L T D O W N UPDATE Weekend Reading Life support Forecast Contest? Pictures from State College, from yesterday and this morning Petrus -your PC date is one day ahead it WAS all about oil! The BIG Winners... For once, NOT a New England storm... AccuWeather Channel the furure= future JB Wins Over DT? NO!!! Coastal next week? Where is Bartlo? A ? for Mike Moriarty: Ann Arbor's Snowiest? Amarillo ; Calling out Dr Harvie.... Dignity I mean, for Pete's sake, half the topics are ridiculous... Then, we come to what has been increasingly annoying about this place... attacks. For example: I posted the AccuWeather Channel news release. No, not to make Joel happy or whatever you sick pathetic losers here think, but because I thought SOME of you might just be a little interested. Instead, MeatyUrologist makes one of the most insulting responses I have ever read, for NO reason except perhaps the fact that he is actually a NWS employee who hates us as much as SOME (not all) at AccuWeather hate him. Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... I could even mention the "blizzard condition" debates... TQ was the star in those, of course... The fact of the matter is that this is a deplorable place to discuss anything. Only reason I still post here at all is to annoy the hell out of those who would rather see me leave....there are certainly better places to discuss the weather on the 'net. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
In any case, it appears many of your colleagues in the NWS have seen my
posting here as an attack on the NWS... which it certainly is NOT. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
wrote:
EdM wrote: wrote in news:1112107667.081738.294380 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Fortunately, I recieved better and more intelligent advice elsewhere... that figures, of course: It is indeed fortunate that you received legitimate responses to such a belligerent and ill conceived post. No one is arguing that freezing fog was likely the result of a proper manual augmentation. But your cries will fall upon deaf ears unless you refine your approach. The fact that several people gave you that advice and your response was to imply that they are wrong because they are posting here tells me that you just don't get it. I've always written your loose-cannon approach off to youthful exhuberence, but if you don't get over it soon, it will turn into something that will create life-long difficulties for you. This is the last time (I think) that I will risk a flaming by counseling you against self-inflicting wounds. Its your life, but an open mind will save you from a lot of future grief. **************** Clearly, I have changed my mind yet again...good thing I left the little hedge in there. **************** My point was not simply regarding posts like this one, but to the state of this place in general... for example, here is the list of the most recent topics as listed on Google Groups: Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport Bartlo thinks Jackson is sexy [ Pest posts, March 12-26 etc ... I mean, for Pete's sake, half the topics are ridiculous... Then, we come to what has been increasingly annoying about this place... attacks. For example: I posted the AccuWeather Channel news release. No, not to make Joel happy or whatever you sick pathetic losers here think, **************** Who is a sick pathetic loser? This is not a good foundation for a persuasive argument. **************** but because I thought SOME of you might just be a little interested. Instead, MeatyUrologist makes one of the most insulting responses I have ever read, for NO reason except perhaps the fact that he is actually a NWS employee who hates us as much as SOME (not all) at AccuWeather hate him. **************** I don't know who he is or who he knows at accuweather, so I guess I'll just have to take your word for that. **************** Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... **************** Actually, that was pretty funny. I recently saw George Hamilton (older actor, hair always in place, rediculously dark tan, etc...) making fun of himself and his tanning/grooming habits, etc. He has been the target of ridicule for those traits in the past, but comes off as maybe just being a decent guy anyway because he is willing to have a little fun instead of getting defensive and ****ed off. This might be a good model for you to consider. The fortress on Science Park road sounds like an inside joke, which strikes me as more of an attempt to bond...or at least heal wounds, than as an attempt to harm you. You need to work on your sense of humor. **************** I could even mention the "blizzard condition" debates... TQ was the star in those, of course... **************** I felt that he was playing the supporting role of straight man ;-) **************** The fact of the matter is that this is a deplorable place to discuss anything. **************** It still works for me. **************** Only reason I still post here at all is to annoy the hell out of those who would rather see me leave....there are certainly better places to discuss the weather on the 'net. **************** You are doing a better job of annoying those who would rather see you stay. **************** ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
wrote in message ups.com... [boorish termper tantrum snipped] I could even mention the "blizzard condition" debates... TQ was the star in those, of course... Ray, you ignorant slut. A debate is where fact-based arguments are presented in defense of opposing opinions. Your opinion about what constitutes blizzard conditions had no basis in fact b/c you relied on notoriously unreliable sources -- WFO web pages -- to support your position. When presented with hard, verifiable facts from unrefutable sources, your arrogance and hubris prevented you from admitting your error. Instead, you continued to defend your position by invoking blizzard 'warning' criterion for vsby (=1/4 SM), which is different than the observed vsby criterion ( 1/4SM). Tsk-tsk-tsk. As a 'professional meteorologist,' you should know the definitions and the difference between the two if you expect to have any credibility when discussing this phenomenon. If you don/t know the difference and want to maintain any semblence of integrity, then you should admit as much, thank those who showed you the error of your ways, and stop having hissy-fits in public. Love, TQ PS - Your reaction to this FAA bu**** is none too surprising when you consider the how 'Ray Martin' easily transforms into 'AIR MY RANT!' |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Gentlemen,
I apologize for my previous statements regarding deception. However, I still maintain that, at least at the time I specified, the ASOS at KTTN was not accurately portraying the weather at the airport, based on nearby observations, evidence from the issued observation from KTTN, radar imagery, and information from several family members who live within 2 miles of the airport. I think that perhaps, a change in reporting practice from the ASOS would be helpful for the user and observer. For example, when the ASOS is standalone (AUTO), the following distress codes are issued at the end of the observation during an instance such as what occured on March 8: SNEMM PWINO FZRANO However, when the ASOS is in augmentation mode, the PWINO FZRANO are not included, with only the SNEMM indicating a problem with the sensors. This is also the case with other sensor distress codes, such as TSNO. I believe it would be in everyone's interests if this was changed so that, even while the ASOS is being augmented, the sensor error codes were displayed. This would alert the augmentor that there are problems with the unit severely affecting performance requiring augmentation, while alerting the end-user to be more skeptical of the observation. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
wrote in
oups.com: I'm sorry, but you are just plain lying. Are you really going to tell me that this radar was completely wrong and no precipitation was falling at the time???? http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/da...0Z-08Mar05.gif This is a constant problem from KTTN, observations which are NEVER corrected. You guys do absolutely no work, in regards to augmentation. I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm actually a meteorologist from the area and pay close attention to the KTTN observations all the time, especialy during snow, and they are NEVER augmented at all. I've seen so many times when the precip sensor failed and all that was reported was freezing fog, when it was clearly snowing moderatley to heavily. You make me sick, sir. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ Yeah, this'll get results. How childish. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Sandy A. Nicolaysen wrote:
Raymond: Arguing with James is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard. Let it go. - Sandy in Princeton You may be right, but I still had to try... ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
MeatyUrologist wrote:
Way to stand behind that Accu Weather name Raymond!! Sure the boss appreciates your dialogue, which actually could have made great strides had you passed English 15 at Penn State. Unfortunately, Mr. Holier Than Thou (that's you) comes off with a complete lack of tact, decency, and respect plus an attitude that befits a foul tempered 14 year old. You honestly got sick over an unaugmented weather observation? I'm beginning to think you're achieving kook status! You think you made TTN look bad? Think again. That dialogue is a total embarassment to none other than yourself. I'm surpried Mr. Pate gave you the curteous reply that he did! Quite frankly, you deserve to have sausages shoved down your throat and starving dogs up your butt. You are very disgusting and perverted. And why would you be surprised at Pate's courteous reply? Up until then (which was, again, clearly a BS'ing reply), I was also courteous. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Gary M wrote:
MeatyUrologist wrote: It's unfortunate because you attempted to call attention to a long standing problem since the FAA took over observations, but the manner in which you have done so certainly won't win you any friends on either side of the playing field. Maybe you ought to stick to desk work which doesn't involve any communication with other human beings, or at least take a few classes in communications because you really are hurting yourself. Office Space anyone? Not to mention that it's **** poor to post a personal email exchange, and even worse to leave the guy's phone number in there. I doubt there are any good intentions on Raymond's part. He comes off as a obsessive kook. No, I come off as a taxpayer who's peeved at the lack of quality I'm getting for my mone. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
EdM wrote:
wrote: Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... **************** Actually, that was pretty funny. I recently saw George Hamilton (older actor, hair always in place, rediculously dark tan, etc...) making fun of himself and his tanning/grooming habits, etc. He has been the target of ridicule for those traits in the past, but comes off as maybe just being a decent guy anyway because he is willing to have a little fun instead of getting defensive and ****ed off. This might be a good model for you to consider. The fortress on Science Park road sounds like an inside joke, which strikes me as more of an attempt to bond...or at least heal wounds, than as an attempt to harm you. You need to work on your sense of humor. **************** I bet if I made a joke like that about the NWS, I wouldn't generate anywhere near the kind of amusement from others as you suggest was generated by MeatyUrologist's comment. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
TQ wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... [boorish termper tantrum snipped] I could even mention the "blizzard condition" debates... TQ was the star in those, of course... Ray, you ignorant slut. A debate is where fact-based arguments are presented in defense of opposing opinions. Your opinion about what constitutes blizzard conditions had no basis in fact b/c you relied on notoriously unreliable sources -- WFO web pages -- to support your position. When presented with hard, verifiable facts from unrefutable sources, your arrogance and hubris prevented you from admitting your error. Instead, you continued to defend your position by invoking blizzard 'warning' criterion for vsby (=1/4 SM), which is different than the observed vsby criterion ( 1/4SM). Tsk-tsk-tsk. As a 'professional meteorologist,' you should know the definitions and the difference between the two if you expect to have any credibility when discussing this phenomenon. If you don/t know the difference and want to maintain any semblence of integrity, then you should admit as much, thank those who showed you the error of your ways, and stop having hissy-fits in public. Love, TQ PS - Your reaction to this FAA bu**** is none too surprising when you consider the how 'Ray Martin' easily transforms into 'AIR MY RANT!' Only one response is appropriate here... LOL LMAO ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this
thread. What's next? A pest list? |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
wrote in news:1112305996.458610.132150
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: EdM wrote: wrote: Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... **************** Actually, that was pretty funny. I recently saw George Hamilton (older actor, hair always in place, rediculously dark tan, etc...) making fun of himself and his tanning/grooming habits, etc. He has been the target of ridicule for those traits in the past, but comes off as maybe just being a decent guy anyway because he is willing to have a little fun instead of getting defensive and ****ed off. This might be a good model for you to consider. The fortress on Science Park road sounds like an inside joke, which strikes me as more of an attempt to bond...or at least heal wounds, than as an attempt to harm you. You need to work on your sense of humor. **************** I bet if I made a joke like that about the NWS, I wouldn't generate anywhere near the kind of amusement from others as you suggest was generated by MeatyUrologist's comment. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ OK, lets try one and watch the outrage: It was October and the Indians on a remote reservation asked their new Chief if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a Chief in a modern society he had never been taught the old secrets. When he looked at the sky he couldn't tell what the winter was going to be like. Nevertheless, to be on the safe side he told his tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect firewood to be prepared. But being a practical leader, after several days he got an idea. He went to the phone booth, called the National Weather Service and asked, "Is the coming winter going to be cold?" "It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold" the meteorologist at the weather service responded. So the Chief went back to his people and told them to collect even more firewood in order to be prepared. A week later he called the National Weather Service again. "Does it still look like it is going to be a very cold winter?" "Yes," the man at National Weather Service again replied, "it's going to be a very cold winter." The Chief again went back to his people and ordered them to collect every scrap of firewood they could find. Two weeks later the Chief called the National Weather Service again. "Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?" "Absolutely," the man replied. "It's looking more and more like it is going to be one of the coldest winters ever." "How can you be so sure?" the Chief asked. The weatherman replied, "The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy." |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
He is right.
You ARE a retard. wrote in message ups.com... Sandy A. Nicolaysen wrote: Raymond: Arguing with James is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard. Let it go. - Sandy in Princeton You may be right, but I still had to try... ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Loser wanna be met wrote in message ups.com... MeatyUrologist wrote: Way to stand behind that Accu Weather name Raymond!! Sure the boss appreciates your dialogue, which actually could have made great strides had you passed English 15 at Penn State. Unfortunately, Mr. Holier Than Thou (that's you) comes off with a complete lack of tact, decency, and respect plus an attitude that befits a foul tempered 14 year old. You honestly got sick over an unaugmented weather observation? I'm beginning to think you're achieving kook status! You think you made TTN look bad? Think again. That dialogue is a total embarassment to none other than yourself. I'm surpried Mr. Pate gave you the curteous reply that he did! Quite frankly, you deserve to have sausages shoved down your throat and starving dogs up your butt. You are very disgusting and perverted. And why would you be surprised at Pate's courteous reply? Up until then (which was, again, clearly a BS'ing reply), I was also courteous. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
no you really do come off as a snobby little punk who no one will help cause you keep ****ing off all kinds of people here and in online groups like Wright-Weather etc. wrote in message ups.com... Gary M wrote: MeatyUrologist wrote: It's unfortunate because you attempted to call attention to a long standing problem since the FAA took over observations, but the manner in which you have done so certainly won't win you any friends on either side of the playing field. Maybe you ought to stick to desk work which doesn't involve any communication with other human beings, or at least take a few classes in communications because you really are hurting yourself. Office Space anyone? Not to mention that it's **** poor to post a personal email exchange, and even worse to leave the guy's phone number in there. I doubt there are any good intentions on Raymond's part. He comes off as a obsessive kook. No, I come off as a taxpayer who's peeved at the lack of quality I'm getting for my mone. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
AccuWeather must be sooo proud of their little punk ass bitch Associate
Weatherman Burger King called, there's an opening for a fry operator in 2 years...you might be a good candidate "TQ" ToweringQs AT adelphia.net wrote in message ... Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
EdM wrote:
wrote in news:1112305996.458610.132150 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: EdM wrote: wrote: Another one... I make a post bemoaning the lack of snow State College is receiving compared to normal and compared to my home town, and MeatyUrologist pops in again with "How much icing would it take to collapse the fortress on Science Park road? Worker's Comp!!!"... **************** Actually, that was pretty funny. I recently saw George Hamilton (older actor, hair always in place, rediculously dark tan, etc...) making fun of himself and his tanning/grooming habits, etc. He has been the target of ridicule for those traits in the past, but comes off as maybe just being a decent guy anyway because he is willing to have a little fun instead of getting defensive and ****ed off. This might be a good model for you to consider. The fortress on Science Park road sounds like an inside joke, which strikes me as more of an attempt to bond...or at least heal wounds, than as an attempt to harm you. You need to work on your sense of humor. **************** I bet if I made a joke like that about the NWS, I wouldn't generate anywhere near the kind of amusement from others as you suggest was generated by MeatyUrologist's comment. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ OK, lets try one and watch the outrage: It was October and the Indians on a remote reservation asked their new Chief if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a Chief in a modern society he had never been taught the old secrets. When he looked at the sky he couldn't tell what the winter was going to be like. Nevertheless, to be on the safe side he told his tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect firewood to be prepared. But being a practical leader, after several days he got an idea. He went to the phone booth, called the National Weather Service and asked, "Is the coming winter going to be cold?" "It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold" the meteorologist at the weather service responded. So the Chief went back to his people and told them to collect even more firewood in order to be prepared. A week later he called the National Weather Service again. "Does it still look like it is going to be a very cold winter?" "Yes," the man at National Weather Service again replied, "it's going to be a very cold winter." The Chief again went back to his people and ordered them to collect every scrap of firewood they could find. Two weeks later the Chief called the National Weather Service again. "Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?" "Absolutely," the man replied. "It's looking more and more like it is going to be one of the coldest winters ever." "How can you be so sure?" the Chief asked. The weatherman replied, "The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy." Heard this one b4. And besides, it doesn't matter if YOU post it, you don't work for AccuWeather. However, I bet it would feel more offensive (to people working for the NWS) if I posted it. Just as it offends us at AccuWeather when someone like MeatyUrologist (who is obviously an NWS employee), posts what he posted. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
"How can you be so sure?" the Chief asked. The weatherman replied, "The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy." Example of a "positive feedback mechanism" HtH |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
"TQ" ToweringQs AT adelphia.net wrote in
: Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? Ouch! |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
I would not argue for ASOS's termination.
Certainly, ASOS has done great deeds as far as extending our observations to new locations and extending the coverage time at stations that are only partially staffed. Its not perfect, but its helped alot. My issue is with these partially staffed stations that "say" they augment but really don't. In this case, the observations can lie to the user, because they don't display sensor alarms when they are 'supposedly' being augmented, whether they are REALLY being augmented or not. In fact, I would favor the observations always displaying AUTO unless the observer manually changes something in the observation. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
And just in case anyone gets the wrong idea and goes yelling at one of
my bosses... Disclaimer: The thoughts and opinions expressed by me on the boards/groups are in no way representative of AccuWeather, Inc. They are solely my own thoughts and opinions as a private citizen, taxpayer and professional meteorologist concerned about the quality of meteorological data. ===== Raymond C. Martin, Jr. Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/ New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/ Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/ |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
TQ wrote:
Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? This pest is giving the other pests a real run for their money - another dummy posting bull**** about a non-existent person. Just realize you are discussing things with a proven idiot (as I did here several times) Ray, and you'll do fine. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
GaryM wrote:
wrote in news:1112391638.479045.157960 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: Disclaimer: The thoughts and opinions expressed by me on the boards/groups are in no way representative of AccuWeather, Inc. They are solely my own thoughts and opinions as a private citizen, taxpayer and professional meteorologist concerned about the quality of meteorological data. And you think that protects you, do you? Hmmm, maybe the boy really is *that* naive. Maybe you are becoming a pest also. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
TQ wrote:
Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? I already proved you know almost nothing about statistics - now the question seems to be if you are smart enough to add. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
On 01 Apr 2005, Joseph Bartlo posted some
: TQ wrote: Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? This pest is giving the other pests a real run for their money - another dummy posting bull**** about a non-existent person. Jealous? Just realize you are discussing things with a proven idiot (as I did here several times) Ray, and you'll do fine. You lying sack of ****. You've been hiding out for weeks now. "Several" is long since expired. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Penas Sorus wrote:
On 01 Apr 2005, Joseph Bartlo posted some : TQ wrote: Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? This pest is giving the other pests a real run for their money - another dummy posting bull**** about a non-existent person. Jealous? Just realize you are discussing things with a proven idiot (as I did here several times) Ray, and you'll do fine. You lying sack of ****. You've been hiding out for weeks now. "Several" is long since expired. Congratulations, pest. You become the first person to be listed on the sci.geo.meteorology list of liars and pests. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
On 01 Apr 2005, Joseph Bartlo posted some
: Penas Sorus wrote: On 01 Apr 2005, Joseph Bartlo posted some : TQ wrote: Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? This pest is giving the other pests a real run for their money - another dummy posting bull**** about a non-existent person. Jealous? Just realize you are discussing things with a proven idiot (as I did here several times) Ray, and you'll do fine. You lying sack of ****. You've been hiding out for weeks now. "Several" is long since expired. Congratulations, pest. You become the first person to be listed on the sci.geo.meteorology list of liars and pests. I am SO honored. When will you be posting about weather again? |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
"Joseph Bartlo" wrote in message
... Penas Sorus wrote: On 01 Apr 2005, Joseph Bartlo posted some : TQ wrote: Wowzer, Ray! You/re giving Joey Buttmunch a real run for his money in this thread. What's next? A pest list? This pest is giving the other pests a real run for their money - another dummy posting bull**** about a non-existent person. Jealous? Just realize you are discussing things with a proven idiot (as I did here several times) Ray, and you'll do fine. You lying sack of ****. You've been hiding out for weeks now. "Several" is long since expired. Congratulations, pest. You become the first person to be listed on the sci.geo.meteorology list of liars and pests. Mr. Blorto, please take your off-topic crap elsewhere. Thanks. |
Lazy FAA Observer at Trenton-Mercer Airport
GaryM wrote:
Joseph Bartlo wrote in : Maybe you are becoming a pest also. I would be honored to make your list. It is really simple to avoid it - just post about weather, don't bother me, and don't support those that do bother me unprovoked. Doesn't even matter if anything you post is right or wrong. Is that so difficult ? |
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