Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

James Toupin wrote:
There is of course a technical problem with your "solution" that you are
overlooking: if these aluminium sequins are set adrift in orbit, what is to
keep them from reflecting heat back down to the earth and acting as a
thermal blanket, trapping more heat then it stops entering the atmosphere?

One side of whatever material was used would have to be coated in an
extremely reflective material, while the other side would have to be covered
in an extremely absorbent material. Now comes the big problem: how do you
manage to align these particles and then keep them stable in orbit? The
particles are going to naturally just tumble through space. That is a very
big obstacle to overcome.

James


Obviously you do not have a scientific mind, for a mind of science
would know that volcanoes with volcanic ash and meteors with meteor ash
in the upper atmosphere stops Sun rays from getting through and thus
cooling Earth.

Is it that you forgot about volcanic ash that would trashcan your
argument. Is it that you forgot about meteoric ash that would trashcan
your argument.

Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth
compared to the number of incoming Sun rays.

As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin
is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first
such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my
mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to
perhaps align the particles.

As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means
the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air
Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most
of the continental land masses.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

James Toupin wrote:
There is of course a technical problem with your "solution" that you are
overlooking: if these aluminium sequins are set adrift in orbit, what is
to
keep them from reflecting heat back down to the earth and acting as a
thermal blanket, trapping more heat then it stops entering the
atmosphere?

One side of whatever material was used would have to be coated in an
extremely reflective material, while the other side would have to be
covered
in an extremely absorbent material. Now comes the big problem: how do you
manage to align these particles and then keep them stable in orbit? The
particles are going to naturally just tumble through space. That is a
very
big obstacle to overcome.

James


Obviously you do not have a scientific mind, for a mind of science
would know that volcanoes with volcanic ash and meteors with meteor ash
in the upper atmosphere stops Sun rays from getting through and thus
cooling Earth.

Is it that you forgot about volcanic ash that would trashcan your
argument. Is it that you forgot about meteoric ash that would trashcan
your argument.

While I am not a professional scientist, I do have a "scientific mind", as
you put it. I have not forgotten volcanic ash or meteoric ash and dust as an
agent in cooling the atmosphere. However, volcanic ash or dust ejected by
the impact of a meteorite is not at all similar to "aluminums sequins". Both
volcanic ash and impact debris does not so much reflect solar radiation away
from the earth as simply blocking the radiation from striking the surface,
particularly in the visible and infrared wavelengths. And, oddly enough,
while it cools the earth by blocking sunlight from reaching the earth's
surface, it also acts as a thermal blanket trapping whatever heat is
generated by the planet and it's life processes thus keeping the temperature
from droping as dramatically as it would otherwise.

Actually, there is not even a need to invoke the examples of volcanic and
meteoric activity, as this is a fairly well known principle to
meteorologists and a mater of common sense that , I imagine, even grade
school children have perceived. An overcast day is cooler than a clear one,
while a clear night is cooler than an overcast one. This is because, during
the night the earth radiates heat energy, in the form of infrared radiation,
back into space reducing the temperature. The cloud cover stops the heat
from being radiated away and traps the heat in the atmosphere.


Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth
compared to the number of incoming Sun rays.

The reflection of the "Sun rays" - very scientific - is not the issue. The
issue is how much solar radiation, particularly in the infrared wavelength
is absorbed by earth's ocean and how much heat, generated by that radiation
striking the earth, is allowed to escape back into space. It is a precarious
balancing act and one that has already been affected by the release of
carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere through industrial processes. This
carbon-dioxide produces the very "thermal blanket" effect that I have
already cited above, which traps the heat in earth's atmosphere that would
normally be radiated out into space.


As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin
is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first
such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my
mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to
perhaps align the particles.

Perhaps the lowest tech solution would be to simply release dust into the
upper atmosphere, or low earth orbit, rather than using reflective aluminum
sequins at all. This would not even require the refining process needed to
produce aluminum, simply dig up a mound of dirt somewhere. Of course there
is still the nasty business of unintended consequences: how would the rest
of the climate be effected by the change you purpose? The Gulf Stream and
the Global Conveyer are integral to balancing the heat exchange between the
middle and lower latitudes.


As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means
the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air
Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most
of the continental land masses.

Order is not always happiness. If you need proof of that simply ask anyone
who suffered at the hands of Nazism or Communism, both big believers in
order.

James


Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

In article ,
"Tim K." wrote:

wrote in message news:m8pSe.32

A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly
natural and recuring process.

Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong.

I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.

/BAH


/BAH

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

In article ,
"Tim K." wrote:

wrote in message
om...
In article ,
"Tim K." wrote:

wrote in message news:m8pSe.32

A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly
natural and recuring process.

Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong.

I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.

Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me.

Sigh! Catastrophe from the American Heritage Pocket Dictionary, 1980.

A great and sudden calamity. This was not sudden. It was not
unpredicted. There was time to stock up even if one hadn't normally
stocked up for an interruption of power and delivery of goods
and services.

Which part of the word "sudden" do you not understand?

Do you have a larder? How long will you survive before you
need to go get new stuff?

/BAH

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
 

In article , Noah Little wrote:
Tim K. wrote:
wrote in message
m...
I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.


Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me.

Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is
not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe.

The hurricane hitting New England in 1937 (I think that was
the year) was a catastrophe because nobody knew it was coming
until it hit. You are forgetting the word sudden in the definition.

/BAH

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"Tim K." wrote:

wrote in message news:m8pSe.32

A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly
natural and recuring process.

Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong.

I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.

Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me.

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
 

Tim K. wrote:
wrote in message
m...
I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.


Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me.

Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is
not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe.
--
Noah

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

"Noah Little" wrote in message
...
Tim K. wrote:
wrote in message
m...
I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive
dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close
to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is
nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto
your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the
days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and
removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can
get out and go to work.


Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me.

Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is
not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe.

Well, we are discussing a hurricane that struck a major city, aren't we?

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:50:03 GMT, Noah Little wrote:

Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is
not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe.

And knowing a hurricane will hit a populated area and there is a
mandatory evacuation order and you choose to stay where you are and try
to sit it out? I think that is plain stupid.

--
|\ |
| \|ico

There's no place like 127.0.0.1

Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
 

James Toupin wrote:
(snipped)

While I am not a professional scientist, I do have a "scientific mind", as
you put it. I have not forgotten volcanic ash or meteoric ash and dust as an
agent in cooling the atmosphere. However, volcanic ash or dust ejected by
the impact of a meteorite is not at all similar to "aluminums sequins". Both
volcanic ash and impact debris does not so much reflect solar radiation away
from the earth as simply blocking the radiation from striking the surface,
particularly in the visible and infrared wavelengths. And, oddly enough,
while it cools the earth by blocking sunlight from reaching the earth's
surface, it also acts as a thermal blanket trapping whatever heat is
generated by the planet and it's life processes thus keeping the temperature
from droping as dramatically as it would otherwise.

Sorry to say, but you lack a scientific mind when you do not realize
that an analogy of factual data disprove your argument. You admit that
volcanic dust cools Earth. You admit that meteoric ash cools Earth. But
then your unscientific mind refuses to believe that Aluminum Aluminium
Sequin would magnify by powers of 10 the cooling of Volcanic/Meteoric
ash would cool. You admit volcanic ash cools Earth, so why do you
refuse to accept that a Aluminium Sequin particle would cool Earth by
perhaps 10^9 greater than a volcanic ash particle. Unless you are
arguing just to be arguing.



Actually, there is not even a need to invoke the examples of volcanic and
meteoric activity, as this is a fairly well known principle to
meteorologists and a mater of common sense that , I imagine, even grade
school children have perceived. An overcast day is cooler than a clear one,
while a clear night is cooler than an overcast one. This is because, during
the night the earth radiates heat energy, in the form of infrared radiation,
back into space reducing the temperature. The cloud cover stops the heat
from being radiated away and traps the heat in the atmosphere.


In the region of the Equator where the Gulf Sea lies there are a
density number of incoming photons from the Sun and likewise for this
density number of a given cross section of space there is a number of
photons outgoing from the Earth which is very very small compared to
incoming Sun photons. Aluminium Sequin will reflect a very small, very
tiny number of outgoing photons from the Earth surface back to the
Earth surface. But the number of reflected incoming Sun photons is so
huge that to speak of Aluminium Sequin as a blanket to warm Earth is so
ridiculous and that is why I called you lacking of a science mind.



Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth
compared to the number of incoming Sun rays.

The reflection of the "Sun rays" - very scientific - is not the issue. The
issue is how much solar radiation, particularly in the infrared wavelength
is absorbed by earth's ocean and how much heat, generated by that radiation
striking the earth, is allowed to escape back into space. It is a precarious
balancing act and one that has already been affected by the release of
carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere through industrial processes. This
carbon-dioxide produces the very "thermal blanket" effect that I have
already cited above, which traps the heat in earth's atmosphere that would
normally be radiated out into space.


What makes you think that Aluminum/Aluminium Sequin does not reflect or
absorb infrared wavelength and thus preventing those photons from
heating up the oceans. What makes you think that since volcanic ash and
meteoric ash can absorb the infrared that the Aluminium does or does
not absorb the infrared. And what makes you think that Aluminum does or
does not reflect infrared wavelengths. So what is your scientific
source for your denial of aluminum as absorbing or reflecting?


As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin
is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first
such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my
mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to
perhaps align the particles.

Perhaps the lowest tech solution would be to simply release dust into the
upper atmosphere, or low earth orbit, rather than using reflective aluminum
sequins at all. This would not even require the refining process needed to
produce aluminum, simply dig up a mound of dirt somewhere. Of course there
is still the nasty business of unintended consequences: how would the rest
of the climate be effected by the change you purpose? The Gulf Stream and
the Global Conveyer are integral to balancing the heat exchange between the
middle and lower latitudes.


No need for dust when Aluminum by a factor of 10^9 does a better job of
cooling Earth.

There maybe a plant material that may do as well of a job as aluminium
sequin. The chaff of agricultural harvesting such as corn stalk chaff
or cotton chaff may provide a better material. Perhaps some leaves such
as the raking of Fall leaves chaff would be about 1/2 the weight per
volume of aluminium sequin.

Improvements to Earth Air Conditioner will go on as long as humanity
exists, but what I am interested is getting the first one built, made
of aluminum sequin.


As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means
the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air
Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most
of the continental land masses.

Order is not always happiness. If you need proof of that simply ask anyone
who suffered at the hands of Nazism or Communism, both big believers in
order.

James

I am afraid it is. And a sign of a nonscientific mind such as James is
to constantly argue against whatever the other person says, and the
inability for that mind to ever be "open minded". As for Nazism and
Communism and tyrants and relition-run-states are systems of dogma,
just as religion is dogma. At least in the Democratic process as a
system there is room in the process to remove falsity and corruption.
In dogmatic political systems such as Nazism, Communism,
Religion-states, and dictator states there is little to no room to
remove corruption or falsehoods and whenever you have corruption and
falsehoods you have disorder. Democracy begs and pleads for order to
run the country. Democracy hates an environment of corruption, an
environment of disorder, an environment where the rule-of-law is not
attended to.

The concept of happiness and being happy are one and same as the
concept of order, whether the order is in controlling hurricanes so
they do not destroy your life or whether it is the happiness that your
government enforces rule of law.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies