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Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In my posts when I said that Florida is uninhabitable and the Gulf
Coast is uninhabitable means that those states, every year has a hurricane evacuation commencing. A state is uninhabitable if you have to evacuate every year. One thing that can be done, as the speaker of the House of Representatives, Mr. Hastert remarked that it is rather silly to rebuild New Orleans when it is 7 to 15 feet below sea level. A sensible, reasoning person would build a Newest Orleans nearby where it is above sea level. Rebuild it on higher ground. Because unless the main problem-- hurricanes and increasing hurricanes in global warming are addressed then the building of New Orleans is insane since the next big hurricane will repeat the exercise all over again. And unless we do conquer hurricanes by building a Earth Air Conditioner of Aluminum Sequin placed into orbit to reflect Sun rays, then every city on the Gulf Coast from Galveston to New Orleans to Tampa, St. Petersburg, Miami and even Jacksonville to Savannah to Charleston will be destroyed in an upcoming hurricane and every city between those big cities. So it is not a question of whether we build Earth-Air-Conditioner but when. For we cannot afford to be battered by hurricanes every summer and have entire regions of the country uninhabitable for half of the year. Now there was a nice factual data on Katrina as it approached New Orleans last week. It was said that Katrina was category 5 with winds (if memory serves me) of up to 165 mph but as it neared New Orleans a gust of Midwest dry air diverted Katrina and lowered it to a category 4 with winds of 140 mph. Sparing New Orleans from a direct encounter with Katrina. Now I have not worked out the math, but if a dry gust of wind from the Midwest can downgrade a hurricane from 5 to 4 and divert its path some 100 miles. I would think this data could come in handy when computing the affects of aluminum sequin in orbit above the Gulf Sea waters. If a dry gust of wind can affect a hurricane that much, then think of what a cargo hauled aluminum sequin in orbit can do. It maybe possible, just possible that a cargo hauled material in orbit, not necessarily aluminum sequin, but some other material such as cotton fibers or the fibers of some plant or sawdust, when placed in orbit that intersects the path of a hurricane such as Katrina, could dissolve the entire hurricane. Analogy: Hurricanes are like bathtub drain with its rotation motion. This is hard to stop once the rotation motion is in place but it can be weakened by the interference of objects in the path. The gust of dry Midwest air was such an object. The Aluminum Sequin placed in orbit is designed to never create a hurricane by reflecting Sun rays into outer space and thus depriving the ocean water from heating up and creating a hurricane. But perhaps another material when placed in orbit where a hurricane is moving can so weaken the storm. Something like sawdust. So I wonder if we can fly above a hurricane in a conventional airplane and not need a space rocket or space shuttle. But we definitely need to get ready for the 2006 season and schedule a space flight with cargo full of aluminum sequin so that we prevent the formation of hurricanes for 2006. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
I love ewes.
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Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
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Archie, I misread you the first time. I thought you meant "dump aluminum reflectors in the atmosphere." You actually mean "earth orbit." Then the only objection I can think of is that these objects may impact space probes, space craft, and become hazards to future astronavigation. Your remarks about Katrina are interesting. A hurricane is a heat distributor that efficiently moves heat out of the tropics and into cooler latitudes as a way of "balancing" total atmospheric temperatures. At the time of Katrina's vector, the Gulf of Mexico had a temperature that was a few degrees warmer than this time last year. I am guessing this is the reason Katrina jumped to category 5 in the Gulf. That has not happened since Camille in 1969. David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
As we are seeing the effects of man-made global warming having a larger and
larger impact around the globe, I believe that it only highlights how little we know about atmospheric conditions, let alone manipulation. With no idea of the impact that preventing these huge storms would have on the rest of the world's climate, I would think that any human interference is likely to make the problem even worse. Perhaps you will stop the tropical storms by cooling the ocean temperature where they form, but the what happens to the Gulf Stream and the global conveyer that distributes this heat around the globe and keeps the high latitudes warmer than they would normally be. All the variables and implications have to be taken into account before any course of action is taken. James wrote in message ups.com... In my posts when I said that Florida is uninhabitable and the Gulf Coast is uninhabitable means that those states, every year has a hurricane evacuation commencing. A state is uninhabitable if you have to evacuate every year. One thing that can be done, as the speaker of the House of Representatives, Mr. Hastert remarked that it is rather silly to rebuild New Orleans when it is 7 to 15 feet below sea level. A sensible, reasoning person would build a Newest Orleans nearby where it is above sea level. Rebuild it on higher ground. Because unless the main problem-- hurricanes and increasing hurricanes in global warming are addressed then the building of New Orleans is insane since the next big hurricane will repeat the exercise all over again. And unless we do conquer hurricanes by building a Earth Air Conditioner of Aluminum Sequin placed into orbit to reflect Sun rays, then every city on the Gulf Coast from Galveston to New Orleans to Tampa, St. Petersburg, Miami and even Jacksonville to Savannah to Charleston will be destroyed in an upcoming hurricane and every city between those big cities. So it is not a question of whether we build Earth-Air-Conditioner but when. For we cannot afford to be battered by hurricanes every summer and have entire regions of the country uninhabitable for half of the year. Now there was a nice factual data on Katrina as it approached New Orleans last week. It was said that Katrina was category 5 with winds (if memory serves me) of up to 165 mph but as it neared New Orleans a gust of Midwest dry air diverted Katrina and lowered it to a category 4 with winds of 140 mph. Sparing New Orleans from a direct encounter with Katrina. Now I have not worked out the math, but if a dry gust of wind from the Midwest can downgrade a hurricane from 5 to 4 and divert its path some 100 miles. I would think this data could come in handy when computing the affects of aluminum sequin in orbit above the Gulf Sea waters. If a dry gust of wind can affect a hurricane that much, then think of what a cargo hauled aluminum sequin in orbit can do. It maybe possible, just possible that a cargo hauled material in orbit, not necessarily aluminum sequin, but some other material such as cotton fibers or the fibers of some plant or sawdust, when placed in orbit that intersects the path of a hurricane such as Katrina, could dissolve the entire hurricane. Analogy: Hurricanes are like bathtub drain with its rotation motion. This is hard to stop once the rotation motion is in place but it can be weakened by the interference of objects in the path. The gust of dry Midwest air was such an object. The Aluminum Sequin placed in orbit is designed to never create a hurricane by reflecting Sun rays into outer space and thus depriving the ocean water from heating up and creating a hurricane. But perhaps another material when placed in orbit where a hurricane is moving can so weaken the storm. Something like sawdust. So I wonder if we can fly above a hurricane in a conventional airplane and not need a space rocket or space shuttle. But we definitely need to get ready for the 2006 season and schedule a space flight with cargo full of aluminum sequin so that we prevent the formation of hurricanes for 2006. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
don't forget, nature itself has the best recipee against global
meteorological catastrophes: covering the soil with plants - so instead of extending deserts, we should start with consequent re-naturalization - also wheat fields up to the horizon are "deserts" in the sense of weather |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
James Toupin wrote: As we are seeing the effects of man-made global warming having a larger and larger impact around the globe, I believe that it only highlights how little we know about atmospheric conditions, let alone manipulation. With no idea of the impact that preventing these huge storms would have on the rest of the world's climate, I would think that any human interference is likely to make the problem even worse. Perhaps you will stop the tropical storms by cooling the ocean temperature where they form, but the what happens to the Gulf Stream and the global conveyer that distributes this heat around the globe and keeps the high latitudes warmer than they would normally be. All the variables and implications have to be taken into account before any course of action is taken. James Successful life, successful living is a constant and active engagement with problems. Happiness in life and happy living is putting Order and Progress-towards-Order. In fact, happiness is one and the same as order. Whether the order is physical order or mental/mind order. We have an old analogy to work with in solving hurricanes and it is the flooding by water which was solved many centuries back by dam building. Dams put order into rivers. We have never solved the problem of hurricanes because we never had the technology. But we now have that technology- Space Station and space travel. Of course with any technology and the solving of a major problem such as river flooding or hurricanes there is some good and some bad but the good far outweighs the bad. The electricity from dam building plus the prevention of flooding far outweigh the bad of dams. The prevention of hurricanes far outweighs the bad of a little bit of flora adjustment to a wee-bit less light. But the biggest benefit to Earth Air Conditioner maybe as yet the unknown of Solar Flares. No-one has really entertained the idea that Solar Flaring from a collision with a large astro body such as Mercury or a large asteroid into the Sun may cause a solar flare that perhaps lead to the Permian and even the Cretaceous extinction. We think of the dinosaur extinction was due to a meteor but perhaps the extinction was due more to a solar flaring for which the main colliding bodies impacted the Sun and only debris particles struck Earth. If a large astro body collides with the Sun, the Solar Flaring could be so large that massive extinctions on Earth, if unprepared would take place. Problems as large as Global WArming and Hurricanes and Solar Flares have to be met head on and even before they become a major problem. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
The passive mode of dealing with major problems is not acceptable and
will not solve major problems. Your recipe is to go back in time to a situation in which we had no global warming and no killer hurricanes. But we have always had hurricanes. There is an analogy problem to hurricanes and it is dam building to control rivers. As with any technology that controls a problem, there is some good and some bad and the good outweighs the bad. So we need much, much more than a passive mode to solving hurricanes, more than just plant cover. We need a direct approach and active mode. We need, like dam building to fly into hurricanes whether above them in space orbit or conventional aircraft and to eliminate or mitigate hurricanes. Human overpopulation is a greater factor in the recent hurricane disasters than is plant cover. It is human overpopulation that puts more greenhouse gases into the air that causes Global Warming that causes increased hurricane activity. If Earth had the population of 2 billion people instead of 7-8 billion then there would be no Global Warming and no increased hurricane activity. Priority one is to install EArth Air Conditioner of Aluminum sequin in orbit so that year 2006 has no hurricanes. Priority two is to start a world wide legislation to get our human population at a comfortable number so that everyone alive has a decent life and that we preserve wildlife and flora and fauna and the environment. Your idea of re-naturalization is far down on the list of priorities and even whether it is a priority or not. I question whether it is a priority for it is illogical with respect to the Uncertainty principle in Quantum Physics that the mere fact of humanity causes irreversible changes to the planet, likewise and observation affects what is observed. Going forward into the future, it is best to actively fix problems and solve problems rather than pine about what it was like in the past and try to impose what the environment of the past was into the present. There is a program in Lousiana to try to reestablish the swamps to lessen the hurricanes. I see this as misguided and a desire to return to the past to solve present day problems. These are costly and wasteful. The problem of hurricanes would not be solved with plant cover. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
There is of course a technical problem with your "solution" that you are
overlooking: if these aluminium sequins are set adrift in orbit, what is to keep them from reflecting heat back down to the earth and acting as a thermal blanket, trapping more heat then it stops entering the atmosphere? One side of whatever material was used would have to be coated in an extremely reflective material, while the other side would have to be covered in an extremely absorbent material. Now comes the big problem: how do you manage to align these particles and then keep them stable in orbit? The particles are going to naturally just tumble through space. That is a very big obstacle to overcome. James wrote in message oups.com... James Toupin wrote: As we are seeing the effects of man-made global warming having a larger and larger impact around the globe, I believe that it only highlights how little we know about atmospheric conditions, let alone manipulation. With no idea of the impact that preventing these huge storms would have on the rest of the world's climate, I would think that any human interference is likely to make the problem even worse. Perhaps you will stop the tropical storms by cooling the ocean temperature where they form, but the what happens to the Gulf Stream and the global conveyer that distributes this heat around the globe and keeps the high latitudes warmer than they would normally be. All the variables and implications have to be taken into account before any course of action is taken. James Successful life, successful living is a constant and active engagement with problems. Happiness in life and happy living is putting Order and Progress-towards-Order. In fact, happiness is one and the same as order. Whether the order is physical order or mental/mind order. We have an old analogy to work with in solving hurricanes and it is the flooding by water which was solved many centuries back by dam building. Dams put order into rivers. We have never solved the problem of hurricanes because we never had the technology. But we now have that technology- Space Station and space travel. Of course with any technology and the solving of a major problem such as river flooding or hurricanes there is some good and some bad but the good far outweighs the bad. The electricity from dam building plus the prevention of flooding far outweigh the bad of dams. The prevention of hurricanes far outweighs the bad of a little bit of flora adjustment to a wee-bit less light. But the biggest benefit to Earth Air Conditioner maybe as yet the unknown of Solar Flares. No-one has really entertained the idea that Solar Flaring from a collision with a large astro body such as Mercury or a large asteroid into the Sun may cause a solar flare that perhaps lead to the Permian and even the Cretaceous extinction. We think of the dinosaur extinction was due to a meteor but perhaps the extinction was due more to a solar flaring for which the main colliding bodies impacted the Sun and only debris particles struck Earth. If a large astro body collides with the Sun, the Solar Flaring could be so large that massive extinctions on Earth, if unprepared would take place. Problems as large as Global WArming and Hurricanes and Solar Flares have to be met head on and even before they become a major problem. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In article , kauhl-meersburg writes:
don't forget, nature itself has the best recipee against global meteorological catastrophes Catastrophies? A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly natural and recuring process. : covering the soil with plants - so instead of extending deserts, we should start with consequent re-naturalization - also wheat fields up to the horizon are "deserts" in the sense of weather So are oceans. Do you plan to cover them? Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, | chances are he is doing just the same" |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message news:m8pSe.32 A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly natural and recuring process. Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong. |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
James Toupin wrote: There is of course a technical problem with your "solution" that you are overlooking: if these aluminium sequins are set adrift in orbit, what is to keep them from reflecting heat back down to the earth and acting as a thermal blanket, trapping more heat then it stops entering the atmosphere? One side of whatever material was used would have to be coated in an extremely reflective material, while the other side would have to be covered in an extremely absorbent material. Now comes the big problem: how do you manage to align these particles and then keep them stable in orbit? The particles are going to naturally just tumble through space. That is a very big obstacle to overcome. James Obviously you do not have a scientific mind, for a mind of science would know that volcanoes with volcanic ash and meteors with meteor ash in the upper atmosphere stops Sun rays from getting through and thus cooling Earth. Is it that you forgot about volcanic ash that would trashcan your argument. Is it that you forgot about meteoric ash that would trashcan your argument. Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth compared to the number of incoming Sun rays. As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to perhaps align the particles. As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most of the continental land masses. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message oups.com... James Toupin wrote: There is of course a technical problem with your "solution" that you are overlooking: if these aluminium sequins are set adrift in orbit, what is to keep them from reflecting heat back down to the earth and acting as a thermal blanket, trapping more heat then it stops entering the atmosphere? One side of whatever material was used would have to be coated in an extremely reflective material, while the other side would have to be covered in an extremely absorbent material. Now comes the big problem: how do you manage to align these particles and then keep them stable in orbit? The particles are going to naturally just tumble through space. That is a very big obstacle to overcome. James Obviously you do not have a scientific mind, for a mind of science would know that volcanoes with volcanic ash and meteors with meteor ash in the upper atmosphere stops Sun rays from getting through and thus cooling Earth. Is it that you forgot about volcanic ash that would trashcan your argument. Is it that you forgot about meteoric ash that would trashcan your argument. While I am not a professional scientist, I do have a "scientific mind", as you put it. I have not forgotten volcanic ash or meteoric ash and dust as an agent in cooling the atmosphere. However, volcanic ash or dust ejected by the impact of a meteorite is not at all similar to "aluminums sequins". Both volcanic ash and impact debris does not so much reflect solar radiation away from the earth as simply blocking the radiation from striking the surface, particularly in the visible and infrared wavelengths. And, oddly enough, while it cools the earth by blocking sunlight from reaching the earth's surface, it also acts as a thermal blanket trapping whatever heat is generated by the planet and it's life processes thus keeping the temperature from droping as dramatically as it would otherwise. Actually, there is not even a need to invoke the examples of volcanic and meteoric activity, as this is a fairly well known principle to meteorologists and a mater of common sense that , I imagine, even grade school children have perceived. An overcast day is cooler than a clear one, while a clear night is cooler than an overcast one. This is because, during the night the earth radiates heat energy, in the form of infrared radiation, back into space reducing the temperature. The cloud cover stops the heat from being radiated away and traps the heat in the atmosphere. Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth compared to the number of incoming Sun rays. The reflection of the "Sun rays" - very scientific - is not the issue. The issue is how much solar radiation, particularly in the infrared wavelength is absorbed by earth's ocean and how much heat, generated by that radiation striking the earth, is allowed to escape back into space. It is a precarious balancing act and one that has already been affected by the release of carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere through industrial processes. This carbon-dioxide produces the very "thermal blanket" effect that I have already cited above, which traps the heat in earth's atmosphere that would normally be radiated out into space. As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to perhaps align the particles. Perhaps the lowest tech solution would be to simply release dust into the upper atmosphere, or low earth orbit, rather than using reflective aluminum sequins at all. This would not even require the refining process needed to produce aluminum, simply dig up a mound of dirt somewhere. Of course there is still the nasty business of unintended consequences: how would the rest of the climate be effected by the change you purpose? The Gulf Stream and the Global Conveyer are integral to balancing the heat exchange between the middle and lower latitudes. As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most of the continental land masses. Order is not always happiness. If you need proof of that simply ask anyone who suffered at the hands of Nazism or Communism, both big believers in order. James Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In article ,
"Tim K." wrote: wrote in message news:m8pSe.32 A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly natural and recuring process. Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong. I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. /BAH /BAH |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In article ,
"Tim K." wrote: wrote in message om... In article , "Tim K." wrote: wrote in message news:m8pSe.32 A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly natural and recuring process. Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong. I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. Sigh! Catastrophe from the American Heritage Pocket Dictionary, 1980. A great and sudden calamity. This was not sudden. It was not unpredicted. There was time to stock up even if one hadn't normally stocked up for an interruption of power and delivery of goods and services. Which part of the word "sudden" do you not understand? Do you have a larder? How long will you survive before you need to go get new stuff? /BAH |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
In article , Noah Little wrote:
Tim K. wrote: wrote in message m... I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe. The hurricane hitting New England in 1937 (I think that was the year) was a catastrophe because nobody knew it was coming until it hit. You are forgetting the word sudden in the definition. /BAH |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message m... In article , "Tim K." wrote: wrote in message news:m8pSe.32 A hurricane in not a catastrophy, it is a perfectly natural and recuring process. Way to split hairs over semantics - and still be wrong. I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
Tim K. wrote:
wrote in message m... I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe. -- Noah |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
"Noah Little" wrote in message ... Tim K. wrote: wrote in message m... I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe. Well, we are discussing a hurricane that struck a major city, aren't we? |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:50:03 GMT, Noah Little wrote:
Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe. And knowing a hurricane will hit a populated area and there is a mandatory evacuation order and you choose to stay where you are and try to sit it out? I think that is plain stupid. -- |\ | | \|ico There's no place like 127.0.0.1 |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
James Toupin wrote: (snipped) While I am not a professional scientist, I do have a "scientific mind", as you put it. I have not forgotten volcanic ash or meteoric ash and dust as an agent in cooling the atmosphere. However, volcanic ash or dust ejected by the impact of a meteorite is not at all similar to "aluminums sequins". Both volcanic ash and impact debris does not so much reflect solar radiation away from the earth as simply blocking the radiation from striking the surface, particularly in the visible and infrared wavelengths. And, oddly enough, while it cools the earth by blocking sunlight from reaching the earth's surface, it also acts as a thermal blanket trapping whatever heat is generated by the planet and it's life processes thus keeping the temperature from droping as dramatically as it would otherwise. Sorry to say, but you lack a scientific mind when you do not realize that an analogy of factual data disprove your argument. You admit that volcanic dust cools Earth. You admit that meteoric ash cools Earth. But then your unscientific mind refuses to believe that Aluminum Aluminium Sequin would magnify by powers of 10 the cooling of Volcanic/Meteoric ash would cool. You admit volcanic ash cools Earth, so why do you refuse to accept that a Aluminium Sequin particle would cool Earth by perhaps 10^9 greater than a volcanic ash particle. Unless you are arguing just to be arguing. Actually, there is not even a need to invoke the examples of volcanic and meteoric activity, as this is a fairly well known principle to meteorologists and a mater of common sense that , I imagine, even grade school children have perceived. An overcast day is cooler than a clear one, while a clear night is cooler than an overcast one. This is because, during the night the earth radiates heat energy, in the form of infrared radiation, back into space reducing the temperature. The cloud cover stops the heat from being radiated away and traps the heat in the atmosphere. In the region of the Equator where the Gulf Sea lies there are a density number of incoming photons from the Sun and likewise for this density number of a given cross section of space there is a number of photons outgoing from the Earth which is very very small compared to incoming Sun photons. Aluminium Sequin will reflect a very small, very tiny number of outgoing photons from the Earth surface back to the Earth surface. But the number of reflected incoming Sun photons is so huge that to speak of Aluminium Sequin as a blanket to warm Earth is so ridiculous and that is why I called you lacking of a science mind. Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth compared to the number of incoming Sun rays. The reflection of the "Sun rays" - very scientific - is not the issue. The issue is how much solar radiation, particularly in the infrared wavelength is absorbed by earth's ocean and how much heat, generated by that radiation striking the earth, is allowed to escape back into space. It is a precarious balancing act and one that has already been affected by the release of carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere through industrial processes. This carbon-dioxide produces the very "thermal blanket" effect that I have already cited above, which traps the heat in earth's atmosphere that would normally be radiated out into space. What makes you think that Aluminum/Aluminium Sequin does not reflect or absorb infrared wavelength and thus preventing those photons from heating up the oceans. What makes you think that since volcanic ash and meteoric ash can absorb the infrared that the Aluminium does or does not absorb the infrared. And what makes you think that Aluminum does or does not reflect infrared wavelengths. So what is your scientific source for your denial of aluminum as absorbing or reflecting? As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to perhaps align the particles. Perhaps the lowest tech solution would be to simply release dust into the upper atmosphere, or low earth orbit, rather than using reflective aluminum sequins at all. This would not even require the refining process needed to produce aluminum, simply dig up a mound of dirt somewhere. Of course there is still the nasty business of unintended consequences: how would the rest of the climate be effected by the change you purpose? The Gulf Stream and the Global Conveyer are integral to balancing the heat exchange between the middle and lower latitudes. No need for dust when Aluminum by a factor of 10^9 does a better job of cooling Earth. There maybe a plant material that may do as well of a job as aluminium sequin. The chaff of agricultural harvesting such as corn stalk chaff or cotton chaff may provide a better material. Perhaps some leaves such as the raking of Fall leaves chaff would be about 1/2 the weight per volume of aluminium sequin. Improvements to Earth Air Conditioner will go on as long as humanity exists, but what I am interested is getting the first one built, made of aluminum sequin. As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most of the continental land masses. Order is not always happiness. If you need proof of that simply ask anyone who suffered at the hands of Nazism or Communism, both big believers in order. James I am afraid it is. And a sign of a nonscientific mind such as James is to constantly argue against whatever the other person says, and the inability for that mind to ever be "open minded". As for Nazism and Communism and tyrants and relition-run-states are systems of dogma, just as religion is dogma. At least in the Democratic process as a system there is room in the process to remove falsity and corruption. In dogmatic political systems such as Nazism, Communism, Religion-states, and dictator states there is little to no room to remove corruption or falsehoods and whenever you have corruption and falsehoods you have disorder. Democracy begs and pleads for order to run the country. Democracy hates an environment of corruption, an environment of disorder, an environment where the rule-of-law is not attended to. The concept of happiness and being happy are one and same as the concept of order, whether the order is in controlling hurricanes so they do not destroy your life or whether it is the happiness that your government enforces rule of law. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In article , Noah Little writes:
Tim K. wrote: wrote in message m... I think you are suffering from a thingie called cognitive dissonance. Hurricanes are a fact of living anywhere close to a coast. It is like living in a snow belt. There is nothing you can do about preventing 2-foot dumps onto your driveway. There is a lot you can do to plan for the days you will be house-bound w.r.t. food, water, and removing enough snow _after_ the storm stops so you can get out and go to work. Look up the definition of c a t a s t r o p h e and get back to me. Trust me on this -- I do not have a dog in this fight -- a hurricane is not a catastrophe. A hurricane hitting a populated area is a catastrophe. -- Not even this. A hurricane hitting a populated area where the population experienced hurricanes before but still failed to prepare adequately, that's a catastrophe. Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, | chances are he is doing just the same" |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message oups.com... James Toupin wrote: (snipped) While I am not a professional scientist, I do have a "scientific mind", as you put it. I have not forgotten volcanic ash or meteoric ash and dust as an agent in cooling the atmosphere. However, volcanic ash or dust ejected by the impact of a meteorite is not at all similar to "aluminums sequins". Both volcanic ash and impact debris does not so much reflect solar radiation away from the earth as simply blocking the radiation from striking the surface, particularly in the visible and infrared wavelengths. And, oddly enough, while it cools the earth by blocking sunlight from reaching the earth's surface, it also acts as a thermal blanket trapping whatever heat is generated by the planet and it's life processes thus keeping the temperature from droping as dramatically as it would otherwise. Sorry to say, but you lack a scientific mind when you do not realize that an analogy of factual data disprove your argument. You admit that volcanic dust cools Earth. You admit that meteoric ash cools Earth. But then your unscientific mind refuses to believe that Aluminum Aluminium Sequin would magnify by powers of 10 the cooling of Volcanic/Meteoric ash would cool. You admit volcanic ash cools Earth, so why do you refuse to accept that a Aluminium Sequin particle would cool Earth by perhaps 10^9 greater than a volcanic ash particle. Unless you are arguing just to be arguing. I am sure that aluminium sequins would indeed have an effect on the atmosphere at the temperature of the Earth's surface. What I don't accept is your argument that it would only reflect incoming solar radiation away from Earth and not also trap heat in like a thermal blanket. It's not that I don't accept it, rather that humanity messing with the environment has not ever turned out well before. We need to keep that in mind before we do anything to interfere with the natural processes. Actually, there is not even a need to invoke the examples of volcanic and meteoric activity, as this is a fairly well known principle to meteorologists and a mater of common sense that , I imagine, even grade school children have perceived. An overcast day is cooler than a clear one, while a clear night is cooler than an overcast one. This is because, during the night the earth radiates heat energy, in the form of infrared radiation, back into space reducing the temperature. The cloud cover stops the heat from being radiated away and traps the heat in the atmosphere. In the region of the Equator where the Gulf Sea lies there are a density number of incoming photons from the Sun and likewise for this density number of a given cross section of space there is a number of photons outgoing from the Earth which is very very small compared to incoming Sun photons. Aluminium Sequin will reflect a very small, very tiny number of outgoing photons from the Earth surface back to the Earth surface. But the number of reflected incoming Sun photons is so huge that to speak of Aluminium Sequin as a blanket to warm Earth is so ridiculous and that is why I called you lacking of a science mind. The amount of solar radiation reflected would be dependent upon: the amount of aluminium used, and the angle at which it is inclined relative to the incoming solar radiation and the surface of the Earth. If it were simply allowed to orbit randomly, the aluminium sequins, which I presume you would have polished to a high reflectivity in order to get the magnitude of order cooling that you suggest, would tumble in space and not consistently reflect radiation away from the Earth at all. By extension, if the aluminium sequins are simply allowed to tumble, why would the reflectivity not be equal when it was facing the surface of the Earth as when it was facing outward? Think about what is the proportion of reflected Sun rays by Earth compared to the number of incoming Sun rays. The reflection of the "Sun rays" - very scientific - is not the issue. The issue is how much solar radiation, particularly in the infrared wavelength is absorbed by earth's ocean and how much heat, generated by that radiation striking the earth, is allowed to escape back into space. It is a precarious balancing act and one that has already been affected by the release of carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere through industrial processes. This carbon-dioxide produces the very "thermal blanket" effect that I have already cited above, which traps the heat in earth's atmosphere that would normally be radiated out into space. What makes you think that Aluminum/Aluminium Sequin does not reflect or absorb infrared wavelength and thus preventing those photons from heating up the oceans. What makes you think that since volcanic ash and meteoric ash can absorb the infrared that the Aluminium does or does not absorb the infrared. And what makes you think that Aluminum does or does not reflect infrared wavelengths. So what is your scientific source for your denial of aluminum as absorbing or reflecting? I don't deny it. The basis for my arguing against it is because I agree that it would indeed reflect and absorb solar radiation. The problem is knowing exactly how that would work in practice. Aluminium sequins allowed to simply tumble would, in essence, scatter the incoming sunlight; reflecting a portion away from the Earth and reflecting a portion towards the Earth. Knowing precisely what these proportions would be is of utmost importance in predicting the effects upon the Earth and it's climate. Also, assuming that these aluminium sequins would be in a geosynchronous orbit to have the desired effect on a particular region, what portion of the heat that was produced during the day would be reflected back towards earth when the region passed into night time? What if cloud cover develops in the same area during the day and intensifies the cooling effect? Or at night and intensifies the thermal blanket effect? There are simply far to many variables for a system such as this to work effectively and as intended. As for aligning the sequin, I do not need to do that. Aluminum sequin is the lowest tech for a Earth Air Conditioner and will be the first such engineering. But after it is in orbit, there is no doubt in my mind that future engineers will make it higher tech with the ability to perhaps align the particles. Perhaps the lowest tech solution would be to simply release dust into the upper atmosphere, or low earth orbit, rather than using reflective aluminum sequins at all. This would not even require the refining process needed to produce aluminum, simply dig up a mound of dirt somewhere. Of course there is still the nasty business of unintended consequences: how would the rest of the climate be effected by the change you purpose? The Gulf Stream and the Global Conveyer are integral to balancing the heat exchange between the middle and lower latitudes. No need for dust when Aluminum by a factor of 10^9 does a better job of cooling Earth. And what effects of this extreme cooling of one part of the ocean produce globally? That is a bit of a worry, wouldn't you agree? There maybe a plant material that may do as well of a job as aluminium sequin. The chaff of agricultural harvesting such as corn stalk chaff or cotton chaff may provide a better material. Perhaps some leaves such as the raking of Fall leaves chaff would be about 1/2 the weight per volume of aluminium sequin. Improvements to Earth Air Conditioner will go on as long as humanity exists, but what I am interested is getting the first one built, made of aluminum sequin. As I said earlier Order is happiness and the more order we have means the more controlling of Hurricanes and also controlling Earth Air Conditioner. Some future day we could perhaps control weather for most of the continental land masses. Order is not always happiness. If you need proof of that simply ask anyone who suffered at the hands of Nazism or Communism, both big believers in order. I am afraid it is. And a sign of a nonscientific mind such as James is to constantly argue against whatever the other person says, and the inability for that mind to ever be "open minded". I am open minded. I am open to many ideas and possibilities. I am also open to the idea of unintended consequences. I feel that the unintended consequences of this plan outweigh any advantage that you may perceive. James As for Nazism and Communism and tyrants and relition-run-states are systems of dogma, just as religion is dogma. At least in the Democratic process as a system there is room in the process to remove falsity and corruption. In dogmatic political systems such as Nazism, Communism, Religion-states, and dictator states there is little to no room to remove corruption or falsehoods and whenever you have corruption and falsehoods you have disorder. Democracy begs and pleads for order to run the country. Democracy hates an environment of corruption, an environment of disorder, an environment where the rule-of-law is not attended to. The concept of happiness and being happy are one and same as the concept of order, whether the order is in controlling hurricanes so they do not destroy your life or whether it is the happiness that your government enforces rule of law. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
building Earth Air-Conditioner out of Aluminium Sequin placed in orbit and to deprive hurricane formation
James Toupin wrote: I am sure that aluminium sequins would indeed have an effect on the atmosphere at the temperature of the Earth's surface. What I don't accept is your argument that it would only reflect incoming solar radiation away from Earth and not also trap heat in like a thermal blanket. It's not that I don't accept it, rather that humanity messing with the environment has not ever turned out well before. We need to keep that in mind before we do anything to interfere with the natural processes. My argument never said all radiation is reflected into outer space, so please do not put words into my mouth. You need a lesson in physics and I need practice in lecturing about physics. Most of the Sun radiation, EM radiation that strikes Earth surface is in the visible wavelength, but I do not have a percentage of that and am guessing about 70% that strikes Earth surface is Visible Light which makes sense in that photosynthesis is based on visible range of light. The Infrared range of Sunlight seldom strikes the surface of Earth and is absorbed by the atmosphere of Earth. So the comment by James that ocean waters are heated up due to infrared radiation and the bulk of the cause of hurricanes is not true. Apparently the main contributor of the heating up of ocean waters is Visible Light. Also, Infrared region of EM spectrum reflects easily by mirrors and by aluminum sequin. The infrared telescopes in use are positioned on high level mountains that are dry mountains. It is given that aluminium reflects the Visible range of Sunlight. So by putting aluminium or aluminum sequin into orbit will easily reflect alot of Visible and Infrared radiation coming from the Sun. Now there is a small contribution of infrared radiation due to Earth itself of its radioactivity and the fact it is a body above zero kelvin temperature. All bodies above zero kelvin emit infrared radiation. And the sequin will reflect some of this outgoing infrared back to the surface. The amount of solar radiation reflected would be dependent upon: the amount of aluminium used, and the angle at which it is inclined relative to the incoming solar radiation and the surface of the Earth. If it were simply allowed to orbit randomly, the aluminium sequins, which I presume you would have polished to a high reflectivity in order to get the magnitude of order cooling that you suggest, would tumble in space and not consistently reflect radiation away from the Earth at all. By extension, if the aluminium sequins are simply allowed to tumble, why would the reflectivity not be equal when it was facing the surface of the Earth as when it was facing outward? I do not know why you are hung up on the fact of tumbling. The basic math of this reflectivity is that a huge percent of incoming Sun rays are reflected into space and a small amount of infrared that the Earth itself as a body emits is reflected back to Earth. So if 99% of the rays that are reflected are reflected into outer space, why be hung up on a mere 1% that is re-reflected back down to the Earth surface. And James is illogically hung up on rays that are reflected towards the surface of Earth, for which they would have struck Earth anyway if the aluminum was not there in the first place, so they do not count. What counts is that every reflected ray into outer space by the Aluminum will keep the Earth that much cooler. And there will be alot of these reflected rays and only a meagre rare few rays that become trapped by the aluminum. I am open minded. I am open to many ideas and possibilities. I am also open to the idea of unintended consequences. I feel that the unintended consequences of this plan outweigh any advantage that you may perceive. James I do not call that open minded. I call it "worry wart". There are those that do things to improve the world and there are worry warts that carp and banter negatives and depress those that try to improve the world. Worry warts should not have a forum to spread their depressing views. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
Tim,
Mati and Jumbah are correct. The good thing about tropical storms is (1) they don't always become hurricanes; (2) they are terrific rain makers. In Texas, water is life. In South Texas we were blessed with full reservoirs this summer because of last year's storms which dumped millions of tonnes into the state's drainage system. South Texas and Northern Mexico would be deserts without the steady delivery of rains by tropical storms. But Louisiana and the East Gulf do not need this extra water. David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message oups.com... Tim, Mati and Jumbah are correct. The good thing about tropical storms is (1) they don't always become hurricanes; (2) they are terrific rain makers. In Texas, water is life. In South Texas we were blessed with full reservoirs this summer because of last year's storms which dumped millions of tonnes into the state's drainage system. South Texas and Northern Mexico would be deserts without the steady delivery of rains by tropical storms. But Louisiana and the East Gulf do not need this extra water. I believe any place on Earth would be a desert if it doesn't rain there. |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
In article lN8Te.168784$E95.90875@fed1read01, "Richard Henry" writes:
wrote in message roups.com... Tim, Mati and Jumbah are correct. The good thing about tropical storms is (1) they don't always become hurricanes; (2) they are terrific rain makers. In Texas, water is life. In South Texas we were blessed with full reservoirs this summer because of last year's storms which dumped millions of tonnes into the state's drainage system. South Texas and Northern Mexico would be deserts without the steady delivery of rains by tropical storms. But Louisiana and the East Gulf do not need this extra water. I believe any place on Earth would be a desert if it doesn't rain there. Well, there are some exceptions. River valleys may be kept from being deserts by rains elsewhere. Anyway, other than those exceptions, not every place is getting the majority of its rains delivered in the form of tropical storms. Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, | chances are he is doing just the same" |
building Earth Air-Conditioner out of Aluminium Sequin placed in orbit and to deprive hurricane formation
wrote in message ups.com... James Toupin wrote: I am sure that aluminium sequins would indeed have an effect on the atmosphere at the temperature of the Earth's surface. What I don't accept is your argument that it would only reflect incoming solar radiation away from Earth and not also trap heat in like a thermal blanket. It's not that I don't accept it, rather that humanity messing with the environment has not ever turned out well before. We need to keep that in mind before we do anything to interfere with the natural processes. My argument never said all radiation is reflected into outer space, so please do not put words into my mouth. You need a lesson in physics and I need practice in lecturing about physics. Most of the Sun radiation, EM radiation that strikes Earth surface is in the visible wavelength, but I do not have a percentage of that and am guessing about 70% that strikes Earth surface is Visible Light which makes sense in that photosynthesis is based on visible range of light. The Infrared range of Sunlight seldom strikes the surface of Earth and is absorbed by the atmosphere of Earth. So the comment by James that ocean waters are heated up due to infrared radiation and the bulk of the cause of hurricanes is not true. Apparently the main contributor of the heating up of ocean waters is Visible Light. You certainly do need practice, but not in lecturing about physics but understanding it. Appearently you don't recall elementary school science class. Let us review, shall we? From HowStuffWorks.com: http://home.howstuffworks.com/thermos1.htm a.. Radiation - Another side effect of atomic motion is vibration, and vibration leads to the unexpected phenomenon of infrared radiation. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Infrared radiation is absorbed and emitted by the rotations and vibrations of chemically bonded atoms or groups of atoms and thus by many kinds of materials." Infrared radiation is a form of light. Our eyes are unable to see infrared, but our skin can feel it. About half of all of the sun's energy that reaches us comes as invisible infrared radiation, with the rest of it visible to us as light. Infrared, like visible light, is reflected by mirrors and absorbed better by black objects. When infrared is absorbed, it results in atomic motion, and therefore, in a rise in temperature. Some common examples of infrared are the heat you feel radiating from an electric heater or a red-hot piece of metal, the heat you feel radiating from the bricks in a fireplace even if the fire has gone out and the heat you feel radiating from a concrete wall after the sun has gone down. Also, Infrared region of EM spectrum reflects easily by mirrors and by aluminum sequin. The infrared telescopes in use are positioned on high level mountains that are dry mountains. It is given that aluminium reflects the Visible range of Sunlight. So by putting aluminium or aluminum sequin into orbit will easily reflect alot of Visible and Infrared radiation coming from the Sun. Now there is a small contribution of infrared radiation due to Earth itself of its radioactivity and the fact it is a body above zero kelvin temperature. All bodies above zero kelvin emit infrared radiation. And the sequin will reflect some of this outgoing infrared back to the surface. The amount of solar radiation reflected would be dependent upon: the amount of aluminium used, and the angle at which it is inclined relative to the incoming solar radiation and the surface of the Earth. If it were simply allowed to orbit randomly, the aluminium sequins, which I presume you would have polished to a high reflectivity in order to get the magnitude of order cooling that you suggest, would tumble in space and not consistently reflect radiation away from the Earth at all. By extension, if the aluminium sequins are simply allowed to tumble, why would the reflectivity not be equal when it was facing the surface of the Earth as when it was facing outward? I do not know why you are hung up on the fact of tumbling. The basic math of this reflectivity is that a huge percent of incoming Sun rays are reflected into space and a small amount of infrared that the Earth itself as a body emits is reflected back to Earth. So if 99% of the rays that are reflected are reflected into outer space, why be hung up on a mere 1% that is re-reflected back down to the Earth surface. And James is illogically hung up on rays that are reflected towards the surface of Earth, for which they would have struck Earth anyway if the aluminum was not there in the first place, so they do not count. What counts is that every reflected ray into outer space by the Aluminum will keep the Earth that much cooler. And there will be alot of these reflected rays and only a meagre rare few rays that become trapped by the aluminum. I am open minded. I am open to many ideas and possibilities. I am also open to the idea of unintended consequences. I feel that the unintended consequences of this plan outweigh any advantage that you may perceive. James I do not call that open minded. I call it "worry wart". There are those that do things to improve the world and there are worry warts that carp and banter negatives and depress those that try to improve the world. Worry warts should not have a forum to spread their depressing views. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote: wrote: And unless we do conquer hurricanes by building a Earth Air Conditioner of Aluminum Sequin placed into orbit to reflect Sun rays, Apologies if anyone else has mentioned it further down in the thread, but wouldn't Aluminum sequin be swept away in no time by solar winds? I am not sure of this myself, for I have nothing that I can point to in the debris literature to prove it will not blow away. The debris literature talks mostly about large pieces of rubble and not about tiny things like aluminum sequin. This is important also for whether the sequin spreads out or bunches up together. Perhaps the meteoric dust that cools Earth recently reported by NATURE magazine can simulate the behaviour of aluminium sequin and thus provide a assuring answer that the winds would not blow it away or that it is not bunched up. But then again also is where to place the sequin in orbit and the distance can prevent the solar wind factor and prevent the bunching up factor. So it is not as if the constraints are prohibitive everywhere in orbit but rather we find the optimal orbit for which aluminium works the best. There is perhaps one particle already in orbit that can be the model for aluminum sequin and that is the microorganisms in the upper atmosphere. Of course the aluminium sequin is going to be a larger surface area than is the microorganisms. And those microbes are not affected by solar winds. Perhaps the final answer is some microbe that loves living up there and reproduces itself, however, I wrote extensively in past years that a microbe as Earth Air Conditioner could be dangerous as a microbe could choke off Earth if it multiplies too much in the atmosphere and we find ourselves in the situation of going up there to "clean out the place by some microbe killer". But if a microbe can flourish there, I am rather afraid or resigned to the fact that it will establish itself without the help or intervention of humans and we will face this prospect some future date no matter whether we seed the upper atmosphere with microbes or not. Even if not, all the space it occupied (and most likely all space in the vicinity of the Earth) would be unusable to satellites and spacecraft, and the whole sky would be a featureless haze to radio astronomers! My rough, very rough calculations is that 3 cargo hauled space launches with the cargo full of Aluminium Sequin to the Space Station would provide a full one year Earth Air-Conditioner that would last for 2 years and prevent all hurricanes from forming over the Gulf waters. And would cool Earth on average 1 degree Celcius per year because the reflectivity of Aluminium Sequin is 10^9 greater than the reflection and absorption of either volcanic ash or meteoric dust. A much more effective idea, suggested by Arthur C Clarke I think, would be a diverging Fresnel lens a couple of thousand miles in diameter and floating between Earth and Sun at one of the Lagrange points, L1. See: Actually, Clarke's is more of a pipe dream than an effective and pragmatic idea. The energy to build it, to haul it, to keep it in place is such a huge energy that it would cost more in energy than Aluminium Sequin for the next thousands of years. Some scientists have even worked the calculations showing that these Lagrange points are very unstable and very energy consuming to keep whatever is built there. The Lagrange points, in my opinion, have become science myths and scientists should debunk them more, so that people like John should never get caught up in these myths. For I remember some poster many years back said that a structure built on a Lagrange point would disintegrate in about a few months upon completion. http://www.physics.montana.edu/facul.../lagrange.html Before anyone points out the technical hurdles to overcome in grinding a glass slab of that size, let me add that a Fresnel lens is flat and deviates light (or IR and UV?) by means of a fine grating, usually circular. It can be wafer thin and made from plastic, presumably by a small army of miniature bots working round the edge each like a spider spinning its web. Cheers John R Ramsden I am convinced that in such a major project as Earth-Air-Conditioner that the first one is closer to home-- the planet itself. And the first one maybe crude compared to the future ones. But it is a progressive stepwise technology for Earth-Air-Conditioner. The important thing is to get the first one in place and then future improvements will accrue thereof. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
wrote in message oups.com... Tim, Mati and Jumbah are correct. The good thing about tropical storms is (1) they don't always become hurricanes; (2) they are terrific rain makers. I was under the impression they were discussing Katrina - I may be missing a post or two. |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
I do not dispute the existence of Lagrange points of gravity between
Earth and Sun. That is not why I call it a myth to be debunked. I dispute the idea that these Lagrange points are ever a useful engineering platform to build something like an Earth Air Conditioner. These Lagrange points to me are theoretical points in space but not practical points in space. Who knows whether they are stationary points for a given amount of time or whether they fluctuate in location wildly and rapidly. The theory of these Lagrange points is okay, it is the engineering value that I question as to them being any use. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
I do not mean stationary points, I mean stable points in space. Who
knows whether a passing comet unbalances the Lagrange L1 or L2. Who knows if a Sun flare rearranges L1 or L2. Who knows the perturbations of the massive planets in the system alter L1 and L2 from one minute to the next. Lagrange points exist but the perturbations of the solar system probably makes L1 and L2 an unviable engineering platform. I maybe wrong on this evaluation but it is the best I can ado at this moment. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
James Toupin wrote: All the variables and implications have to be taken into account before any course of action is taken. If you try to do that with a non-linear recursive system like the one we breathe from, live on and swim in you will wait forever before acting. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanes before 2005 ends
Bob Cain wrote:
If you try to do that with a non-linear recursive system like the one we breathe from, live on and swim in you will wait forever before acting. Bob Well said. One of the duties of being a scientist is to act when the world situation calls for you to act. And example of this is evident with the rebuilding of New Orleans in that the science community should be out front and center by informing the politicians that it is insane to rebuild old New Orleans on the same plot of land. And that given the present circumstances, that a science leader would build a Newest Orleans on ground above sea level and on ground for which building foundations can reach solid bedrock. If Baton Rouge fits that description then the answer is simply to make Baton Rouge twice its size. And the only thing worth building in old New Orleans would be au-naturale without any levees or pumping but a American style Venice with canals and transportation by boat. There is a old saying in finances, which I suppose transfers to economics. And the saying is "don't throw good money after bad money" or "don't chase bad money with that of good money". Same can be said of New Orleans in that if rebuilt and a month later or a year later another hurricane destroys New Orleans, a lot of politicians are going to look very foolish. As I said before, there should be a Federal Zoning code. Local zoning forbids us to build on swamps. Forbids us to build on land where bedrock is unreachable. So the entire city of New Orleans fails all building codes of this entire nation and because it fails, the federal law should forbid us to rebuild on the same plot of land. It is commonsense that if you have a city so vulnerable to storms, because it is below sea level, that no politician should be left with the guilt that when the next storm strikes and thousands are drowned that those politicians who rebuilt New Orleans are directly responsible for that future tragedy. A tragedy of stupidity. Another poster named Per said that Holland has lived with underwater building for centuries. That is true and admirable. But there is a big difference between New Orleans and Holland. Holland has no choice but to turn back the tide. Here in the USA we have ample choice of higher dry land where only the insane would build below sea level. The sane people of New Orleans would have put their house up for sale, just as the sane people of Florida would be putting their house up for sale and finding a job elsewhere because the entire Coast due to Global Warming causing killer hurricanes is uninhabitable, and they would have done this sometime between 2000 and July of 2005. I myself had a piece of land in northern Florida circa 2001 but sold it. I did not sell it directly because of Global Warming causing killer hurricanes. But that reality faces nearly everyone living on the coast now. The reality is that killer hurricanes are making every Gulf Coast state almost uninhabitable, at least for the summer months but who wants to visit a state that has rubble all over. The answer to all of these problems is Earth Air-Conditioner of putting Aluminium Sequin into orbit so that the Gulf waters cannot form hurricanes. I wonder if aluminum sequin placed in orbit can be made to stay in a restricted orbit of about the equator latitudes so there would be a band of sequin mostly in the equator region. Because the equator of Earth is mostly water and not land. Because if in orbit the sequin can be confined to a latitude, means that we can control the climate and weather of Earth even more so. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Many are losing sight that we may have 2 more Katrina-like-Hurricanesbefore 2005 ends
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