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Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose
strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80º F, 26º C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75º F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? One of the most well-known chemicals with this property is ammonium nitrate, NH4NO3, commonly used to make fertilizer. This temperature reduction property also allows its use in instant cold packs. According to this page 14 kg of ammonium nitrate could be used to freeze 14 liters, 14 kg, of water: Making ice without machinery http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...5573.Ch.r.html The page calculates the amount of ammonium nitrate required to reduce the temperature from 25º C to the freezing point but then notes an additional amount of heat energy needs to be removed to induce the phase change from liquid to solid. If you only want to reduce the temperature from 25º C to 0º C, then only about 1/4 the amount of NH4NO3 needed for freezing needs to be used. And if you only need to cause a temperature reduction by about 3º C, the amount can be reduced further by a factor of 1/8th. So the amount would be less than 1/30th that needed to induce freezing for this low amount of temperature reduction. There is a reason though why you might want to induce freezing. You would want to keep the temperature reduced over the covered area for some time so that the hurricane has time to dissipate. If the water were frozen at the surface, then it would require some time for this to melt. (BTW, the freezing point of seawater is only 2 degrees C less than that of fresh water so this would require only minimally more temperature reduction.) The question is how much NH4NO3 would be required for this task? For the freezing, about the same amount in weight as the water you wanted to freeze. There are a couple of options for its placement. You could try to freeze the surface water within the eye or you could freeze the water in front of the hurricanes expected path. I'll use an optimistic size of the eye as 10 km across, though for some hurricanes the eye can be 3 to 4 times this size. So it would be an area on the order of 100 square kilometers. How thick do you want the ice? That depends on how quickly you would expect it to melt at the 26º C surrounding temperatures. I'll take as a guess for the thickness of 1 cm. Then this is a volume of 10,000m x 10,000m x .01m = 1,000,000 m^3. This is 1,000,000 metric tons of water. Then it would require that amount in weight of NH4NO3. The worldwide production of ammonium nitrate is in the millions of tons per year so this would require a significant proportion of that. But this is within the annual production capacity of individual chemical plants: Our Products - Terra Industries Inc. http://www.terraindustries.com/our_products/intro.htm So it is feasible if kept in storage until needed. For transporting this amount, there are supertankers capable of transporting hundreds of thousands of metric tons of crude oil. Less than 10 would be sufficient to transport the required amount. The ammonium nitrate would have to be sprayed at high speed to disperse it over the required area. It would require much less if you only wanted to decrease the temperature 3 degrees C, perhaps only 30,000 metric tons for the same volume of water. You would want this to be in very fine powder so would rapidly mix with the water. A problem is the temperature would rapidly rise from the surrounding water and air. What might be needed would be some method of slow release to constantly keep the temperature lowered. The packets containing the ammonium nitrate held within a slow release fabric would also have to be buoyant so that the ammonium nitrate is concentrated near the surface. However, the amount required might not wind up to be significantly less than the freezing method because the ammonium nitrate has to be continually supplied. These were estimates for covering the surface water within the eye of the hurricane. The eye is moving perhaps 10 km/hr and higher. At this speed it would leave the covered area within an hour. Would this be enough to dissipate the hurricane? Unknown. The other possibility would be to cover the expected track ahead of the hurricane. The front of the hurricane might be 100 km or more across. For this to be feasible you would need a thinner region to cover, say 100km by only 1 km. Then in this case the hurricane would pass over this region even faster. But it is unknown which method, covering the water within the eye or the water in front, would be more effective in dissipating its strength. Bob Clark |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:26:32, Uncle Al wrote:
wrote: Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80§ F, 26§ C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75§ F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? [snip crap] Cylinder of water 70 miles in radius and 25 feet deep. Cool from 90 F to 70 F, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(7.62 meters x10^2)(11.11 C) -- 3.38x10^18 calories 3.38x10^18 calories = 1.41x10^19 joules = 3,378 megatonnes equivalent Ya gonna absorb that energy with dissolving ammonium nitrate, git? Cylinder of vegetable oil 70 miles in radius and 1 cm thick, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(1) = 4x10^14 cm^3 = 10^11 gallons Gonna pour oil on troubled waters, git? Al again you are correct, but not very nice. Keep up the good work. |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
Uncle Al wrote: wrote: Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80º F, 26º C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75º F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? [snip crap] Cylinder of water 70 miles in radius and 25 feet deep. Cool from 90 F to 70 F, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(7.62 meters x10^2)(11.11 C) -- 3.38x10^18 calories 3.38x10^18 calories = 1.41x10^19 joules = 3,378 megatonnes equivalent Ice covered lakes and rivers only have a relatively small layer of ice on top. You only need to lower the temperature for a shallow upper layer. Bob Clark |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
Still, there does exist an easy, cheap & elegant solution to curb and
dissipate the energy of high energy Hurricanes ! (... but not for the giving, due to all those Mining Criminals and their Australian Political Criminal Backers in ambush or roaming all over the place ! ) .... and a very simple application of the True Geology indeed. Very sorry not being able to help at the present time, but hoping gratitude and recognition for service rendered to such Criminals ' Countries & the people therein , is being both stupid & very naïve, as I have experimented first hand ! With best regards -- Jean-Paul Turcaud Exploration Geologist Founder of the True Geology ~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~ "Uncle Al" a écrit dans le message de news: ... wrote: Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80º F, 26º C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75º F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? [snip crap] Cylinder of water 70 miles in radius and 25 feet deep. Cool from 90 F to 70 F, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(7.62 meters x10^2)(11.11 C) -- 3.38x10^18 calories 3.38x10^18 calories = 1.41x10^19 joules = 3,378 megatonnes equivalent Ya gonna absorb that energy with dissolving ammonium nitrate, git? Cylinder of vegetable oil 70 miles in radius and 1 cm thick, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(1) = 4x10^14 cm^3 = 10^11 gallons Gonna pour oil on troubled waters, git? -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reducehurricane strength?
Uncle Al wrote:
wrote: Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80º F, 26º C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75º F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? [snip crap] Cylinder of water 70 miles in radius and 25 feet deep. Cool from 90 F to 70 F, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(7.62 meters x10^2)(11.11 C) -- 3.38x10^18 calories 3.38x10^18 calories = 1.41x10^19 joules = 3,378 megatonnes equivalent Ya gonna absorb that energy with dissolving ammonium nitrate, git? Cylinder of vegetable oil 70 miles in radius and 1 cm thick, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(1) = 4x10^14 cm^3 = 10^11 gallons Gonna pour oil on troubled waters, git? Maybe we could use some kind of reversed nuke to suck out the heat and blast it into space... -- Dirk The Consensus:- The political party for the new millenium http://www.theconsensus.org |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
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Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reducehurricane strength?
Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
Still, there does exist an easy, cheap & elegant solution to curb and dissipate the energy of high energy Hurricanes ! (... but not for the giving, due to all those Mining Criminals and their Australian Political Criminal Backers in ambush or roaming all over the place ! ) ... and a very simple application of the True Geology indeed. Very sorry not being able to help at the present time, but hoping gratitude and recognition for service rendered to such Criminals ' Countries & the people therein , is being both stupid & very naïve, as I have experimented first hand ! With best regards I too have a surefire way of stopping hurricanes. However, I need one billion dollars placed in my bank account before I will reveal the secret. -- Dirk The Consensus:- The political party for the new millenium http://www.theconsensus.org |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce hurricane strength?
Captain Picard...and the point of your post was...???? Oh wait "I am a
self-fulfilling paranoid ****nut starving for attention". I think I remember a movie like this not too long ago. The guy kills himself at the end. Hope the grass is greener on the other side. Uncle Al, excellent math. It's sad that at least 5 times every hurricane season someone needs to rehash simple physics and volumetric calculations to overcome the poorly thought out world-saving inventions of senseless fools. Granted there are dozens of inventions every day in the world, but 99% end up on the home shopping network and only about 1% are generated by true scientific genius. Bob, if these were even remotely feasible solutions, they would have been done long ago. Take the time to think through the math, practicality, scalability and ecological results, and if the solution STILL holds water (no pun intended)-- you might actually have a winner. "Jean-Paul Turcaud" wrote in message ... Still, there does exist an easy, cheap & elegant solution to curb and dissipate the energy of high energy Hurricanes ! (... but not for the giving, due to all those Mining Criminals and their Australian Political Criminal Backers in ambush or roaming all over the place ! ) ... and a very simple application of the True Geology indeed. Very sorry not being able to help at the present time, but hoping gratitude and recognition for service rendered to such Criminals ' Countries & the people therein , is being both stupid & very naïve, as I have experimented first hand ! With best regards -- Jean-Paul Turcaud Exploration Geologist Founder of the True Geology ~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~ "Uncle Al" a écrit dans le message de news: ... wrote: Hurricanes grow stronger over warm waters and correspondingly lose strength over cool waters. Hurricanes typically need an ocean temperature of about 80º F, 26º C, to form. This page shows the cooler waters following Hurricane Bonnie caused Hurricane Danielle following in Bonnie's wake to lose strength and dissipate: What Lies Beneath a Hurricane. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast11sep_1.htm According to the graphic on this page, the temperature only had to be reduced to about 75º F for this to occur. So could we cover the expected hurricane path with chemicals that produce a temperature reduction on mixing with water to reduce the ocean temperature? [snip crap] Cylinder of water 70 miles in radius and 25 feet deep. Cool from 90 F to 70 F, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(7.62 meters x10^2)(11.11 C) -- 3.38x10^18 calories 3.38x10^18 calories = 1.41x10^19 joules = 3,378 megatonnes equivalent Ya gonna absorb that energy with dissolving ammonium nitrate, git? Cylinder of vegetable oil 70 miles in radius and 1 cm thick, (pi)(112.65 km x 10^5)^2(1) = 4x10^14 cm^3 = 10^11 gallons Gonna pour oil on troubled waters, git? -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf |
Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reducehurricane strength?
Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote: Still, there does exist an easy, cheap & elegant solution to curb and dissipate the energy of high energy Hurricanes ! (... but not for the giving, due to all those Mining Criminals and their Australian Political Criminal Backers in ambush or roaming all over the place ! ) ... and a very simple application of the True Geology indeed. Very sorry not being able to help at the present time, but hoping gratitude and recognition for service rendered to such Criminals ' Countries & the people therein , is being both stupid & very naïve, as I have experimented first hand ! With best regards I too have a surefire way of stopping hurricanes. However, I need one billion dollars placed in my bank account before I will reveal the secret. Enginers have a saying, "The devil is in the details." Chemists should learn it. |
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