Yeah, from the way one is attacked for expressing their viewpoint and
opinions they probably are under some sort of scrutiny. I bet it is
members of their organization posing in this newsgroup in an effort to
scare off people who speak their minds and opinions! From what I have
read, they probably cannot afford individuals speaking out about them!
They would rather try to censor opinions and purchasing decisions!
Can you say CENSORSHIP!

When this sort of activity occurs, you can certainly be sure that much
truth exists about what is said!

But, most importantly, I kinda laugh! It is these fools who fly around
and always depend on critical systems ALWAYS operating. They NEVER
wonder about RELIABILITY until it is too late! Usually, this is about
the time when they undershoot the runway and see that big tree coming
at an incredible speed! I bet then, at that last flash, before the
crash, they think, where'd that information come from! What
instruments were used! Who gave me such information? Was the
maintenance REALLY performed on my aircraft and the airport's
instrumentation!

The time to gather information and stave off the above scenarios is
before you find yourself in such a situation! The time to question
things is when things do NOT look right or appear to be suspect!

Thus, if they are happy with instruments from Belfort Instruments, then
by all means let the minority learn. But, to ignore the truth, and
make flaming statements just shows their ignorance or failure to accept
knowledge that others possess! This is probably the answer! They are
NOT in the "IN" crowd! What a shame! Maybe they will convert soon!

Questioning, observing, and reporting the facts is good practice!
Deceit, inciting, and propaganda allows inferior product into the
marketplace! This should not occur, and needs to be changed so that a
fair and honest playing field exist for all! Sabotage of opinions is
their viewpoint is asset management!

wrote:
It looks like they may be in trouble and their ship is sinking! Anyone
know what they are being investigated about?
belfortsucks wrote:
Is anyone out there, aware of an investigation of Belfort Instruments
and it's business practices! If so, let me know.

Based on the postings which I have seen here, it appears that Belfort
Instruments is engaged in an attempt to suppress the ideas and "freedom
of speech" of individuals who do not perceive them as a successful
company. Even their responses to legitimate criticisms displays their
lack of "Customer Service" and desire to correct their faults! Thus,
they would rather "SHOUT" down anyone who has something to say rather
than fix the problems! As we all know, this only makes things worse on
them and their business when they count their pennies earned!

Question: Should demos be considered as sold units? Are demos sold as
new units? What do you think? Open discussions serve to raise the
question, offer solutions, uncover misleading activity, and serves to
correct such problems!

Also, if a company utilizes inferior materials in a product, they only
shall change such materials once they have been identified. Purchasing
from a reliable company forces the others to change in a free economy.
Any consumer should weigh all of the facts which they have obtained and
make a thorough buying decision.

Also, what kind of company publicly labels it former employees as
backstabbers? Do you want to purchase from such a company with such a
philosophy! You be the judge! Where is the story of "Little Red
Riding Hood" when you need it!

Bunch of crap. All of it.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah, from the way one is attacked for expressing their viewpoint and
opinions they probably are under some sort of scrutiny. I bet it is
members of their organization posing in this newsgroup in an effort to
scare off people who speak their minds and opinions! From what I have
read, they probably cannot afford individuals speaking out about them!
They would rather try to censor opinions and purchasing decisions!
Can you say CENSORSHIP!

When this sort of activity occurs, you can certainly be sure that much
truth exists about what is said!

But, most importantly, I kinda laugh! It is these fools who fly around
and always depend on critical systems ALWAYS operating. They NEVER
wonder about RELIABILITY until it is too late! Usually, this is about
the time when they undershoot the runway and see that big tree coming
at an incredible speed! I bet then, at that last flash, before the
crash, they think, where'd that information come from! What
instruments were used! Who gave me such information? Was the
maintenance REALLY performed on my aircraft and the airport's
instrumentation!

The time to gather information and stave off the above scenarios is
before you find yourself in such a situation! The time to question
things is when things do NOT look right or appear to be suspect!

Thus, if they are happy with instruments from Belfort Instruments, then
by all means let the minority learn. But, to ignore the truth, and
make flaming statements just shows their ignorance or failure to accept
knowledge that others possess! This is probably the answer! They are
NOT in the "IN" crowd! What a shame! Maybe they will convert soon!

Questioning, observing, and reporting the facts is good practice!
Deceit, inciting, and propaganda allows inferior product into the
marketplace! This should not occur, and needs to be changed so that a
fair and honest playing field exist for all! Sabotage of opinions is
their viewpoint is asset management!

wrote:
It looks like they may be in trouble and their ship is sinking! Anyone
know what they are being investigated about?
belfortsucks wrote:
Is anyone out there, aware of an investigation of Belfort Instruments
and it's business practices! If so, let me know.

Based on the postings which I have seen here, it appears that Belfort
Instruments is engaged in an attempt to suppress the ideas and "freedom
of speech" of individuals who do not perceive them as a successful
company. Even their responses to legitimate criticisms displays their
lack of "Customer Service" and desire to correct their faults! Thus,
they would rather "SHOUT" down anyone who has something to say rather
than fix the problems! As we all know, this only makes things worse on
them and their business when they count their pennies earned!

Question: Should demos be considered as sold units? Are demos sold as
new units? What do you think? Open discussions serve to raise the
question, offer solutions, uncover misleading activity, and serves to
correct such problems!

Also, if a company utilizes inferior materials in a product, they only
shall change such materials once they have been identified. Purchasing
from a reliable company forces the others to change in a free economy.
Any consumer should weigh all of the facts which they have obtained and
make a thorough buying decision.

Also, what kind of company publicly labels it former employees as
backstabbers? Do you want to purchase from such a company with such a
philosophy! You be the judge! Where is the story of "Little Red
Riding Hood" when you need it!

I doubt it! Anyway, get a spoon and start eating ... sounds like your
hungry!
Hank Sniadoch wrote:
Bunch of crap. All of it.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah, from the way one is attacked for expressing their viewpoint and
opinions they probably are under some sort of scrutiny. I bet it is
members of their organization posing in this newsgroup in an effort to
scare off people who speak their minds and opinions! From what I have
read, they probably cannot afford individuals speaking out about them!
They would rather try to censor opinions and purchasing decisions!
Can you say CENSORSHIP!

When this sort of activity occurs, you can certainly be sure that much
truth exists about what is said!

But, most importantly, I kinda laugh! It is these fools who fly around
and always depend on critical systems ALWAYS operating. They NEVER
wonder about RELIABILITY until it is too late! Usually, this is about
the time when they undershoot the runway and see that big tree coming
at an incredible speed! I bet then, at that last flash, before the
crash, they think, where'd that information come from! What
instruments were used! Who gave me such information? Was the
maintenance REALLY performed on my aircraft and the airport's
instrumentation!

The time to gather information and stave off the above scenarios is
before you find yourself in such a situation! The time to question
things is when things do NOT look right or appear to be suspect!

Thus, if they are happy with instruments from Belfort Instruments, then
by all means let the minority learn. But, to ignore the truth, and
make flaming statements just shows their ignorance or failure to accept
knowledge that others possess! This is probably the answer! They are
NOT in the "IN" crowd! What a shame! Maybe they will convert soon!

Questioning, observing, and reporting the facts is good practice!
Deceit, inciting, and propaganda allows inferior product into the
marketplace! This should not occur, and needs to be changed so that a
fair and honest playing field exist for all! Sabotage of opinions is
their viewpoint is asset management!

wrote:
It looks like they may be in trouble and their ship is sinking! Anyone
know what they are being investigated about?
belfortsucks wrote:
Is anyone out there, aware of an investigation of Belfort Instruments
and it's business practices! If so, let me know.

Based on the postings which I have seen here, it appears that Belfort
Instruments is engaged in an attempt to suppress the ideas and "freedom
of speech" of individuals who do not perceive them as a successful
company. Even their responses to legitimate criticisms displays their
lack of "Customer Service" and desire to correct their faults! Thus,
they would rather "SHOUT" down anyone who has something to say rather
than fix the problems! As we all know, this only makes things worse on
them and their business when they count their pennies earned!

Question: Should demos be considered as sold units? Are demos sold as
new units? What do you think? Open discussions serve to raise the
question, offer solutions, uncover misleading activity, and serves to
correct such problems!

Also, if a company utilizes inferior materials in a product, they only
shall change such materials once they have been identified. Purchasing
from a reliable company forces the others to change in a free economy.
Any consumer should weigh all of the facts which they have obtained and
make a thorough buying decision.

Also, what kind of company publicly labels it former employees as
backstabbers? Do you want to purchase from such a company with such a
philosophy! You be the judge! Where is the story of "Little Red
Riding Hood" when you need it!

Why go with a follower when you choose from
among the Leaders in AWOS weather systems like:

http://www.vaisala.com/businessareas/solutions/av
iationweather/products/automatedweatherobservings
ystems

http://www.allweatherinc.com/aviation/awos_dom.ht
ml

http://www.superawos.com

These three vendors have AWOS weather systems
which have been "commissioned" by the FAA. Not
every company can say that.... so do YOUR
homework! Or you'll be sorry....

and CHECK OUT THIS VALID COMPARISON of AWOS:
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm

WHY WASTE YOUR MONIES ON AN INFERIOR AWOS?

Thanks, I think that Vaisala system looks like a fantastic deal. Still
considering the others though!

Thanks for your perspective and opinion!

wrote:
Why go with a follower when you choose from
among the Leaders in AWOS weather systems like:

http://www.vaisala.com/businessareas/solutions/av
iationweather/products/automatedweatherobservings
ystems

http://www.allweatherinc.com/aviation/awos_dom.ht
ml

http://www.superawos.com

These three vendors have AWOS weather systems
which have been "commissioned" by the FAA. Not
every company can say that.... so do YOUR
homework! Or you'll be sorry....

and CHECK OUT THIS VALID COMPARISON of AWOS:
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm

WHY WASTE YOUR MONIES ON AN INFERIOR AWOS?

The Wright Brothers Relied exclusively on a
Richard's Anemometer to record wind speed and
direction. Here is a history documenting the
defintive proof including a picture of Wilbur
Wright actually using Richard's anemometer.
DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!


THE HISTORY: Octave Chanute responded to
Wilbur's letter on May 12th, 1901. He suggested
that Wilbur specify whether he wanted to use the
English [Robinson, a cup type] or French
anemometer [Richard of Paris, a rotating vane
type] at the appropriate time. [An anemometer is
an instrument used to determine the wind's
speed. The English anemometer is a Robinson
anemometer, a cup type. The French anemometer is
by Richard of Paris and is a rotating vane type.]

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/history1_1901
4.html


WILBUR WRIGHT TO OCTAVE CHANUTE
Dayton, Ohio, May 17, 1901

As to anemometer we are inclined to think that
we would prefer the nonrecording Richard's
instrument as our chief use for it will be
measuring velocities for very brief periods.

http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors
/i/Wrights/library/Chanute_Wright_correspond/1901
/May17-1901.html


RICHARD ANEMOMETER
The Wrights borrowed this French-made, hand-held
anemometer from Octave Chanute and used it to
measure wind speeds during their flight tests at
Kitty Hawk.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/fly/1900/te
stflying.cfm


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1903
An anemometer, or wind gauge, is an instrument
for measuring the force and speed of wind. The
earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas
Romney Robinson (1793 - 1882). This gauge uses
an arrangement of cups on a spindle to detect
the wind and a series of clockwork connections
to translate the speed of the rotating cups to a
wind speed value. Octave Chanute, the Wright's
French colleague, brought them a later
anemometer made by Richard of Paris.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/sept.htm
l


WRITINGS OF THE WRIGHT BROTHERS (Final Prep)

We had a "Richard" hand anemometer with which we
measured the velocity of the wind. Measurements
made just before starting the first flight
(December 17, 1903) showed velocities of 11 to
12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last
flight (December 17, 1903) gave between 9 and 10
meters per second. One made just after showed a
little over 8 meters.


WILBUR WRIGHT WITH RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)

http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm


How about this blog: http://digi****.blog.cz/

Thanks for the information! I wonder if the Wright Brothers knew they
were NOT FAA certified! LOL

Anyway, they will probably be out of business soon, since certification
these days, means everything!

We only use certified instruments ... enough said, yes!

wrote:
The Wright Brothers Relied exclusively on a
Richard's Anemometer to record wind speed and
direction. Here is a history documenting the
defintive proof including a picture of Wilbur
Wright actually using Richard's anemometer.
DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!


THE HISTORY: Octave Chanute responded to
Wilbur's letter on May 12th, 1901. He suggested
that Wilbur specify whether he wanted to use the
English [Robinson, a cup type] or French
anemometer [Richard of Paris, a rotating vane
type] at the appropriate time. [An anemometer is
an instrument used to determine the wind's
speed. The English anemometer is a Robinson
anemometer, a cup type. The French anemometer is
by Richard of Paris and is a rotating vane type.]

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/history1_1901
4.html


WILBUR WRIGHT TO OCTAVE CHANUTE
Dayton, Ohio, May 17, 1901

As to anemometer we are inclined to think that
we would prefer the nonrecording Richard's
instrument as our chief use for it will be
measuring velocities for very brief periods.

http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors
/i/Wrights/library/Chanute_Wright_correspond/1901
/May17-1901.html


RICHARD ANEMOMETER
The Wrights borrowed this French-made, hand-held
anemometer from Octave Chanute and used it to
measure wind speeds during their flight tests at
Kitty Hawk.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/fly/1900/te
stflying.cfm


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1903
An anemometer, or wind gauge, is an instrument
for measuring the force and speed of wind. The
earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas
Romney Robinson (1793 - 1882). This gauge uses
an arrangement of cups on a spindle to detect
the wind and a series of clockwork connections
to translate the speed of the rotating cups to a
wind speed value. Octave Chanute, the Wright's
French colleague, brought them a later
anemometer made by Richard of Paris.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/sept.htm
l


WRITINGS OF THE WRIGHT BROTHERS (Final Prep)

We had a "Richard" hand anemometer with which we
measured the velocity of the wind. Measurements
made just before starting the first flight
(December 17, 1903) showed velocities of 11 to
12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last
flight (December 17, 1903) gave between 9 and 10
meters per second. One made just after showed a
little over 8 meters.


WILBUR WRIGHT WITH RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)

http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm


How about this blog: http://digi****.blog.cz/

They'll probably be out of business by this Summer! Thus, I think your
advice is good advice! Heck, I may need some spare parts every now and
then! Right!

It's amazing that companies operate on the fringes but then expect the
trust of consumers!

wrote:
The Wright Brothers Relied exclusively on a
Richard's Anemometer to record wind speed and
direction. Here is a history documenting the
defintive proof including a picture of Wilbur
Wright actually using Richard's anemometer.
DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!


THE HISTORY: Octave Chanute responded to
Wilbur's letter on May 12th, 1901. He suggested
that Wilbur specify whether he wanted to use the
English [Robinson, a cup type] or French
anemometer [Richard of Paris, a rotating vane
type] at the appropriate time. [An anemometer is
an instrument used to determine the wind's
speed. The English anemometer is a Robinson
anemometer, a cup type. The French anemometer is
by Richard of Paris and is a rotating vane type.]

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/history1_1901
4.html


WILBUR WRIGHT TO OCTAVE CHANUTE
Dayton, Ohio, May 17, 1901

As to anemometer we are inclined to think that
we would prefer the nonrecording Richard's
instrument as our chief use for it will be
measuring velocities for very brief periods.

http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors
/i/Wrights/library/Chanute_Wright_correspond/1901
/May17-1901.html


RICHARD ANEMOMETER
The Wrights borrowed this French-made, hand-held
anemometer from Octave Chanute and used it to
measure wind speeds during their flight tests at
Kitty Hawk.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/fly/1900/te
stflying.cfm


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1903
An anemometer, or wind gauge, is an instrument
for measuring the force and speed of wind. The
earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas
Romney Robinson (1793 - 1882). This gauge uses
an arrangement of cups on a spindle to detect
the wind and a series of clockwork connections
to translate the speed of the rotating cups to a
wind speed value. Octave Chanute, the Wright's
French colleague, brought them a later
anemometer made by Richard of Paris.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/sept.htm
l


WRITINGS OF THE WRIGHT BROTHERS (Final Prep)

We had a "Richard" hand anemometer with which we
measured the velocity of the wind. Measurements
made just before starting the first flight
(December 17, 1903) showed velocities of 11 to
12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last
flight (December 17, 1903) gave between 9 and 10
meters per second. One made just after showed a
little over 8 meters.


WILBUR WRIGHT WITH RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)

http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm


How about this blog: http://digi****.blog.cz/

Belfort Instrument President Mark Decker gave me a DigiWx tee-shirt
this past summer at the SATS demo in Danville, Virginia and it reads:

"The Wright Brothers relied on us. December 17, 1903, Wind NE at 21
mph" while the Wright Brothers personally wrote on December 17, 1903:

"We had a 'Richard' hand anemometer with which we measured the velocity

of the wind. Measurements made just before starting the first flight
showed velocities of 11 to 12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last flight gave between 9 and
10
meters per second. One made just after showed a little over 8 meters."

And then there is that indisputable pictu

WILBUR WRIGHT USING A RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)
http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm

You won't find a picture of the Belfort/Friez weather station (circa
1897-1913) with the Wright Brothers in the background or the foreground

because there isn't one! In fact, there is no direct evidence (written
or otherwise) that Belfort or Friez ever had a weather station at Kitty

Hawk, NC in December 1903. And there is no direct evidence (written or
otherwise) that the US Weather Bureau ever bought the Belfort/Friez
weather station and placed it in use on the outer banks of North
Carolina.

The Wright Brothers chose the outer banks of North Carolina for three
reasons:

1) they needed a large open space to conduct their flight experiments
2) they needed a soft landing environment which "beach sand" provided,
and 3) they needed steady winds which all beaches usually have.

Additionally, Belfort claims to have been founded in 1876. Yet, Julien
Friez never made it to Baltimore until at least 1890 according to:
http://www.colby.edu/sts/97guide/sm_nmah.html

"Julien Pierre Friez (1852-1916) was born in France and came to the
United States at the age of 15. He worked with Robert Henning in
Ottawa,
Illinois on telegraphy equipment, circa 1868; later he was a foreman
for
Ottomar Mergentheler, circa 1880-1890. After leaving Mergentheler,
Friez moved to Baltimore where he set up Belfort Laboratories and began
a
manufacture of scientific instruments. He later acquired an interest in

meteorology and did important work on the design and manufacture of
meteorological recording instruments."

Lastly, Belfort claims to be "The Oldest Weather Company in the World"
yet the earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas Romney Robinson
(1793 - 1882). Mr. Robinson invented his anemometer in 1846 before
Julian Friez even was born six years later in 1852. I think that makes
Mr.
Robinson the creator of "The Oldest Weather Company in the World."
http://www.universityscience.ie/page...y_robinson.php

How disingenuous can a company get ?????????????????????????

Belfort Instrument Company is FULL OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad they had to "hijack" their fabled company history while taking
away from the accomplishments and endeavors of the Wright Brothers
and from Thomas Romney Robinson!

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO ??????????????????????????

We were considering a DigiWx AWOS and a SuperAWOS. I was sold on DigiWx
AWOS until I started talking with DigiWx users who had the DigiWx VOICE
option including Huntington UT, Annapolis MD, Monticello UT and Ocean
City, NJ after I saw the comparison at
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm. SuperAWOS told me I
wouldn't find any happy users and I didn't!

All four airports report DigiWx VOICE as not working greater than 90%
of the time. I did hear one user say that DigiWx had mic clicks
available. But SuperAWOS say DigiWx mic clicks is not automatically
adaptive --- only manually adaptive which means there has to be
somebody available to alter the message length on an Automated Unicom
transmission.

Considering all the other things I have been hearing about DigiWx and
the Belfort Instrument Company, I believe we will be pursuing the
SuperAWOS product instead even though it costs more. But like someone
already said, buy **** and you'll have ****! We don't want any DigiWx
turds around on our airport!