The UAH MSU data are in. December's global mean was .235
which is .93 SIGMA, .2047, above the mean, .04542. There is
nothing cool on this planet!

Please see:
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.2

Use your own eyes. Look at these data and you can see
the warming. Follow the minus signs.

"Roger Coppock" wrote in message
ups.com...
The UAH MSU data are in. December's global mean was .235
which is .93 SIGMA, .2047, above the mean, .04542. There is
nothing cool on this planet!

Well go ask the people in China. They'll tell you different.

China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.

"Roger Coppock" skrev i melding
oups.com...
China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.


That is right.
Winter will always bring some cold spells, even
farther to the south than expected.

The real news is the warm spells that can now
be experienced in the far north even in winter!
And the general raise in median temperatures.

Just to put the weather report from China in perspective:
Yesterday the northern part of Norway saw the warmest
January day since temperature measurements started 150
years ago. Svalbard (in some countries called Spitzbergen),
which is situated on 78 degrees North, is in for temps. of
around 3 degrees Celsius tomorrow! There is no wonder
why December brought a new record minimum for extent
of Arctic sea ice:

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/n_plot.html

Those AGW-deniers does not know the difference
between weather and climate, and few of them will
ever be willing to learn, it seems.

--
rgds rL

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:33:41 GMT, "Roald B. Larsen"
wrote:

:
:"Roger Coppock" skrev i melding
roups.com...
: China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.
:
:
:That is right.
:Winter will always bring some cold spells, even
:farther to the south than expected.
:
:The real news is the warm spells that can now
:be experienced in the far north even in winter!
:And the general raise in median temperatures.
:
:Just to put the weather report from China in perspective:
:Yesterday the northern part of Norway saw the warmest
:January day since temperature measurements started 150
:years ago. Svalbard (in some countries called Spitzbergen),
:which is situated on 78 degrees North, is in for temps. of
:around 3 degrees Celsius tomorrow! There is no wonder
:why December brought a new record minimum for extent
f Arctic sea ice:
:
:http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/n_plot.html
:
:Those AGW-deniers does not know the difference
:between weather and climate, and few of them will
:ever be willing to learn, it seems.

A quick question for you.

I'll assume that GW is real, and that it's entirely man made.

Are you SURE it's a bad thing? Absolutely sure?

Are we already above the optimum global climate temperature? I mean,
if you take all human activites into account, everything from growing
crops to sunbathing on the beach, would we be better off with a colder
overall climate temperature? Because I've read accounts of the little
ice age, and it sounded awful.

It's possible, I suppose, that in 1990 we were at the absolue optimum
temperature and since then it's been worse for humans as it's gotten a
little hotter. But that seems like an awfully big coincidence. Isn't
it just as likely that if things get a little warmer, the growing
season is longer, so there's more food and fewer people are hungry,
people use less oil to keep warm in the winter, you can live at a
higher lattitude - that all that would all be a good thing?

"Richard Riley" wrote in message
...

A quick question for you.

I'll assume that GW is real, and that it's entirely man made.

Are you SURE it's a bad thing? Absolutely sure?

Are we already above the optimum global climate temperature? I mean,
if you take all human activites into account, everything from growing
crops to sunbathing on the beach, would we be better off with a colder
overall climate temperature? Because I've read accounts of the little
ice age, and it sounded awful.

It's possible, I suppose, that in 1990 we were at the absolue optimum
temperature and since then it's been worse for humans as it's gotten a
little hotter. But that seems like an awfully big coincidence. Isn't
it just as likely that if things get a little warmer, the growing
season is longer, so there's more food and fewer people are hungry,
people use less oil to keep warm in the winter, you can live at a
higher lattitude - that all that would all be a good thing?

Hi Richard,

This is an entirely reasonable question, and you ask it very well.

I don't know if there is such a thing as an "optimum" average temperature.
Surely it is advantageous not having as much land trapped beneath ice sheets
as there was 20K years ago, but between the climate 1 or 200 years ago and
one with tropical forests inside the arctic circle, why should one degree be
better or worse than another?

But the critical issue with what is going on today (and perhaps also what
went on 55Myrs ago during the PETM) is not where the temperature is or is
not, but how fast it is moving. Rapid change is the only real danger. Just
as in the Little Ice Age you brought up, it was not so much a problem that
it *was* colder but that it *got* colder. Habits and infrastructure were
suited to weather that no longer came. But even then the change was not so
rapid or widespread that there was any significant loss of biodiversity
(AFAIK). Similarily, there is hardly any intrinsic difference between one
mean sea level and another, but it would be nice if the water stayed below
port city street levels and so many of us live right on the current
shoreline.

The rate at which the global temperature is rising today is apparently
unprecedented in the history of our species and at least very rare in
geological history. What we know about ecosystems and what geologic history
demonstrates is that such dramatic changes - up or down or sideways - are a
tremendous shock to the biosphere.

And that, all in all, is not likely to be a good thing at all.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

Richard Riley wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:33:41 GMT, "Roald B. Larsen"
wrote:

:
:"Roger Coppock" skrev i melding
roups.com...
: China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.
:
:
:That is right.
:Winter will always bring some cold spells, even
:farther to the south than expected.
:
:The real news is the warm spells that can now
:be experienced in the far north even in winter!
:And the general raise in median temperatures.
:
:Just to put the weather report from China in perspective:
:Yesterday the northern part of Norway saw the warmest
:January day since temperature measurements started 150
:years ago. Svalbard (in some countries called Spitzbergen),
:which is situated on 78 degrees North, is in for temps. of
:around 3 degrees Celsius tomorrow! There is no wonder
:why December brought a new record minimum for extent
f Arctic sea ice:
:
:http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/n_plot.html
:
:Those AGW-deniers does not know the difference
:between weather and climate, and few of them will
:ever be willing to learn, it seems.

A quick question for you.

I'll assume that GW is real, and that it's entirely man made.

Evidence suggests that it isn't entirely man-made.


Are you SURE it's a bad thing? Absolutely sure?

No. It will probably be better for some, worse for others. The
overall balance is incredibly difficult to access. One of the
big problems is the rate of change. It becomes more difficult,
if not impossible, for people and ecosystems to adapt as the
rate of climate change gets larger.


Are we already above the optimum global climate temperature? I mean,
if you take all human activites into account, everything from growing
crops to sunbathing on the beach, would we be better off with a colder
overall climate temperature? Because I've read accounts of the little
ice age, and it sounded awful.

I recently finished a book (the name escapes me and I don't have
it with me, but it is a recent publication), that suggests that global
warming may have forestalled a turn back toward an ice age
during that past couple of hundred years. It is also the author's
position that man started affecting the climate as much as 8000
years ago, through agricultural changes. The evidence is
suggestive rather than conclusive, but he brings an interesting
range of evidence to the discussion.


It's possible, I suppose, that in 1990 we were at the absolue optimum
temperature and since then it's been worse for humans as it's gotten a
little hotter. But that seems like an awfully big coincidence. Isn't
it just as likely that if things get a little warmer, the growing
season is longer, so there's more food and fewer people are hungry,
people use less oil to keep warm in the winter, you can live at a
higher lattitude - that all that would all be a good thing?

IMO it is impossible to say with certainty. And even if a little
warmer (say 1 F) would be better on the whole, would a lot
warmer (say 5 F) be even better? From what we know now,
5 F is well within the range of possibility if we don't act. If the
warming shuts down the thermohaline circulation in the Atlantic
it may cause bigger problems. We know that the climate of
the late 20th century was reasonably conducive. We don't
know how a warmer climate will affect things. IMO it is a
dangerous experiment to run.

Cheers,
Russell

In article ,
Richard Riley wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:33:41 GMT, "Roald B. Larsen"
wrote:

:
:"Roger Coppock" skrev i melding
groups.com...
: China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.
:
:
:That is right.
:Winter will always bring some cold spells, even
:farther to the south than expected.
:
:The real news is the warm spells that can now
:be experienced in the far north even in winter!
:And the general raise in median temperatures.
:
:Just to put the weather report from China in perspective:
:Yesterday the northern part of Norway saw the warmest
:January day since temperature measurements started 150
:years ago. Svalbard (in some countries called Spitzbergen),
:which is situated on 78 degrees North, is in for temps. of
:around 3 degrees Celsius tomorrow! There is no wonder
:why December brought a new record minimum for extent
f Arctic sea ice:
:
:http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/n_plot.html
:
:Those AGW-deniers does not know the difference
:between weather and climate, and few of them will
:ever be willing to learn, it seems.

A quick question for you.

I'll assume that GW is real, and that it's entirely man made.

Are you SURE it's a bad thing? Absolutely sure?

The odds are it will be, and it's better to be safe than sorry. Why take the
chance and experiment with our one and only planet? It's not like we can
leave if the outcome is bad.


Are we already above the optimum global climate temperature? I mean,
if you take all human activites into account, everything from growing
crops to sunbathing on the beach, would we be better off with a colder
overall climate temperature? Because I've read accounts of the little
ice age, and it sounded awful.
GW will also bring rainfall changes, more and more intense storms, and coastal
flooding.



It's possible, I suppose, that in 1990 we were at the absolue optimum
temperature and since then it's been worse for humans as it's gotten a
little hotter. But that seems like an awfully big coincidence. Isn't
it just as likely that if things get a little warmer, the growing
season is longer, so there's more food and fewer people are hungry,
people use less oil to keep warm in the winter, you can live at a
higher lattitude - that all that would all be a good thing?

OK, how many of the billions that get displaced by rising sea levels are you
going to take in?

The real news is the warm spells that can now
be experienced in the far north even in winter!
And the general raise in median temperatures.

Hahahahahahah.. It gets warm every summer when the earth gets closer to the
sun.

You don't expect us to believe your Global Warming Claptrap do you? Filthy
Treasonous Liberals.

Global Warming is a Criminal Communist conspiracy to destroy Capitalism,
Destroy the American Empire and establish a Communist one world government
headed by the U.N. with Lucifer at it's healm.

But your original post claimed
"There is nothing cool on this planet!"
Well, China is at the moment.
And one warmest year on record is not global warming.

"Roger Coppock" wrote in message
oups.com...
China isn't the globe. One winter storm is not climate.