Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

Expert: Warming Climate Fuels Mega-Fires
Scott Pelley Reports From The American West's Fire Lines On The Rising
Number Of Mega-Fires
Oct 21, 2007 CBS News

[ . . . ]

The severity of the burning and size of the fires caught the eye of
Tom Swetnam, one of the world's leading fire ecologists. He wanted to
know what's touched off this annual inferno and whether it's truly a
historic change.

At the University of Arizona, Swetnam keeps a remarkable woodpile,
comprised of the largest collection of tree rings in the world. His
rings go back 9,000 years, and each one of those rings captures one
year of climate history.

Swetnam found recent decades have been the hottest in 1,000 years. And
recently, he and a team of top climate scientists discovered something
else: a dramatic increase in fires high in the mountains, where fires
were rare.

"As the spring is arriving earlier because of warming conditions, the
snow on these high mountain areas is melting and running off. So the
logs and the branches and the tree needles all can dry out more
quickly and have a longer time period to be dry. And so there's a
longer time period and opportunity for fires to start," Swetnam says

"The spring comes earlier, so the fire season is just longer," Pelley
remarks.

"That's right. The fire season in the last 15 years or so has
increased more than two months over the whole Western U.S. So actually
78 days of average longer fire season in the last 15 years compared to
the previous 15 or 20 years," Swetnam says.

Swetnam says that climate change -- global warming -- has increased
temperatures in the West about one degree and that has caused four
times more fires. Swetnam and his colleagues published those findings
in the journal "Science," and the world's leading researchers on
climate change have endorsed their conclusions.

[ . . . ]

"We used to have forest soil here that might have been this deep," he
says, indicating about a foot of depth, "but now we're just down to
rock."

"So you're down to mineral and sort of a rock, sort of armored soil.
And that is not a good habitat for trees to re-establish," Swetnam
says.

"Where do you think all this is headed?" Pelley asks,

"As fires continue to burn, these mega-fires continue to burn, we may
see ultimately a majority, maybe more than half of the forest land
converting to other forest, other types of ecosystems," Swetnam says.

"Wait a minute. Did you just say that there's a reasonable chance we
could lose half of the forests in the West?" Pelley asks.

"Yes, within some decades to a century, as warming continues, and we
continue to get large scale fires," Swetnam replies.

Swetnam says that this is what we have to look forward to. He
estimates, in the Southwest alone, nearly two million acres of forest
are gone and won't come back for centuries. The hotshots are already
planning for the next fire season. In 2006, the feds spent $2 billion
on fire fighting, seven times more than just ten years ago.

"You know, there are a lot of people who don't believe in climate
change," Pelley remarks.

"You won't find them on the fire line in the American West anymore,"
Tom Boatner says. "'Cause we've had climate change beat into us over
the last ten or fifteen years. We know what we're seeing, and we're
dealing with a period of climate, in terms of temperature and humidity
and drought that's different than anything people have seen in our
lifetimes."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3380176.shtml

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

Roger Coppock wrote:

Expert: Warming Climate Fuels Mega-Fires
Scott Pelley Reports From The American West's
Fire Lines On The Rising Number Of Mega-Fires
Oct 21, 2007 CBS News

[ . . . ]

The severity of the burning and size of the
fires caught the eye of Tom Swetnam, one of the
world's leading fire ecologists. He wanted to
know what's touched off this annual inferno and
whether it's truly a historic change.

At the University of Arizona, Swetnam keeps a
remarkable woodpile, comprised of the largest
collection of tree rings in the world. His rings
go back 9,000 years, and each one of those rings
captures one year of climate history.

Swetnam found recent decades have been the
hottest in 1,000 years. And recently, he and a
team of top climate scientists discovered
something else: a dramatic increase in fires
high in the mountains, where fires were rare.

"As the spring is arriving earlier because of
warming conditions, the snow on these high
mountain areas is melting and running off. So
the logs and the branches and the tree needles
all can dry out more quickly and have a longer
time period to be dry. And so there's a longer
time period and opportunity for fires to start,"
Swetnam says

"The spring comes earlier, so the fire season is
just longer," Pelley remarks.

"That's right. The fire season in the last 15
years or so has increased more than two months
over the whole Western U.S. So actually 78 days
of average longer fire season in the last 15
years compared to the previous 15 or 20 years,"
Swetnam says.

Swetnam says that climate change -- global
warming -- has increased temperatures in the
West about one degree and that has caused four
times more fires. Swetnam and his colleagues
published those findings in the journal
"Science," and the world's leading researchers
on climate change have endorsed their
conclusions.

[ . . . ]

"We used to have forest soil here that might
have been this deep," he says, indicating about
a foot of depth, "but now we're just down to
rock."

"So you're down to mineral and sort of a rock,
sort of armored soil. And that is not a good
habitat for trees to re-establish," Swetnam
says.

"Where do you think all this is headed?" Pelley
asks,

"As fires continue to burn, these mega-fires
continue to burn, we may see ultimately a
majority, maybe more than half of the forest
land converting to other forest, other types of
ecosystems," Swetnam says.

"Wait a minute. Did you just say that there's a
reasonable chance we could lose half of the
forests in the West?" Pelley asks.

"Yes, within some decades to a century, as
warming continues, and we continue to get large
scale fires," Swetnam replies.

Swetnam says that this is what we have to look
forward to. He estimates, in the Southwest
alone, nearly two million acres of forest are
gone and won't come back for centuries. The
hotshots are already planning for the next fire
season. In 2006, the feds spent $2 billion on
fire fighting, seven times more than just ten
years ago.

"You know, there are a lot of people who don't
believe in climate change," Pelley remarks.

"You won't find them on the fire line in the
American West anymore," Tom Boatner says.
"'Cause we've had climate change beat into us
over the last ten or fifteen years. We know what
we're seeing, and we're dealing with a period of
climate, in terms of temperature and humidity
and drought that's different than anything
people have seen in our lifetimes."


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3380176.shtml

Roger, you are not being very fair and balanced
are you. You forgot to mention two things. You
forgot to mention the benefits of warming and you
failed to address the horrors of what a cooling
climate could bring. You also, as always, rule
out climate change as being a natural process and
instead insist all warming is AGW.

On Saturday October 13, 2007 1:43:53 pm, Roger
Coppock Wrote:

"Nothing in global warming theory predicts an
apocalypse. That's not even a good strawman
argument."

If the AGWers want something new to worry about,
they can worry about Global Cooling instead - or
also.

Following is an article by Josie Glausiusz which
appears in the October, 2007 issue of "Discover
Magazine"


"A COLD LOOK AT WAR

THE STUDY "Climate Change and War Frequency in
Eastern China Over the Last Millennium," by David
Zhang et al., published in the August 2007 issue
of Human Ecology.

THE MOTIVE In a study of more than 900 years of
conflict in eastern China, a team of researchers
has tested the hypothesis that cold spells fuel
the social instability that leads to war.

THE METHODS Earth scientist David Zhang of the
University of Hong Kong and his colleagues
consulted a multivolume compendium, "The
Tabulation of Wars in Ancient China", which
records wars in China between 800 B.C. and A.D.
1911.**They*focused*on*the*899*wars*that*took
place between the years 1000 and 1911 in densely
populated eastern China.
**The*researchers*then*compared*the*historical
record with climate data for the same period.**In
the past decade, paleoclimatologists have
reconstructed a record of climate change over the
millennium by consulting historical documents and
examining indicators of temperature change like
tree rings, as well as oxygen isotopes in ice
cores and coral skeletons.**By*combining*data
from multiple studies, Zhang and his colleagues
identified six major cycles of warm and cold
phases from 1000 to 1911. The team then tabulated
the frequency of wars and grouped them into three
classes: very high (more than 30 wars per
decade), high (15 to 30 wars per decade), and low
(fewer than 15 wars per decade.)**All*four
decades of "very high" warfare, as well as most
periods of "high" conflict, coincided with cold
phases.**The*link*was*most*pronounced*in*the
south, perhaps because of its greater population
density as well as southern migration due to the
cold.
**Two*especially*frigid*periods*(1448-1487)*and
(1583-1717) stand out.**During*the*first*period,
many regions of china suffered huge famines, and
authorities of the Ming dynasty quashed
rebellions in numerous provinces.**At*the
beginning of the second cold era, heavy rains and
sever floods devastated agricultural production,
and during the subsequent famine people were
forced to eat tree bark and even seeds from the
excrement of wild geese.**Later,*between*1620*and
1640, earth's temperature fell to its lowest
point since the beginning of the millennium.**In*
china, major floods followed extreme droughts, and
frequent famines led to mass starvation and
death.**In*1644,*a*peasand*rebel*leader*marched
into the capital and captured Beijing,**Finally,
a Manchu invasion ended the Ming regime.

THE MEANING During warm periods, Zhang explains,
populations increased, but the conditions brought
on by cold phases--shorter growing seasons, less
land available for cultivation, a shortage of
forage for domestic animals, and lower
agriculture yields--could not sustain them.**The
shortages fueled peasant unrest, which
destabilized regimes.**Nearly*all*China's
dynastic changes too place during the cold
spells.
**Zhang*believes*his*work*has*relevance*for*a
warming world.**Global*temperatures*are*expected
to rise faster and faster in the future, and our
expanded population may be unable to adapt to the
ecological changes.**"Animals*can*adapt*to
climate change, mainly by relying on migration,
depopulation--which consists of starvation and
cannibalism--and dietary change," he explains.
"Human beings have more adaptive choices and
social mechanisms, such as birth control, trade,
and scientific innovation.**Some*of*these*social
mechanisms are good for humanity and some are
bad, such as war.**The*war*is*just*like*the
cannibalism of animals." "

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

"Roger Coppock" wrote
"That's right. The fire season in the last 15 years or so has
increased more than two months over the whole Western U.S. So actually
78 days of average longer fire season in the last 15 years compared to
the previous 15 or 20 years," Swetnam says.

This is entirely consistant with the observation that first frosts and
last thaw times that bracket the winter months have also become respectively
delayed by a month and advanced by a month as the continent warms.

There are a variety of alternate markers that tell exactly the same story
world wide.

It also is entirely consistant with my memory of when the winter months
started and ended 40 years ago, compared to where they start and end now.

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

On Oct 21, 10:36 pm, "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"
wrote:
[ . . . ]
There are a variety of alternate markers that tell
exactly the same story world wide.

It also is entirely consistant with my memory of when
the winter months started and ended 40 years ago, compared
to where they start and end now.

Thank you, whoever you are.
It's nice to have someone on this forum who
knows the difference between weather and climate.

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

woger wrote:

Thank you, whoever you are.
It's nice to have someone on this forum who
knows the difference between weather and climate.

Everybody knows the weather changes more often
than the climate.

But you are one person who should have seen that
the statistical expectation of the annual global average
temperature should have shown a rise in those areas,
and only those areas where the temperature goes up and
through the freezing point of water.
Because of the latent heat of fusion, the frequency
of low day of year records has to be less than the high
day of year records, causing the anomalies to occur
more frequently with a plus sign.

But that false impression about warming has reached
a point where more rise is not likely, the silly averaging should
show a slow cooling back toward the baseline.

And the global warmers will gradually fade away,
hearing the chuckles of those who were not so gullible.

The Whatafool statistical expectation of a warming
aberration seems to parallel the IPCC predictions;

Warming, most evident in areas that go above and
below zero C,

A rapid rise over 30 or 40 years, then a slow decline,

Little or no effect in the tropics,

Not evident in all time record highs, few if any recently,

just a big global illusion interpreted by dummies as
a meaningful global change,

Maybe your son can explain it to you.

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

On Oct 22, 4:09 am, Roger Coppock wrote:
On Oct 21, 10:36 pm, "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"Just...@ExecuteTheBushTrai tor.com wrote:

[ . . . ]

There are a variety of alternate markers that tell
exactly the same story world wide.

It also is entirely consistant with my memory of when
the winter months started and ended 40 years ago, compared
to where they start and end now.

Thank you, whoever you are.

AHAHAHA.. Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian
aka VD Scotty Scuttled his Nutts as he advocates to
"HangEveryRepubliKKKan".
Here's some beef on this possibly tax-evading US expatriate,
"Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian aka VD Scotty aka
"HangEveryRepubliKKKan"
continues to Scuttle his Nutts as he goes into overkill after he did
"ExterminateAllRepubliKKKans"
in his hope to "exterminate the American State" which is after
VD Scotty for taxes VD Scotty ows to the IRS from when VD
Scotty went bankrupt and fled across the border into Canada.
Isn't that the source/cause of your intense unhappiness, Scotty?

[VD Scotty's global views]
"hanson" wrote Absolutely Nothing... Meanwhile as the
Globe Contines to warm, [VD Scotty gets
scared ****less over the weather and laments that] George
Bush forgets which country he's in... [which is very important to
VD Scotty who said "Here I am, a brain the size of a planet"]

[hanson]
.... ahahaha... ahahahaha...VD you must refer to your
Hydrocephalus by your "brain the size of a planet"
that harbors your "warped and tiny mind"... ahahaha..

VD say he has a warped, tiny mind:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...08cb5aac9bc0?h...

They said: "Scuttle Nutts, **** off Moron":

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...181bb55b07fb26...

and more fun from Scuttle Nutts:

"Harley" wrote in message

. com...
Harry Reed on CNN just announced Bin Laden claims to have
5 nukes, and he said his number one target was Montreal
Canada.... I was shocked...shocked I tell you. -- Harley

[hanson]
AHAHAHA... So, UBL doesn't like the "warped, tiny mind"
of Scott Nudds aka Vendicar Decarian aka VD Scotty aka
"ExterminateAllRepubliKKKans"
& "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"
who lives near Montreal Canada and who had lovelingly posted:

::VD:: "I wish Osama BinLaden a happy 50th-ish birthday."

ahahaha.. Nuddley see, now the chicken are come'n home
to roost. You now have double trouble...(1) from your hated
AmeriKKKa which does not send your welfare check in time,
AND (2) from your beloved chief Ass-venter UBL who wants
to nuke your ass... ahahaha.... AHAHAHA.... ahahahaha...
See, Nuddley, what comes around goes around!... ahaha..

Scott Nudds Birthdays wishes to Osama Ben laden:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...714b09109934cb...

VD Scotty's Green Bible & its enviro Theology

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...ed6372eccc32ba

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

"Whata Fool" wrote in message
...
woger wrote:

Thank you, whoever you are.
It's nice to have someone on this forum who
knows the difference between weather and climate.

Everybody knows the weather changes more often
than the climate.

But you are one person who should have seen that
the statistical expectation of the annual global average
temperature should have shown a rise in those areas,
and only those areas where the temperature goes up and
through the freezing point of water.
Because of the latent heat of fusion, the frequency
of low day of year records has to be less than the high
day of year records, causing the anomalies to occur
more frequently with a plus sign.

But that false impression about warming has reached
a point where more rise is not likely, the silly averaging should
show a slow cooling back toward the baseline.

And the global warmers will gradually fade away,
hearing the chuckles of those who were not so gullible.

The Whatafool statistical expectation of a warming
aberration seems to parallel the IPCC predictions;

Warming, most evident in areas that go above and
below zero C,

A rapid rise over 30 or 40 years, then a slow decline,

Little or no effect in the tropics,

Not evident in all time record highs, few if any recently,

just a big global illusion interpreted by dummies as
a meaningful global change,

Maybe your son can explain it to you.

You sure do make up some funny stuff! lol

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

"Bawana" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 22, 4:09 am, Roger Coppock wrote:
On Oct 21, 10:36 pm,
"HangEveryRepubliKKKan"Just...@ExecuteTheBushTrai tor.com wrote:

[ . . . ]

There are a variety of alternate markers that tell
exactly the same story world wide.

It also is entirely consistant with my memory of when
the winter months started and ended 40 years ago, compared
to where they start and end now.

Thank you, whoever you are.

Pathetic irrelevant blabbering snipped.

Dang, there's nothing left!

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

Roger Coppock wrote:
Expert: Warming Climate Fuels Mega-Fires
Scott Pelley Reports From The American West's Fire Lines On The Rising
Number Of Mega-Fires
Oct 21, 2007 CBS News

[ . . . ]

The severity of the burning and size of the fires caught the eye of
Tom Swetnam, one of the world's leading fire ecologists. He wanted to
know what's touched off this annual inferno and whether it's truly a
historic change.

At the University of Arizona, Swetnam keeps a remarkable woodpile,
comprised of the largest collection of tree rings in the world. His
rings go back 9,000 years, and each one of those rings captures one
year of climate history.

Swetnam found recent decades have been the hottest in 1,000 years...

Were tree rings used to determine the temperature for the past 1,000
years? If so, how is that done?

Fossil Fool Fluff-heads Don't Fight Fires!
 

"Peter Franks" wrote in message
...
Roger Coppock wrote:
Expert: Warming Climate Fuels Mega-Fires
Scott Pelley Reports From The American West's Fire Lines On The Rising
Number Of Mega-Fires
Oct 21, 2007 CBS News

[ . . . ]

The severity of the burning and size of the fires caught the eye of
Tom Swetnam, one of the world's leading fire ecologists. He wanted to
know what's touched off this annual inferno and whether it's truly a
historic change.

At the University of Arizona, Swetnam keeps a remarkable woodpile,
comprised of the largest collection of tree rings in the world. His
rings go back 9,000 years, and each one of those rings captures one
year of climate history.

Swetnam found recent decades have been the hottest in 1,000 years...

Were tree rings used to determine the temperature for the past 1,000
years? If so, how is that done?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&btnG =Search