Stronger evidence of global warming
by R. Ramachandran, in the Hindu Online Edition, Thursday, Feb 28,
2008

-- Area of glaciers reduced from 3,391 to 2,721 sq. km. between
1962-2004

-- By 2050, negative mass balance of glaciers will be 90 per cent

Udhagamandalam: With more recent data on the Himalayan glaciers from
the Indian Remote Sensing (IRS) satellites, scientists of the Space
Applications Centre (SAC) of the Indian Space Research Organisaation
(ISRO) at Ahmedabad now have much stronger evidence of the finger
print of global warming in the observed alarming retreat of these
glaciers.

The new results were presented at the ongoing National Space Science
Symposium (NSSS-2008) here by Dr. Anil V. Kulkarni of SAC.

In 2004 Dr. Kulkarni and his colleagues investigated the spatial
extent of 466 glaciers in the basins of Chenab, Parbati and Baspa
using remote sensed data and compared them with the 1962 topographic
data of the Survey of India.

They found an overall reduction of 21 per cent in the glacial surface
area. They had also found that the process of deglaciation had led to
the fragmentation of large glaciers resulting in the reduction in the
mean surface area of glacial extent from 1 sq. km. to 0.32 sq. km.
during 1962-2004.

The new data pertains to two additional basins of Warwan and Bhut
comprising 253 and 189 glaciers respectively. Together with the
earlier data on 466 glaciers, the cumulative area of these 908
Himalayan glaciers has been found to have reduced from 3391 sq. km. to
2721 sq. km., implying a total area reduction of 20 per cent.

Another new finding is that the snow line -- altitude above which there
is no snowmelt had significantly increased in the Himalayan basins
since 1970. Snow line essentially is the line of zero mass balance,
where snow accumulation equals ablation or melting. For example,
studying 30 glaciers in the Baspa basin, the scientists found that the
snow line had increased from 4900 m in 1970 to 5300 m in 2006.

More quantitatively, the scientists found that the percentage area of
the 30 glaciers below the snow line was only 25 per cent between up to
1990. This means that only 25 per cent of the glacial area had
negative mass balance. In 2006, this fraction increased to 70 per
cent. The scientists predict that by 2050, this fraction would be a
high 90 per cent.

One of the significant changes due to warming that Dr. Kulkarni and
his associates had seen even in the earlier work was that the winter
run off had increased by as much as 75 per cent between 1966 and 1995.
Now they have more quantitative glacier-wise data, which shows the
snow accumulation having a wavelike pattern, instead of a flat profile
of accumulated snow during peak winter.

Snowfalls

This shows that between snow storms or heavy snow falls the warming is
resulting in significant melt. So, even the episodes of heavy
snowfalls in the north during the most recent winter should not be
taken to imply that warming has not significantly affected the
Himalayan snow and glacier formation, Dr. Kulkarni said. Far less
accumulation is occurring in glaciers today than before and this is a
clear imprint of warming, he added.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/28/stor...2854281200.htm

"Roger Coppock" wrote in message
...
Stronger evidence of global warming
by R. Ramachandran, in the Hindu Online Edition, Thursday, Feb 28,
2008

-- Area of glaciers reduced from 3,391 to 2,721 sq. km. between
1962-2004

Which means nothing. Climate change doesn't stop Roger. Are the Himalayas
the entire globe now?

On 28/02/08 5:08, in article ,
"James" wrote:

Which means nothing. Climate change doesn't stop Roger. Are the Himalayas
the entire globe now?

The same is true for the United States.

The glaciers are losing ice mass world wide

(eg. http://faculty.washington.edu/scport...rglaciers.html)

In fact, in part is expected, but the question is how much is
beyond the expected?

But there is no denying the ice mass loss in the world's glaciers.
Or that the sea ice melt in the Northern Hemisphere has changed
the character of the ice (old vs. new) or that ice mass loss
is occurring in Greenland and Western Antactica.

"James" wrote
Which means nothing. Climate change doesn't stop Roger. Are the Himalayas
the entire globe now?

The same pattern of melting is observed globally.

This study is just another fact for the Denialists to ignore, bringing them
one step closer to the gallows.

On Feb 27, 10:26*pm, Roger Coppock wrote:
Stronger evidence of global warming
by R. Ramachandran, in the Hindu Online Edition, Thursday, Feb 28,
2008

-- Area of glaciers reduced from 3,391 to 2,721 sq. km. between
1962-2004

-- By 2050, negative mass balance of glaciers will be 90 per cent

Udhagamandalam: With more recent data on the Himalayan glaciers from
the Indian Remote Sensing (IRS) satellites, scientists of the Space
Applications Centre (SAC) of the Indian Space Research Organisaation
(ISRO) at Ahmedabad now have much stronger evidence of the finger
print of global warming in the observed alarming retreat of these
glaciers.

The new results were presented at the ongoing National Space Science
Symposium (NSSS-2008) here by Dr. Anil V. Kulkarni of SAC.

In 2004 Dr. Kulkarni and his colleagues investigated the spatial
extent of 466 glaciers in the basins of Chenab, Parbati and Baspa
using remote sensed data and compared them with the 1962 topographic
data of the Survey of India.

They found an overall reduction of 21 per cent in the glacial surface
area. They had also found that the process of deglaciation had led to
the fragmentation of large glaciers resulting in the reduction in the
mean surface area of glacial extent from 1 sq. km. to 0.32 sq. km.
during 1962-2004.

The new data pertains to two additional basins of Warwan and Bhut
comprising 253 and 189 glaciers respectively. Together with the
earlier data on 466 glaciers, the cumulative area of these 908
Himalayan glaciers has been found to have reduced from 3391 sq. km. to
2721 sq. km., implying a total area reduction of 20 per cent.

Another new finding is that the snow line -- altitude above which there
is no snowmelt had significantly increased in the Himalayan basins
since 1970. Snow line essentially is the line of zero mass balance,
where snow accumulation equals ablation or melting. For example,
studying 30 glaciers in the Baspa basin, the scientists found that the
snow line had increased from 4900 m in 1970 to 5300 m in 2006.

More quantitatively, the scientists found that the percentage area of
the 30 glaciers below the snow line was only 25 per cent between up to
1990. This means that only 25 per cent of the glacial area had
negative mass balance. In 2006, this fraction increased to 70 per
cent. The scientists predict that by 2050, this fraction would be a
high 90 per cent.

One of the significant changes due to warming that Dr. Kulkarni and
his associates had seen even in the earlier work was that the winter
run off had increased by as much as 75 per cent between 1966 and 1995.
Now they have more quantitative glacier-wise data, which shows the
snow accumulation having a wavelike pattern, instead of a flat profile
of accumulated snow during peak winter.

Snowfalls

This shows that between snow storms or heavy snow falls the warming is
resulting in significant melt. So, even the episodes of heavy
snowfalls in the north during the most recent winter should not be
taken to imply that warming has not significantly affected the
Himalayan snow and glacier formation, Dr. Kulkarni said. Far less
accumulation is occurring in glaciers today than before and this is a
clear imprint of warming, he added.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/28/stor...2854281200.htm

Reply: Yah?? So?? Welcome to Earth.. where climate has been
changing for hundreds and thousands of millions of years.... sometimes
quite rapidly. Get used to it and adapt, as our ancestors did for the
last ice age and subsequent warming. They survived.
And it might be possible that we are headed for Global Cooling
now. (And that will be our fault too.... won't it??)

"Cato" wrote
Welcome to Earth.. where climate has been
changing for hundreds and thousands of millions of years.

Cato engages in GW Denialist Fraud Type 2

Fraud type 2
Global warming and natural climate change in the past

What the science says...

It's a well established fact that climate changes naturally and sometimes
dramatically. The pertinent question isn't "has climate changed in the
past?" (of course it has) but "what is causing global warming now?" To begin
to answer that, it's helpful to look at the major causes of natural climate
change in the past.

Solar activity
Solar variations have been the major driver of climate change over the past
10,000 years. When sunspot activity was low during the Maunder Minimum in
the 1600's or the Dalton Minimum in the 1800's, the earth went through
'Little Ice Ages'. Similarly, solar activity was higher during the Medieval
Warm Period.

However, the correlation between solar activity and global temperatures
ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures started rising while solar
activity stayed level. This led a team of scientists from Finland and
Germany to conclude "during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance,
solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant
secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have
another source." More on the sun & global warming...

Milankovitch cycles
Earth's climate undergoes 120,000 year cycles of ice ages broken by short
warm periods called interglacials. The cycle is driven by Milankovitch
cycles. Long term changes in the Earth's orbit trigger an initial warming
which warms the oceans and melts ice sheets - this releases CO2. The extra
CO2 in the atmosphere causes further warming leading to interglacials ending
the ice ages.



For the past 12,000 years, we've been in an interglacial. The current trend
of the Milankovitch cycle is a gradual cooling down towards an ice age.

Volcanoes
Volcanic eruptions spew sulfate aerosols into the atmosphere which has a
cooling effect on global temperatures. These aerosols reflect incoming
sunlight, causing a 'global dimming' effect. Usually, the cooling effect
lasts several years until the aerosols are washed out of the atmosphere. In
the case of large eruptions or a succession of eruptions such as in the
early 1800's, the cooling effect can last several decades. Strong volcanic
activity exacerbated the Little Ice Age in the 1800's.

The usual suspects in natural climate change - solar variations, volcanoes,
Milankovitch cycles - are all conspicuous in their absence over the past 3
decades of warming. This doesn't mean by itself that CO2 is the main cause
of current global warming - you don't prove anthropogenic warming by
eliminating all other options. But the causes of the commonly cited climate
changes in the past are understood and have played little to no part in the
current warming trend.

On Feb 28, 3:26 am, Roger Coppock wrote:
Stronger evidence of global warming
by R. Ramachandran, in the Hindu Online Edition, Thursday, Feb 28,
2008

-- Area of glaciers reduced from 3,391 to 2,721 sq. km. between
1962-2004

-- By 2050, negative mass balance of glaciers will be 90 per cent

Udhagamandalam: With more recent data on the Himalayan glaciers from
the Indian Remote Sensing (IRS) satellites, scientists of the Space
Applications Centre (SAC) of the Indian Space Research Organisaation
(ISRO) at Ahmedabad now have much stronger evidence of the finger
print of global warming in the observed alarming retreat of these
glaciers.

The new results were presented at the ongoing National Space Science
Symposium (NSSS-2008) here by Dr. Anil V. Kulkarni of SAC.

In 2004 Dr. Kulkarni and his colleagues investigated the spatial
extent of 466 glaciers in the basins of Chenab, Parbati and Baspa
using remote sensed data and compared them with the 1962 topographic
data of the Survey of India.

They found an overall reduction of 21 per cent in the glacial surface
area. They had also found that the process of deglaciation had led to
the fragmentation of large glaciers resulting in the reduction in the
mean surface area of glacial extent from 1 sq. km. to 0.32 sq. km.
during 1962-2004.

The new data pertains to two additional basins of Warwan and Bhut
comprising 253 and 189 glaciers respectively. Together with the
earlier data on 466 glaciers, the cumulative area of these 908
Himalayan glaciers has been found to have reduced from 3391 sq. km. to
2721 sq. km., implying a total area reduction of 20 per cent.

Another new finding is that the snow line -- altitude above which there
is no snowmelt had significantly increased in the Himalayan basins
since 1970. Snow line essentially is the line of zero mass balance,
where snow accumulation equals ablation or melting. For example,
studying 30 glaciers in the Baspa basin, the scientists found that the
snow line had increased from 4900 m in 1970 to 5300 m in 2006.

More quantitatively, the scientists found that the percentage area of
the 30 glaciers below the snow line was only 25 per cent between up to
1990. This means that only 25 per cent of the glacial area had
negative mass balance. In 2006, this fraction increased to 70 per
cent. The scientists predict that by 2050, this fraction would be a
high 90 per cent.

One of the significant changes due to warming that Dr. Kulkarni and
his associates had seen even in the earlier work was that the winter
run off had increased by as much as 75 per cent between 1966 and 1995.
Now they have more quantitative glacier-wise data, which shows the
snow accumulation having a wavelike pattern, instead of a flat profile
of accumulated snow during peak winter.

Snowfalls

This shows that between snow storms or heavy snow falls the warming is
resulting in significant melt. So, even the episodes of heavy
snowfalls in the north during the most recent winter should not be
taken to imply that warming has not significantly affected the
Himalayan snow and glacier formation, Dr. Kulkarni said. Far less
accumulation is occurring in glaciers today than before and this is a
clear imprint of warming, he added.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/28/stor...2854281200.htm

Roger this is OLD evidence.How can it be stronger?

On Feb 27, 10:26*pm, Roger Coppock wrote:
Stronger evidence of global warming
by R. Ramachandran, in the Hindu Online Edition, Thursday, Feb 28,
2008

Insert obligatory remarks about "not a refereed scientific journal."

-- Area of glaciers reduced from 3,391 to 2,721 sq. km. between
1962-2004
[snips]

Very good. Now what happened to those same glaciers between
1910 and 1950?
Socks