Oceans Have Not Warmed At All
 

On 20/03/08 0:50, in article , "0B0ZN"
wrote:

Oceans Have Not Warmed At All

Richard Harris

The article shows how a journalist can screw up


It is, of course well known that not only is the heat capacity of water high
but that oceans, below 1000 meters cold 4°C. La Nina is cold because of a
upward moving of cold water. So as global warming proceeds the air warms
faster than the ocean

Global warming is measured using a Land-Ocean index
(see http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.lrg.gif)
and if you want to see the Land-Ocean difference look at graph
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A4.lrg.gif

Morning Edition, March 19, 2008 · Some 3,000 scientific robots that are
plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving
instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the
past four or five years.

Clearly a misleading statement because of the La Nina upswelling.
Also the last 20 years have shown a 0.3 increase. However, for any
particular 2 year change, like 1998-2000 the sea temperatures
dropped 0.2°C. That was due
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/ana.../ensoyears.sht
ml

to a 2 year persistent La Nina during which the temperature anomalies
remained exceptionally negative. Right now and since September we are
in a negative La Nina which hit a current high of -1.5 in last period
(January)--this is likely to persist for at least a few more months

That could mean global warming has taken a
breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what
their robots are telling them.

That was a dumb comment.

In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up
ocean waters.

Eventually, but the main drive of global warming is not from the ocean,
it is from the forcings of the green house cases, that is a study source
of extra energy being absorbed. It is like a pan of water, heated
from the top but only on a small area, convection will occur and the colder
water from below will circulate.

The water at the bottom of the ocean is at 4°C--it will moderate the
temperature increase for a while.

It can change


"The climate of the Cretaceous was radically different than any climate that
has occurred since. For one thing, there were no freezing temperatures -- at
the poles, during the winter, anywhere, anytime (except, of course, at high
elevations). Ocean bottom water, which now is a uniform 4°C (39°F), ran
close to 17°C (63°F), because there were no polar ice caps to replenish the
cold bottom water. Many tropical and some temperate plants today are totally
intolerant of frost; freezing temperatures, even for only an hour in the
middle of the night, can kill them totally. A number of such plants are
survivors from the Cretaceous Period, and were found in high paleolatitudes
that today would mean instant death. Alligators lived in such a subtropical
flora at a paleolatitude of around 70°, roughly where Greenland sits today.

Global warming, caused by an increase in greenhouse gases, could conceivably
elevate temperatures enough to produce subtropical climates at 70° latitude,
but the same warming would elevate temperatures at the equator to such a
temperature that little or no life could endure."

The good news is that evaporation limits maximum ocean warming to about
32°C, enough evaporates to keep the ocean temperatures from going higher.

Oceans Have Not Warmed At All
 

In article ,
Earl Evleth wrote:
On 20/03/08 0:50, in article , "0B0ZN"
wrote:

Oceans Have Not Warmed At All

Richard Harris

The article shows how a journalist can screw up


It is, of course well known that not only is the heat capacity of water high
but that oceans, below 1000 meters cold 4°C.

The deep ocean is -1 to +1 C. It is only fresh water that has a
density maximum at 4 C, and the oceans are not fresh. (This is also
why you can see -1 in the deep ocean -- salt water has a lower
freezing point than fresh. Typical ocean water has a freezing point
of about -1.8 C.)

[trim]

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Oceans Have Not Warmed At All
 

On 20/03/08 13:54, in article , "Robert
Grumbine" wrote:

The deep ocean is -1 to +1 C. It is only fresh water that has a
density maximum at 4 C, and the oceans are not fresh. (This is also
why you can see -1 in the deep ocean -- salt water has a lower
freezing point than fresh. Typical ocean water has a freezing point
of about -1.8 C.)


I stand corrected, the profile I was using is at
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin...ater/temp.html

Oceans Have Not Warmed At All
 

In article ,
Earl Evleth wrote:
On 20/03/08 13:54, in article , "Robert
Grumbine" wrote:

The deep ocean is -1 to +1 C. It is only fresh water that has a
density maximum at 4 C, and the oceans are not fresh. (This is also
why you can see -1 in the deep ocean -- salt water has a lower
freezing point than fresh. Typical ocean water has a freezing point
of about -1.8 C.)

I stand corrected, the profile I was using is at
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin...ater/temp.html

Even the profile shows temperatures below 4, though only in the lowest
1000 m or so. But the text is fair:
"
The Sun hits the surface layer of the ocean, heating the water up. Wind
and waves mix this layer up from top to bottom, so the heat gets mixed
downward too. The temperature of the surface waters varies mainly with
latitude. The polar seas (high latitude) can be as cold as -2 degrees
Celsius (28.4 degrees Fahrenheit) while the Persian Gulf (low latitude)
can be as warm as 36 degrees Celsius (96.8 degrees Fahrenheit). Ocean
water, with an average salinity of 35 psu, freezes at -1.94 degrees
Celsius (28.5 degrees Fahrenheit). That means at high latitudes sea ice
can form. The average temperature of the ocean surface waters is about
17 degrees Celsius (62.6 degrees Fahrenheit).

90 % of the total volume of ocean is found below the thermocline in the
deep ocean. The deep ocean is not well mixed. The deep ocean is made up
of horizontal layers of equal density. Much of this deep ocean water is
between 0-3 degrees Celsius (32-37.5 degrees Fahrenheit)! It's really,
really cold down there!
"


The profile they show is warm. The average ocean temperature
(averaged over volume) is only 3.5 C.

One of these years, I'm going to make a global mean temperature
profile.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences