In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows that
the air near the surface is warming. For background on the satellite
temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m.../tltglhmam_5.4 The global
data are graphed he http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also shows
a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...nthly_MSU_AMSU
_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt The data from 82.5N to
70S are graphed he http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this example http://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

Anyway, the title 'Latest Satellite MSU Data Show Continued Warming' infers
that warming is continuing to occur, regardless of latitude. The fact that
RSS satellite measurements have detected a small but appreciable amount of
cooling over the last decade (there's that pesky linear trend thing again)
would indicate that the word 'continued warming' in the subject line is
deliberated misleading.

Of course, as a confirmed 'sceptic', Dawlish has probably already jumped in
here to describe Roger's description as 'spinning' the latest RSS figures.
Or maybe he hasn't ...

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)

On Apr 12, 3:47*pm, Falcon wrote:
In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows that
the air near the surface is warming. For background on the satellite
temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m...tglhmam_5.4The global
data are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also shows
a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...nthly_MSU_AMSU
_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt The data from 82.5N to
70S are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this example http://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

Anyway, the title 'Latest Satellite MSU Data Show Continued Warming' infers
that warming is continuing to occur, regardless of latitude. The fact that
RSS satellite measurements have detected a small but appreciable amount of
cooling over the last decade (there's that pesky linear trend thing again)
would indicate that the word 'continued warming' in the subject line is
deliberated misleading.

Of course, as a confirmed 'sceptic', Dawlish has probably already jumped in
here to describe Roger's description as 'spinning' the latest RSS figures..
Or maybe he hasn't ...

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again. He talks through a third party post. Have you figured yet,
spinner, that all killfiling does is allows someone to kick your arse
that sticks up a mile from your head, that's buried in that denier's
crack?

Even, this time, to the extent of accusing someone else of "spinning"
when that's all he ever does in this neswgroup and is how he earned
his nickname.

Confirmed idiots just never learn. laughing

When someone replies to this, you'll see spinner. Hope the boot
doesn't hurt too much, but it's all you deserve. *))

On Apr 12, 3:41*pm, Tom P wrote:
On 04/12/2011 09:45 AM, matt_sykes wrote:





On Apr 12, 1:39 am, Roger *wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations,
shows that the air near the surface is warming.
For background on the satellite temperature proxy please see:http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Satell...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records
from the University of Alabama at Huntsville.http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m.../tltglhmam_5.4
The global data are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also
shows a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.http://www..remss.com/data/msu/month...onthly_MSU_AMS...
The data from 82.5N to 70S are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

Roger, its not 'continued warming'. *Warming stopped. *Sticking a red
line on a scatter plot does not mean its still warming.

Its clear fro the graph that its currently as warm as 1980. *How is
that continued?

If you pick and choose the numbers, you can get anything you like.
Obviously you prefer your version.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dont prefer anything (actually, a bit warmer might be quite
pleasant) . I just want the truth.

On Apr 12, 5:13*pm, Dawlish wrote:
On Apr 12, 3:47*pm, Falcon wrote:





In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows that
the air near the surface is warming. For background on the satellite
temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m...m_5.4Theglobal
data are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also shows
a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...nthly_MSU_AMSU
_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt The data from 82.5N to
70S are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this example http://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

Anyway, the title 'Latest Satellite MSU Data Show Continued Warming' infers
that warming is continuing to occur, regardless of latitude. The fact that
RSS satellite measurements have detected a small but appreciable amount of
cooling over the last decade (there's that pesky linear trend thing again)
would indicate that the word 'continued warming' in the subject line is
deliberated misleading.

Of course, as a confirmed 'sceptic', Dawlish has probably already jumped in
here to describe Roger's description as 'spinning' the latest RSS figures.
Or maybe he hasn't ...

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again. He talks through a third party post. Have you figured yet,
spinner, that all killfiling does is allows someone to kick your arse
that sticks up a mile from your head, that's buried in that denier's
crack?

Even, this time, to the extent of accusing someone else of "spinning"
when that's all he ever does in this neswgroup and is how he earned
his nickname.

Confirmed idiots just never learn. laughing

When someone replies to this, you'll see spinner. Hope the boot
doesn't hurt too much, but it's all you deserve. *))- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgotten the Iodine supliments again janner?

On Apr 12, 7:47*am, Falcon wrote:
In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows that
the air near the surface is warming. For background on the satellite
temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m...tglhmam_5.4The global
data are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also shows
a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...nthly_MSU_AMSU
_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt The data from 82.5N to
70S are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this example http://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show.

Any and all linear tend lines are useless without at the very least
some information on the reliability of the slope calculated. No
confidence interval = no value.

Also the residuals need to be calculated to ensure that original data
are homoscedastic, or again the result is questionable.

The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

By taking a shorter time line, significance of any trend will be
lowered. It seems certain that the weak down-turn your graph shows
results from random fluctuations rather than any real change in the
rate of warming.

snip

On 04/12/2011 04:47 PM, Falcon wrote:
In , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows that
the air near the surface is warming. For background on the satellite
temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m.../tltglhmam_5.4 The global
data are graphed he http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also shows
a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...nthly_MSU_AMSU
_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt The data from 82.5N to
70S are graphed he http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this examplehttp://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.


Sure - if you think that leaving out 95% of the RSS data is
"representative". Using a 10-year data span, all you have to do is pick
the right El Nino peaks and troughs for your start and end-points, and
you can get any result you care for.

Anyway, the title 'Latest Satellite MSU Data Show Continued Warming' infers
that warming is continuing to occur, regardless of latitude. The fact that
RSS satellite measurements have detected a small but appreciable amount of
cooling over the last decade (there's that pesky linear trend thing again)
would indicate that the word 'continued warming' in the subject line is
deliberated misleading.

Of course, as a confirmed 'sceptic', Dawlish has probably already jumped in
here to describe Roger's description as 'spinning' the latest RSS figures.
Or maybe he hasn't ...

On 04/12/2011 05:44 PM, matt_sykes wrote:
On Apr 12, 3:41 pm, Tom wrote:
On 04/12/2011 09:45 AM, matt_sykes wrote:





On Apr 12, 1:39 am, Roger wrote:
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations,
shows that the air near the surface is warming.
For background on the satellite temperature proxy please see:http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Satell...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records
from the University of Alabama at Huntsville.http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m.../tltglhmam_5.4
The global data are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also
shows a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.http://www..remss.com/data/msu/month...onthly_MSU_AMS...
The data from 82.5N to 70S are graphed hehttp://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

Roger, its not 'continued warming'. Warming stopped. Sticking a red
line on a scatter plot does not mean its still warming.

Its clear fro the graph that its currently as warm as 1980. How is
that continued?

If you pick and choose the numbers, you can get anything you like.
Obviously you prefer your version.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dont prefer anything (actually, a bit warmer might be quite
pleasant) . I just want the truth.

Today it's colder here than it was yesterday. Does that prove anything?

In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 04:47 PM, Falcon wrote:
In , Tom P wrote...
[..]
The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this examplehttp://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

Sure - if you think that leaving out 95% of the RSS data is
"representative". Using a 10-year data span, all you have to do is pick
the right El Nino peaks and troughs for your start and end-points, and
you can get any result you care for.

95% of the data? That's a bit of an exaggeration, Tom, unless someone hired
a TARDIS and took the satellites all the way back in time to 1811. Anyway,
that sort of illustrates my point. The full 30 years record DOES show
warming of course - no-one suggests it hasn't - but the LATEST data does
not. I took the last ten years worth of data and it shows that the LATEST
satellite data does NOT show "continued warming". Therefore Roger's subject
line is deliberately misleading. Now why is that so hard to understand?

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)

On Apr 12, 9:42*am, Falcon wrote:
In article , Tom P wrote...

On 04/12/2011 04:47 PM, Falcon wrote:
In , Tom P wrote...
[..]
The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

It's also time-dependent. Roger's not the only one who can draw pretty
graphs, but in this examplehttp://i55.tinypic.com/iwrg35.png *you can see
how useful a linear trend line is, depending on what you want to show.. The
data is from Roger's thoughtfully provided source. I added another trend
line that's probably a little more representative of what's been happening
lately.

Sure - if you think that leaving out 95% of the RSS data is
"representative". Using a 10-year data span, all you have to do is pick
the right El Nino peaks and troughs for your start and end-points, and
you can get any result you care for.

95% of the data? That's a bit of an exaggeration, Tom, unless someone hired
a TARDIS and took the satellites all the way back in time to 1811. Anyway,
that sort of illustrates my point. The full 30 years record DOES show
warming of course - no-one suggests it hasn't - but the LATEST data does
not. I took the last ten years worth of data and it shows that the LATEST
satellite data does NOT show "continued warming".

As I point out in a post above, your data set shows nothing. The
scatter of points is too great to allow inference concerning any or no
time trend.

Therefore Roger's subject
line is deliberately misleading. Now why is that so hard to understand?

I agree that all that is certain from the satellite record is that
there has been warming over the last 20 years. Period.

On Apr 12, 6:38*am, Tom P wrote:
On 04/12/2011 01:39 AM, Roger Coppock wrote:





The satellite record, in all its current interpretations,
shows that the air near the surface is warming.
For background on the satellite temperature proxy please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satelli...e_measurements

The URL below is one of the more conservative records
from the University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/m.../tltglhmam_5.4
The global data are graphed he
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg

The Remote Sensing Systems Lower Troposphere (TLT) analysis also
shows a temperature rise above the surface of the land and sea.
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthl...onthly_MSU_AMS...
The data from 82.5N to 70S are graphed he
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/RSS-MSU.jpg

The trend is very much dependent on the latitude. If you look at the
figures for the various latitude bands, the positive trend is most
dramatic for 60/82, and nearly as strong for -20/20, whereas the trend
for -70/70 is almost zero - which seems to indicate that temperate
latitudes are not warming??

http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/GISS...n_Latitude.jpg