What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now
to me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy
accumulation, I remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3
hours or so. Has Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used
to snowfall ? Maybe the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly
dire warnings ?

Michael.

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Michael" wrote in message
.. .
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?


Heavy to me would be at least 15-20cm depth

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?
Michael.

Surely 'heavy snow' should be an assessment of the *rate* of snowfall, not
the accumulated depth? A light dusting of snow falling on top of an
accumulated metre is not 'heavy snow' - well, not to me, at any rate.

Anne

Anne

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

In article ,
Michael writes:
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now
to me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy
accumulation, I remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in
3 hours or so. Has Global Warming made the people of the UK so less
used to snowfall ? Maybe the Met Office needs to tame down their
seemingly dire warnings ?

IIRC, back in the 1960s 8 inches or more was heavy snow and 4-8 inches
was moderate snow.
--
John Hall
"Three o'clock is always too late or too early
for anything you want to do."
Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Anne Burgess wrote:

Surely 'heavy snow' should be an assessment of the *rate* of snowfall, not
the accumulated depth? A light dusting of snow falling on top of an
accumulated metre is not 'heavy snow' - well, not to me, at any rate.

Yes - the MO definition of 'heavy snow' is "Snow falling at a rate of 2
cm/hour or more expected for at least two hours.".

http://www.metoffice.com/weather/eur...ningguide.html
--
Steve Loft, Glenlivet. 200m ASL
Weather and webcam:
http://www.livet.org.uk/weather

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:05:00 -0500, Michael wrote:

Maybe the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?

http://www.meto.gov.uk/weather/europ...ningguide.html

"Heavy snow - Snow falling at a rate of 2 cm/hour or more expected for at
least two hours."

This is what they base the heavy snow warning on. You might be thinking
of "Very heavy snow - Snow falling at a rate of 2 cm/hour or more
expected for at least two hours, accumulating to 15 cm or more."

Looking at that warning guide page have they re-defined "Blizzard"? I'm
sure it was windier (F7/32mph or F8/39mph) and less visibility (50m)
instead of 30mph/200m.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Michael" wrote in message
.. .
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?

Michael.

According to UKMO Meteorological Glossary 'a rate of accumulation of snow
(in the absence of drifting) greater than 4cm/hour'

I also see Steve Loft's report from Glenlivet of 28cm of snow this morning
which is a greater depth than I have ever recorded here (since 1976)

All the best
--
George in Epping, West Essex (107m asl)
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Michael" wrote in message
.. .
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?

Michael.

(Apologies if this message arrives in duplicate as my previous reply seems
to have disappeared into cyberspace)

According to UKMO Meteorological Glossary 'a rate of accumulation of snow
(in the absence of drifting) greater than 4cm/hour'

I also see Steve Loft's report from Glenlivet of 28cm of snow this morning
which is a greater depth than I have ever recorded here (since 1976)

All the best

--
George in Epping, West Essex (107m asl)
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

I also see Steve Loft's report from Glenlivet of 28cm of snow this
morning
which is a greater depth than I have ever recorded here (since 1976)

It's the most snow I can remember experiencing for a very long time. I
seem to remember one event back in the 80's when I lived in Cheadle in
Staffordshire when I think there was more than this, and certainly some
huge drifts - my car on the drive was completely buried. I think it may
have been 1984 or 1985, does anyone know?

I think the most I have ever seen was beside Loch Glascarnoch one winter in
the early 1970s when I drove through a snow cutting twice or three times the
height of my car (OK, it was just a Mini but still ... )

I also saw film taken on Cairngorm in 1963 of people on skis jumping over
the top of buses in the snow cutting on the road up to the car park. (I
wonder what happened to that film? I bet the Scottish Film Archive would
like to have it!)

Anne

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:52:19 -0000, George Booth wrote:

According to UKMO Meteorological Glossary 'a rate of accumulation of
snow (in the absence of drifting) greater than 4cm/hour'

Some one needs to tell the the Meto's left hand what the right hand is
saying... But that might be station reports rather than trigger levels
for issuance of warnings. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Anne Burgess wrote:
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?
Michael.


Surely 'heavy snow' should be an assessment of the *rate* of snowfall, not
the accumulated depth? A light dusting of snow falling on top of an
accumulated metre is not 'heavy snow' - well, not to me, at any rate.

Anne

Anne



Quite correct Anne, I woke up this morning to half an inch of snow,
thinking that we had a heavy shower in the night.

Though I've just looked at my CCTV images from last night, and we had
continuous, mostly light snow for about two hours (4 to 6 am)

Joe
Wolverhampton
175m asl

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:05:00 -0500, Michael wrote:

Maybe the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?

http://www.meto.gov.uk/weather/europ...ningguide.html

"Heavy snow - Snow falling at a rate of 2 cm/hour or more expected for at
least two hours."

This is what they base the heavy snow warning on. You might be thinking
of "Very heavy snow - Snow falling at a rate of 2 cm/hour or more
expected for at least two hours, accumulating to 15 cm or more."

Looking at that warning guide page have they re-defined "Blizzard"? I'm
sure it was windier (F7/32mph or F8/39mph) and less visibility (50m)
instead of 30mph/200m.

--
Cheers

It may not fit with the MO rules, but when I was being taught
professional weather observing I was told that it was almost impossible
to know what rate of snow accumulation was going on, especially for
special reports to ATC that were needed with a change of intensity. I
was told the best guide was reduction in visibility. Snow was slight
until the visibility was reduced below 1500m and heavy if visibilty
fell below 800m.

That may be very unscientific, but it was based on the experience of
the old SO observer, and woe-betide anyone who argued with him.

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Looking at that warning guide page have they re-defined "Blizzard"?
I'm
sure it was windier (F7/32mph or F8/39mph) and less visibility (50m)
instead of 30mph/200m.


The official definition *was* (according to the Meteorological Glossary)
as in the Glossary for this ng:-

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.w...F.htm#Blizzard

The '200m' appears to fit, but 30mph is in the 'Force 6' category ....

Beaufort wind scale:-

http://www.zetnet.co.uk/sigs/weather...s/beaufort.htm

so perhaps there has been some downgrading of the criteria?

Martin.

--
FAQ & Glossary for uk.sci.weather at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.weather/uswfaqfr.htm
and
http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/metindex.htm

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

In message . com,
writes
snip
Cheers

It may not fit with the MO rules, but when I was being taught
professional weather observing I was told that it was almost impossible
to know what rate of snow accumulation was going on, especially for
special reports to ATC that were needed with a change of intensity. I
was told the best guide was reduction in visibility. Snow was slight
until the visibility was reduced below 1500m and heavy if visibilty
fell below 800m.

That may be very unscientific, but it was based on the experience of
the old SO observer, and woe-betide anyone who argued with him.

Seems to me to be scientific or at least objective in that is based on
an observable criterion. Connected with the variable being assessed
where that variable cannot be measured. Measurement by proxy?

Ask why information is needed. Immediate practical effects for
livestock, mobility and transport, etc. Also degree of after-effects -
albedo or thaw and perhaps flood. Good information from a proxy measure
of accumulation should be better than no information from uncollectable
dat.a

Oh, and many thanks to Philip Eden for initiating the group ten years
back and all those who still make it a source which I learn from.
--
Peter Thomas

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
...
George Booth wrote:

I also see Steve Loft's report from Glenlivet of 28cm of snow this morning
which is a greater depth than I have ever recorded here (since 1976)

It's the most snow I can remember experiencing for a very long time. I
seem to remember one event back in the 80's when I lived in Cheadle in
Staffordshire when I think there was more than this, and certainly some
huge drifts - my car on the drive was completely buried. I think it may
have been 1984 or 1985, does anyone know?
--
Steve Loft, Glenlivet. 200m ASL
Weather and webcam:
http://www.livet.org.uk/weather

I recorded 30 cm level snow in Binfield near Bracknell in Dec 1981. On that
occasion Heathrow had 30cm level too. The M4 was a nightmare just one lane open
and even that had 10 cms snow on it.

Will.
--

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Will Hand wrote:

I recorded 30 cm level snow in Binfield near Bracknell in Dec 1981. On that
occasion Heathrow had 30cm level too. The M4 was a nightmare just one lane open
and even that had 10 cms snow on it.

Will.

Hi, Will,

That's a lorra snow! I remember that time well

I wouldn't fancy driving in that area on snow - far too congested. My
sister and her family live in Slough, so I go know how busy it is. I'm
reasonably happy driving on the stuff around Copley in my Shogun and
Impreza (both 4x4's) as long as there are not many other cars around
and the drivers know what they are doing! Surely no sane person likes
driving on it?

Record level here 50cm in Jan 1984, Steve's doing well, but it'll start
to weigh itself down now.

Not much here at all, lots of sunshine.

Best wishes,

Ken
Copley 253metres asl, nr Barnard Castle, County Durham
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/copley

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Peter Thomas wrote:



Ask why information is needed. Immediate practical effects for
livestock, mobility and transport, etc. Also degree of after-effects -
albedo or thaw and perhaps flood. Good information from a proxy measure
of accumulation should be better than no information from uncollectable
dat.a


Yes, but the after effects were catered for by the hourly/6 hourly
rainfall totals which were derived from the water equivalent of the
depth of level snow that had fallen. An area had to be kept clear each
hour and the previous hours accumulation melted and measured in the
normal way. This could be a nightmare in strong winds as drifting would
make for a good deal of under-reading.

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

A level depth of 6 inches.

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Ken Cook" wrote in message
oups.com...

Will Hand wrote:

I recorded 30 cm level snow in Binfield near Bracknell in Dec 1981. On that
occasion Heathrow had 30cm level too. The M4 was a nightmare just one lane
open
and even that had 10 cms snow on it.

Will.

Hi, Will,

That's a lorra snow! I remember that time well

I wouldn't fancy driving in that area on snow - far too congested. My
sister and her family live in Slough, so I go know how busy it is. I'm
reasonably happy driving on the stuff around Copley in my Shogun and
Impreza (both 4x4's) as long as there are not many other cars around
and the drivers know what they are doing! Surely no sane person likes
driving on it?

Record level here 50cm in Jan 1984, Steve's doing well, but it'll start
to weigh itself down now.

Not much here at all, lots of sunshine.


Hi Ken,

I'm disappointed that you haven't got much, my daughter is at Uni in Durham and
she loves snow. I told her that it was one of the coldest parts of England and
was practically guaranteed to see plenty. Ironically we have had much more here
at home that she has had in Durham this winter. I did think that this northerly
would give her some, ah well!

I drove back from London on the M4 that morning in '81 after a night shift, it
took 3 hours to go 30 miles, I was lucky I left at 0800 an hour later and I
wouldn't have got home till afternoon. Yep, I too don't mind driving round here
in snow in my humble Fiesta as you can keep a steady speed and rarely have to
brake suddenly. Dead chuffed this morning, drove up a 1:6 hill with the road
covered in 1-2cm snow from last night and I made it - just, with a bit of help
from the verge. Fortunately all roads are dry now, such a relief isn't it !

Will
--

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

Anne Burgess wrote:
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?
Michael.

Surely 'heavy snow' should be an assessment of the *rate* of snowfall, not
the accumulated depth? A light dusting of snow falling on top of an
accumulated metre is not 'heavy snow' - well, not to me, at any rate.

Anne


I agree that 'heavy' refers to rate and not to accumulation.
I am naturally pleased to read elsewhere in this thread that the Met
Office definition agrees also.

But it is perhaps more interesting to see how many people think it
refers to depth, even when posting after the definition has been posted
a few times.


--
Gianna

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

In article ,
Will Hand writes:
I recorded 30 cm level snow in Binfield near Bracknell in Dec 1981. On that
occasion Heathrow had 30cm level too. The M4 was a nightmare just one lane open
and even that had 10 cms snow on it.

I think that the greatest depth we've had in Cranleigh, Surrey in my
time is about 17 inches - say 42 cm - on New Year's Day, 1963, this
being the aggregate of 7 inch falls on 26th-27th Dec and on 29th-30th,
and a 3 inch fall on the evening of the 31st.
--
John Hall
"Three o'clock is always too late or too early
for anything you want to do."
Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

In message , Anne
Burgess writes
Several Flash Warnings mention "Heavy Snow" of 2 to 5 cm in depth. Now to
me less than 1 inch of lying snow is not exactly a heavy accumulation, I
remember one night in Bradford when we had 5 inches in 3 hours or so. Has
Global Warming made the people of the UK so less used to snowfall ? Maybe
the Met Office needs to tame down their seemingly dire warnings ?
Michael.

Surely 'heavy snow' should be an assessment of the *rate* of snowfall, not
the accumulated depth? A light dusting of snow falling on top of an
accumulated metre is not 'heavy snow' - well, not to me, at any rate.

Anne

Anne
Anne, I agree. When observing I used to use visibility as a good guide,
generally 2000M was moderate and 1000M heavy.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' Socrates.
Paul Bartlett FRMetS
www.rutnet.co.uk Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL 25Miles southwest of the Wash

What do you think is "Heavy Snow"
 

"Paul Bartlett" wrote in message
Anne
Anne, I agree. When observing I used to use visibility as a good
guide, generally 2000M was moderate and 1000M heavy.
Cheers
Paul

.... the current advice (from the Met Office / Civil Aviation) for ATC
observers when deciding the intensity of snow is as follows:-

slight snow: visibility 4000m or greater
moderate snow: visibility less than 3000m
heavy snow: visibility less than 2000m

Like you Paul, I would have moved the 'heavy' category down to 'fog
limits', which is what we usually experience with heavy snow. I'm not
sure how these 'official' definitions were arrived at. However, they are
listed as a 'guide' rather than strict limits, so observers should still
use some discretion.

Martin.


--
FAQ & Glossary for uk.sci.weather at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.weather/uswfaqfr.htm
and
http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/metindex.htm