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uk.sci.weather (UK Weather) (uk.sci.weather) For the discussion of daily weather events, chiefly affecting the UK and adjacent parts of Europe, both past and predicted. The discussion is open to all, but contributions on a practical scientific level are encouraged. |
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#1
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A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? -- Keith (Southend) http://www.southendweather.net e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net |
#2
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Keith (Southend) wrote:
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? I've got the impression these Highs seem to quickly become filled with cloud as moist air comes over the top of them; thereby suppressing any tendency for radiation type fog. I good 8/8 layer of Sc at 5000' is enough to render any Autumn/Winter day gloomy but not foggy, and night frost-free. Mmmmm... Anticyclonic gloom.... -- Chris http://www.ivy-house.net Swaffham, Norfolk |
#3
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![]() "Keith (Southend)" wrote in message ... :A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing : high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and : almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have : hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now : live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew : hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, : yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all : through the day. : : What has changed? Hmm, interesting - you reminded me of about 15 years ago, and 12 years ago, with days where the fog didn't lift. I recall 15 years ago, driving from our village (nr Rugby) to Kenilworth to meet my mum, then over to Coventry, all the while being in thick fog, and even in the city (ok the burbs, but in amongst the houses) it was still reducing visibility to about 50-100 yds. 12 years ago, I can remember setting off from the office (Hayes nr Bromley) and it was freezing fog, and getting as far as Thurrock services before giving up, and having to buy loads of bottled drink to clear the screen. What should have taken me a couple of hours, took me the best part of 8 because of the speeds and the accidents to get back to the midlands. Since we moved to the south east in 2004, I cannot remember any days that stayed foggy and damp at all. I'd be interested in the thoughts too as to why not - could it be related to the overall amount of water about? ie in having such dry conditions for quite a period, there isn't the excess moisture around to generate the fogs? (ok I know thats is probably as dumb as it reads - but!) Si |
#4
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GrnOval wrote:
I recall 15 years ago, driving from our village (nr Rugby) to Kenilworth to meet my mum, then over to Coventry, all the while being in thick fog, and even in the city (ok the burbs, but in amongst the houses) it was still reducing visibility to about 50-100 yds. I remember the same, about 10-15 years ago, driving along the A4097 just south of Kingsbury in Warwickshire where the road dives straight across Kingsbury Water Park, that there would be extremely bad fog there. I remember trying to cross the railway line near Dosthill in Tamworth on the way to (and from) school and not being able to see far enough to tell if there's even a slow train approaching! Either I don't get up early enough to see that sort of fog or we just don't get it these days. Jonathan Canterbury |
#5
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![]() I remember the same, about 10-15 years ago, driving along the A4097 just south of Kingsbury in Warwickshire where the road dives straight across Kingsbury Water Park, that there would be extremely bad fog there OT only there a few days ago, a good walk with the dog and a great pint at the Dog and Doublet |
#6
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![]() "Keith (Southend)" wrote in message ... A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? -- Keith (Southend) http://www.southendweather.net I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce fog. In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was always the hope that school would close early in the afternoon ! I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke haze which would have been even thicker today. Peter Clarke Ewell, Epsom 55m |
#7
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![]() " Peter Clarke" wrote in message ... "Keith (Southend)" wrote in message ... A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? -- Keith (Southend) http://www.southendweather.net I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce fog. In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was always the hope that school would close early in the afternoon ! I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke haze which would have been even thicker today. Peter Clarke Ewell, Epsom 55m It's still early for an all dayer. October here was very foggy, though not always at 0900 recording time. We had an excellent variety of radiation, hill and sea fog. I must admit though, that when becoming based at York I was concerned at the travel I would have to do in fog through the Vale of York, but it's been not too bad for the last 5 years. -- David Mitchell, 70m amsl, Langtoft, East Riding of Yorkshire. |
#8
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![]() "Keith (Southend)" wrote in message ... A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? Keith, you're correct, lowland radiation fog has got much rarer and thinner. All to do with cleaner air and less condensation nucleii like soot etc. Hill fog OTOH has probably got more common due to generally warmer and more moist winters. Will. -- |
#9
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![]() " Peter Clarke" wrote : "Keith (Southend)" wrote : A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce fog. In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before the end of November. Peter, I remember a couple of days in September 1966 which were foggy all day in my part of Bedfordshire. Usually, though, it was around mid-October in Luton. In those days it seemed that the sky only had to clear for an hour or so late-afternoon, and if the wind was F2 or less, bang, the fog would clamp down. Yes, the particulate pollution of domestic fires and industrial emissions provided a far greater density of condensation nucleii in those days than exists now. Philip |
#10
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![]() " Peter Clarke" wrote in message ... "Keith (Southend)" wrote in message ... A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day. What has changed? -- Keith (Southend) http://www.southendweather.net I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce fog. In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was always the hope that school would close early in the afternoon ! I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke haze which would have been even thicker today. Peter Clarke Ewell, Epsom 55m I've just been for my evening stroll and the air really does feel dense and cold, actually to me back to days of yore (nice area) Then reading Keith's fog thread (well lack off) and other recollections takes me back to the Autumn of 62. That was real fog, or smog as it was known. Blimey that stuff was acrid, yellowy/green and you could almost pick it up with a spoon-it was that thick. Actually I say yellow/green but that was induced by street lighting in the actual daylight hours I just seem to recall a dense grey. As boy of course I loved it, nice and cosy indoors everything seemingly closed in. Like many children during that Smog you couldn't go to school as it was deemed dangerous-imagine that now into days H&S mad world. Then every one just got on with it. Where I lived then, Grove Lane in Camberwell ( just a few doors away from where Jenny Eclair lives now) the road was always busy at rush hour and I remember everything just coming to a standstill. I still have a vivid memory of an old RT bus , a 176 creeping up Grove Lane with the conductor leading the way with a torch. Another other point to remember was the smog would actually get onto the bus as they were open vehicles and blimey it could be absolutely bone numbingly perishing when travelling. It would also seep down the hallway when the street door was opened. Yet despite all the dangers, the being freezing cold in that damp clingy smog,and the fact I now know how bad it was for people with respiratory problems ; I loved every minute of it. Global Warming ? a piece of cake. They don't know they're born. |
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