Philip Eden wrote:


Peter, I remember a couple of days in September 1966 which were
foggy all day in my part of Bedfordshire. Usually, though, it was around
mid-October in Luton. In those days it seemed that the sky only had
to clear for an hour or so late-afternoon, and if the wind was F2 or less,
bang, the fog would clamp down.

Yes, the particulate pollution of domestic fires and industrial emissions
provided a far greater density of condensation nucleii in those days than
exists now.

Philip



Could this also be a contributory factor to our warming temperatures?
Loosely thinking just two days in Autumn that would have been foggy,
compared to none now would have made a difference of 3 to 4°c on the
daily maximum temperature, although arguably the clearer nights may lead
to colder radiation nights, in theory. Although as far as the grand
scheme of things goes the reduction in smoke is mainly confined to the
more developed European Countries and not to large parts of China, Asia,
etc.

--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net
e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net

Can't let this one go without my memory of the great smog of Dec '52,being
let into the cinema for free because you couldn't see the screen from the
back,discern a yellow blur half way down ,and only see figures in the front
row !.
The taste of smoke was appaling even in our houses,and the frost laid 4mm
thick for several days.by which time it resembled dirty salt.
Ah those were the days.....


RonB
"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour
or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember
days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net
e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
...

" Peter Clarke" wrote :
"Keith (Southend)" wrote :
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and
almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have
hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live
with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get
an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can
remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the
day.

What has changed?

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source
of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the
first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On
calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke
haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with
it to produce fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward
to seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to
clear. The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was
30 October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last
all day before the end of November.

Peter, I remember a couple of days in September 1966 which were
foggy all day in my part of Bedfordshire. Usually, though, it was around
mid-October in Luton. In those days it seemed that the sky only had
to clear for an hour or so late-afternoon, and if the wind was F2 or less,
bang, the fog would clamp down.

Yes, the particulate pollution of domestic fires and industrial emissions
provided a far greater density of condensation nucleii in those days than
exists now.

Philip


Besides people still using coal in the early sixties, London still had many
active power stations. This is interesting from 1951
http://www.metadyne.co.uk/electricity%201951.pdf

http://www.metadyne.co.uk/powerphotos.html

Off course I was born during the November Pea souper in 1952, and that
probably expalins a lot!

In article ,
Peter Clarke writes:

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour
or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember
days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day.

What has changed?

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of
heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first
job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear
mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if
conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce
fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to
seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The
earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October
1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before
the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was always the hope
that school would close early in the afternoon !
I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light
breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke haze
which would have been even thicker today.

I've recently read a couple of books written in the 1950s: "A Century of
London Weather" and CEP Brooks' "The English Climate". It's noticeable
how much space they devote to discussing fog, which then was a major
problem (and in urban areas a health hazard) in a way that it no longer
is.
--
John Hall

"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde

lawrence Jenkins wrote:

Off course I was born during the November Pea souper in 1952, and that
probably expalins a lot!



Was there a pea-souper in February 1952 as well? :-)

--
Howard Neil

"John Hall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Clarke writes:

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...

I've recently read a couple of books written in the 1950s: "A Century of
London Weather" and CEP Brooks' "The English Climate". It's noticeable
how much space they devote to discussing fog, which then was a major
problem (and in urban areas a health hazard) in a way that it no longer
is.
--
John Hall

"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde

Interesting to read all the comments about fogs in this thread, but the best
article about fog I have seen was in " Weather" magazine in March 1950 by
L.C. W. Bonacina. The item was titled ' London Fogs - Then and Now'.

Bonacina was born in 1882 and was certainly a weather enthusiast. In his
article , he writes he has ' lively memories of the 1890s and 1900s' and
says 'I should like to say something about the improvement ( in fogs) which
is certainly not appreciated by the younger meteorologists and others'. This
was written in 1950! I remember reading this and felt I had 'missed out' on
experiencing Victorian fogs.

He goes on to describe what it was like to be out in a Victorian ' London
Particular' which started out as yellow in the morning and became a dark
brown in colour by the afternoon. After dark there was chaos, hansom cabs
and other vehicles found themselves on the footways, a pedestrian ' could
easily spend the evening looking for his house round the corner, and when he
did get home would find the rooms half filled with the choking fog'.

As Ron Button has said ' those were the days'.

Peter Clarke

PS I met Mr Bonacina at several Met Soc meetings in the 1950s and 1960s, a
kindly man who told me some weather anecdotes from his youth.

When I was about 7 or 8, I'm guessing 1986 or 1987, I remember the worst fog
I've ever witnessed, here in Brum. It was on a Saturday in late October or
early November, and I had attended a bonfire and fireworks display with my
aunt and uncle in Edgbaston, was returning back to Shard End in the Cole
Valley to the east of the city, and as we got closer home the fog became so
bad that for parts of the last 500 metres home, my aunt had to get out of
the car and help give my uncle guidance on navigating the streets. The
visibility may not even have been 10 metres, no doubt all the bonfires had
something to do with it, but I've never heard that event referred anywhere,
but would like to find out more about it.


"Ron Button" wrote in message
...
Can't let this one go without my memory of the great smog of Dec '52,being
let into the cinema for free because you couldn't see the screen from the
back,discern a yellow blur half way down ,and only see figures in the
front row !.
The taste of smoke was appaling even in our houses,and the frost laid 4mm
thick for several days.by which time it resembled dirty salt.
Ah those were the days.....


RonB
"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an
hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can
remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the
day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net
e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net

I remember walking into a lampost as a child as you literally couldn't see
in front of your face. The deadening of all sound is another vivid memory. I
also recall whenever we drove from Essex to relatives in West London a smog
always seemed to appear when we hit Barking. The fog seems to be one thing
us older ones can all agree on!
Dave

"Dave.C" wrote in message
. uk...
I remember walking into a lampost as a child as you literally couldn't see
in front of your face. The deadening of all sound is another vivid memory. I
also recall whenever we drove from Essex to relatives in West London a smog
always seemed to appear when we hit Barking. The fog seems to be one thing
us older ones can all agree on!
Dave



Yep I can remember Manchester in the late 1950s when I was about 6 or 7, fogs
were so thick that if you put your hand out in front of your face you couldn't
see it barely and I exagerrate not. They were very sooty too. Always told to
cover my mouth. Yet by the mid 60s those fogs were a thing of the past. Thickest
fog I've seen in recent years was driving across the moor one night two years
ago. I nearly drove into a ditch, the visibility was that poor, circa 10 metres
in hill fog.

Will.
--

Will Hand wrote:

Yep I can remember Manchester in the late 1950s when I was about 6 or 7,

Gosh, I didn't think you were that old Will :-)
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net
e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net