I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog. I was an airline Fleet Manager
based at Gatwick at the time. Auto land was a rarity in those days so
the level of chaos was considerable but for different reasons. Our
aircraft finished up at Manston, Kent, where the ground handling
facilities were minimal. The aircrew did a wonderful job keeping the
passengers informed, arranging surface transport, etc.

Some time later, I was talking about this with some "job's worth"
in the [name of government organisation deleted]. He "pointed out"
that aircrew were not supposed to get involved in these matters and
they were the sole responsibility of the ground handling company at
Manston. That company was of course completely overstretched and was
not just dealing with our airline.

Put it this way, had the crews in our airline NOT done all they could
to help (and none of them had to be asked) they would have been in my
office later and asked to explain.

Jack

Jack ) wrote:
I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog. I was an airline Fleet Manager
based at Gatwick at the time. Auto land was a rarity in those days so
the level of chaos was considerable but for different reasons. Our
aircraft finished up at Manston, Kent, where the ground handling
facilities were minimal. The aircrew did a wonderful job keeping the
passengers informed, arranging surface transport, etc.

Some time later, I was talking about this with some "job's worth"
in the [name of government organisation deleted]. He "pointed out"
that aircrew were not supposed to get involved in these matters and
they were the sole responsibility of the ground handling company at
Manston. That company was of course completely overstretched and was
not just dealing with our airline.

Put it this way, had the crews in our airline NOT done all they could
to help (and none of them had to be asked) they would have been in my
office later and asked to explain.

Jack


Jack,

I remember that year well. We were supposed to be flying to Nairobi
that night from Heathrow but the fog put paid to this. Faced with a
prospect of sleeping the night in the terminal (which was much less
crowded in those days) and going home our family took the latter -
despite the fact we had checked in and the protestations on the ground
handling staff.
I cannot tell you how disappointed a seven-year-old boy was that
instead of taking his first 747 long-haul flight - he was back home in
bed in Chadwell Heath.

I cannot remember what happened subsequently but I think we got up the
next morning and the flight left later that day. No mean feat in the
days before mobile phones, internet and even teletext!

wrote in message
ps.com...
I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog. I was an airline Fleet Manager
based at Gatwick at the time. Auto land was a rarity in those days so
the level of chaos was considerable but for different reasons. Our
aircraft finished up at Manston, Kent, where the ground handling
facilities were minimal. The aircrew did a wonderful job keeping the
passengers informed, arranging surface transport, etc.

Some time later, I was talking about this with some "job's worth"
in the [name of government organisation deleted]. He "pointed out"
that aircrew were not supposed to get involved in these matters and
they were the sole responsibility of the ground handling company at
Manston. That company was of course completely overstretched and was
not just dealing with our airline.

Put it this way, had the crews in our airline NOT done all they could
to help (and none of them had to be asked) they would have been in my
office later and asked to explain.

Jack

What fog? Today's fog is just a light mist compared
with the peasoupers of yesteryear. The problem in
those coalburning days was that small particles of
soot suspended in the fog would completely absorb
any diffuse light. The result being that you could hardly
see a hand in front of your face. Getting home in a car
was an absolute nightmare and was literally a question
of someone walking in front of the car and guiding it
along the road by feeling the kerb. Honest :-)

Alan

"Rodney Blackall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alan Murphy wrote:
Getting home in a car
was an absolute nightmare and was literally a question
of someone walking in front of the car and guiding it
along the road by feeling the kerb. Honest :-)

Alan

Of course in those days the walker was bare-foot and could tell by the feel
of the surface which road he (always a" he") was in!


Feet, you had feet? You were lucky, when I was young .... :-)

Will.
--

Jack ) wrote:

I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog.

You must be mistaken, Jack. A spokesman (for BAA?) on Radio 5 Breakfast this
morning that the problems are due to dense fog - dense? - at Heathrow and
that it's unprecedented for it to last so long at this time of year. Of
course that means all the long-lasting freezing fogs that I remember
occurring at this time of year must also be a figment of my imagination.

--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Will Hand wrote:
"Rodney Blackall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alan Murphy wrote:
Getting home in a car
was an absolute nightmare and was literally a question
of someone walking in front of the car and guiding it
along the road by feeling the kerb. Honest :-)

Alan

Of course in those days the walker was bare-foot and could tell by the feel
of the surface which road he (always a" he") was in!


Feet, you had feet? You were lucky, when I was young .... :-)

Let me guess Will isn't short for William?

I only experienced on of them but still remember how black everything
got in it. I hope your personal hygiene standards were better than the
public one.

"Graham P Davis" wrote:
Jack ) wrote:

I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog.

You must be mistaken, Jack. A spokesman (for BAA?) on Radio 5 Breakfast
this
morning that the problems are due to dense fog - dense? - at Heathrow and
that it's unprecedented for it to last so long at this time of year. Of
course that means all the long-lasting freezing fogs that I remember
occurring at this time of year must also be a figment of my imagination.

That's because history began in 1997.

Philip

"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
...
Jack ) wrote:

I cannot comment on the administrative background to the present
airport chaos, but I throw in this little story.

Just before Christmas 1979, the weather pattern was almost identical to
that at present with widespread fog.

You must be mistaken, Jack. A spokesman (for BAA?) on Radio 5 Breakfast this
morning that the problems are due to dense fog - dense? - at Heathrow and
that it's unprecedented for it to last so long at this time of year. Of
course that means all the long-lasting freezing fogs that I remember
occurring at this time of year must also be a figment of my imagination.


Why do people always seem to hype up the weather nowadays?
Modern weather is really very benign most of the time (as it often was in the
past if we are honest), and then all of a sudden you get a Boscastle. This fog
is just run of the mill ordinary winter stuff. The main problem is that Heathrow
is operating at 98% capacity and hence cannot cope with any interruptions. Same
with other aspects of our crowded infrastructure.

Will.
--

"Will Hand" wrote in message
...
Why do people always seem to hype up the weather nowadays?
Modern weather is really very benign most of the time (as it often was in
the
past if we are honest), and then all of a sudden you get a Boscastle. This
fog
is just run of the mill ordinary winter stuff. The main problem is that
Heathrow
is operating at 98% capacity and hence cannot cope with any interruptions.
Same
with other aspects of our crowded infrastructure.

Reporters live at Heathrow on the main evening news from BBC/ITN last night
trying their best to hype everything up. One even asked "where does the fog
come from?" It's only in part a weather problem - more congestion related as
you say.

Overcrowding at Heathrow is caused by British Airways, who (for commercial
reasons) choose to operate just one long haul flight from the UK outside
London and therefore need to funnel nearly all their transfer passengers
through this crowded place. Also, a lack of suitable high speed ground
transportation between airports which results a rise in the number of very
short distance domestic flights. In this respect the fog merely highlights
the transport problems that the DfT/Treasury have failed to address.

"Will Hand" wrote Why do people always seem to hype up the weather
nowadays? LARGE SNIP
Modern weather is really very benign most of the time (as it often was in
the
past if we are honest), and then all of a sudden you get a Boscastle. This
fog
is just run of the mill ordinary winter stuff. The main problem is that
Heathrow
is operating at 98% capacity and hence cannot cope with any interruptions.

I was off work yesterday and I noticed one of the BBC weather presenters was
asked about the fog. He said that the problem was that "the large amount of
moisture from the heavy rainfall over the past few weeks was now *coming out
of the ground* and was causing the problem.........."

Well .... that, as an oversimplification, ranks with my late grannie's
explanation of a "cloudburst", bless her, ("the clouds tear and it all comes
down at once"). Later on in the day, another (general news) presenter at
Heathrow said: "The weather front that brought all this fog has not moved
away as quickly as expected".

I try not to be too het-up about these things but news correspondents do
need a good kick up the whatsits, sometimes. In my own field of
Environmental Health, the ususal image shown in the aftermath of a large and
often fatal food poisoning outbreak - I'm thinking of one some years ago at
a large NHS hospital - is to show workers busy with gallons of bleach,
paying extra attention to pouring it, wholesale, down WC bowls. They have
no idea and don't seem to want to know the REAL reasons behind an outbreak,
but they cause us untold problems in educating food handlers later on.

To a group of catering workers, who were aghast that I *didn't* agree with
their thrice-daily bleaching of their loos and fanatical scrubbing of the
kitchen floors, at the expense of almost everything else, I had to say: "Why
do you need the floor to be clinically clean - isn't it instinctive that any
food that drops on the floor should immediately go in the bin" and "what are
you proposing to do in the WC that requires it to be sterile - and only then
until it's next used"? Meanwhile, their temperature control was
non-existent and the organisation of foodstuffs in their fridges and stock
control was bordering on lethal.

Rant over - but it has prepared me for some late (and only) Xmas shopping
this afternoon, conveniently round the corner from here - in Oxford Street!

Have a good Christmas and New Year.

Regards,

- Tom.