Hi. We, as group here, discuss many things. One of them is chaos
theory. We are barristers, engineers, etc so we do have a few brain
cells between us.'
Lorenz 1961-1963 produced his attract, we can almost get our tiny minds
round this - almost.
God gets brought into this also, as he has shown remarkable skill in
organising the planet.
Without streams of equations we need help on the concept. I know it is
like trying to explain a nuclear power station to a three year old.
But help!.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' Socrates.
Paul Bartlett FRMetS
www.rutnet.co.uk Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL 25Miles southwest of the Wash

On Mar 20, 7:54*pm, Paul Bartlett wrote:
Hi. *We, as group here, discuss many things. *One of them is chaos
theory. *We are barristers, engineers, etc so we do have a few brain
cells between us.'
Lorenz 1961-1963 produced his attract, we can almost get our tiny minds
round this - almost.
God gets brought into this also, as he has shown remarkable skill in
organising the planet.
Without streams of equations we need help on the concept. *I know it is
like trying to explain a nuclear power station to a three year old.
But help!.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' * Socrates.
Paul Bartlett *FRMetSwww.rutnet.co.uk* * Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL * * 25Miles southwest of the Wash

The atmosphere shows bounded chaos, i.e. there are limits to
the range of pressures, temperatures, windspeeds etc that can be
experienced. Nothing can shoot off to infinity or collapse into a
singualrity, unlike the case in say, celestial mechanics.
This chaos originates at a molecular level and there is a
fairly persuasive theory that this chaos cascades upwards through the
scales to synoptic level such that after about 20 days it is
impossible even in principle to predict the position of individual
highs and lows though that doesn't exclude the possibility of making
some useful forecasts of the general nature of the circulation. I am
not qualified to comment on the purely mathematical validity of this
theory but I'll believe it until someone can disprove it.
As to God, if He organised the planet and is the doer and
maker of all things He is either incompetent or malevolent, hardly
surprising for something conjured up by humans for the justification
of their own beliefs and prejudices. No understanding of the natural
world accrues from a belief in God, except perhaps of humans
themselves and their interactions.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

Yes the atmosphere is chaotic.

There are a finite number of molecules and the illustration I use is to take
a bucket of white polystyrene pieces and tip them outside onto the grass. If
there is a breeze then they will all move in the same direction but every
time you drop them they will be arranged differently on the grass due to
slight changes in how you tip them and how you put them back each time. That
is chaos. As for God, that is a matter of personal belief which should be
respected but necessarily agreed with. As for the planet, yes it is a
wonderful, complex and organised place but beautifully chaotic. The real fun
starts when you start to bring in Quantum mechanics and String theory ......
:-)

Will
--

"Paul Bartlett" wrote in message
...
Hi. We, as group here, discuss many things. One of them is chaos
theory. We are barristers, engineers, etc so we do have a few brain
cells between us.'
Lorenz 1961-1963 produced his attract, we can almost get our tiny minds
round this - almost.
God gets brought into this also, as he has shown remarkable skill in
organising the planet.
Without streams of equations we need help on the concept. I know it is
like trying to explain a nuclear power station to a three year old.
But help!.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' Socrates.
Paul Bartlett FRMetS
www.rutnet.co.uk Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL 25Miles southwest of the Wash

Oops ..
" As for God, that is a matter of personal belief which should be
respected but *not* necessarily agreed with "

Will
--

"Will Hand" wrote in message
...
Yes the atmosphere is chaotic.

There are a finite number of molecules and the illustration I use is to
take
a bucket of white polystyrene pieces and tip them outside onto the grass.
If
there is a breeze then they will all move in the same direction but every
time you drop them they will be arranged differently on the grass due to
slight changes in how you tip them and how you put them back each time.
That
is chaos. As for God, that is a matter of personal belief which should be
respected but necessarily agreed with. As for the planet, yes it is a
wonderful, complex and organised place but beautifully chaotic. The real
fun
starts when you start to bring in Quantum mechanics and String theory
.......
:-)

Will
--

"Paul Bartlett" wrote in message
...
Hi. We, as group here, discuss many things. One of them is chaos
theory. We are barristers, engineers, etc so we do have a few brain
cells between us.'
Lorenz 1961-1963 produced his attract, we can almost get our tiny minds
round this - almost.
God gets brought into this also, as he has shown remarkable skill in
organising the planet.
Without streams of equations we need help on the concept. I know it is
like trying to explain a nuclear power station to a three year old.
But help!.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' Socrates.
Paul Bartlett FRMetS
www.rutnet.co.uk Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL 25Miles southwest of the Wash

One word - "Fractals"


Will Hand wrote:
Yes the atmosphere is chaotic.

There are a finite number of molecules and the illustration I use is to take
a bucket of white polystyrene pieces and tip them outside onto the grass. If
there is a breeze then they will all move in the same direction but every
time you drop them they will be arranged differently on the grass due to
slight changes in how you tip them and how you put them back each time. That
is chaos. As for God, that is a matter of personal belief which should be
respected but necessarily agreed with. As for the planet, yes it is a
wonderful, complex and organised place but beautifully chaotic. The real fun
starts when you start to bring in Quantum mechanics and String theory ......
:-)

Will
--

"Paul Bartlett" wrote in message
...
Hi. We, as group here, discuss many things. One of them is chaos
theory. We are barristers, engineers, etc so we do have a few brain
cells between us.'
Lorenz 1961-1963 produced his attract, we can almost get our tiny minds
round this - almost.
God gets brought into this also, as he has shown remarkable skill in
organising the planet.
Without streams of equations we need help on the concept. I know it is
like trying to explain a nuclear power station to a three year old.
But help!.
Cheers
Paul
--
'Wisest are they that know they do not know.' Socrates.
Paul Bartlett FRMetS
www.rutnet.co.uk Go to local weather.
400FT AMSL 25Miles southwest of the Wash




--
Joe Egginton
Wolverhampton
175m asl

On Mar 21, 10:47 am, Joe Egginton wrote:
One word - "Fractals"

Will you learn not to top post you idiot.

Snipped most of the stuff I didn't agree with.

Is the Atmosphere chaotic?

No. Not unless you count the organised fractals that the theorists so
desperately need in their supercomputing and of which I know nothing.

If it were truly chaotic it would once in a short while (maybe two or
three times an year) go over the line of survivability in certain
places.

But we see that despite conditions at the end of this spell indicating
it does, there are plenty of survivors in the US mid-west and in the
Tibetan Chinese border.

Furthermore most of the regulars on here seem to accept that there is
a fair argument for forecasting events in it. This despite none of
them besides me having a clue what causes it.

The previous poster started it! Anyway what right have you to call me
an idiot? When Stoke even isn't a proper city. What kind of city is
made up of five small towns?


Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Mar 21, 10:47 am, Joe Egginton wrote:
One word - "Fractals"

Will you learn not to top post you idiot.


--
Joe Egginton
Wolverhampton
175m asl

On Mar 21, 2:06*pm, Joe Egginton wrote:
The previous poster started it! *Anyway what right have you to call me
an idiot? *When Stoke even isn't a proper city. *What kind of city is
made up of five small towns?

Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Mar 21, 10:47 am, Joe Egginton wrote:
One word - "Fractals"

Will you learn not to top post you idiot.

--
Joe Egginton
Wolverhampton
175m asl

Come along, children, stop bickering. You're both in the same
county, or at least were.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

Joe Egginton wrote:

The previous poster started it! Anyway what right have you to call me
an idiot? When Stoke even isn't a proper city. What kind of city is
made up of five small towns?

Stoke is a town. Stoke-on-Trent is a city. And there are more than five
towns anyway, Bennett couldn't count.
--
Steve Loft
Sanday, Orkney. 5m ASL. http://sanday.org.uk/weather
Free weather station softwa http://sandaysoft.com/
uk.sci.weather FAQs/glossary/etc: http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/