In article ,
Nick Gardner writes:
In the light of recent heated, and sometimes insulting posts that some
members of this scientific newsgroup have written about other members,
coincided with an article written in the Last Word section of the
Newscientist.

The question was this:
"When a thread or topic is started on a user-generated forum on the
internet, it isn't long before one of the contributors makes a seemingly
unprovoked attack on a total stranger. What is it about non-face-to-face
contact of this kind that makes this more common than it would otherwise
be?"
snip answers

Have you ever read any letters pages of respected scientific journals?
Even there the discussion can often get surprisingly heated. It seems
that many scientists find it very difficult to have a disagreement
without it becoming emotional.
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On Mar 31, 10:32*pm, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Mar 31, 9:02 pm, smallbabe wrote:





On Mar 31, 8:36 pm, "Will Hand" wrote:

Nick Gardner wrote:

snip

Very interesting. TBH I'm always much more suspicious of people who do
not
use their own name on the InterNet and/or provide an e-mail that
bounces.
I'm always left wondering what have they got to hide? Until you get to
know
them a bit better of course!

Will
--

Or, it could be that they are completely right in what they say. I've
lost track of the number of people that described you as "smug". After
my final dealings with you last autumn, it was very, very easy to see
why they did.

* * *It's true that Will can be a little smug occasionally but this is
a tiny fault compared with your bullying rudeness. *After all, his
original posting which set all this off was a model of modesty and
self-effacement and stated quite clearly it was no more than a hunch.
It was almost as if he knew you were round the corner with your bottle
of vitriol. *No wonder we all hate you.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

I don't think that Will is smug, the fault lies with some of the
ingratiating fawners that have acted *like his groupies over the years.

Will I'm taking your picture down of my wall .. It hides a messy stain
that's lying there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand. An exterior which professes reasonableness
and moderation and an interior that is prepared to go to great lengths
to vilify the questioner - oh and a very, very, selective memory. As I
have said before, your forecasts, from a hobbyist, run the risk of
leading some of these fawners and acolytes into trouble, Dartmoor is
not a place on which to take risks with an individual's forecasts.
That includes yours. No outcome success statistics; no way of knowing
how accurate the forecasts are. That's my point for you and your
website users to ponder.

Paul

smallbabe wrote:

Well, that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand.

Well done, Paul. Replying to Lawrence's post and calling him Mr Hand.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK. E-mail: newsman not newsboy

On Apr 1, 5:06*pm, Graham P Davis wrote:
smallbabe wrote:
Well, *that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand.

Well done, Paul. Replying to Lawrence's post and calling him Mr Hand.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK. *E-mail: newsman not newsboy

Thank You Graham. Consider why I didn't reply directly to Will's post,
but talked about Mr. Hand in that reply? I've never been secretive
about my personal details, having had them publically available on
several sites. What I'm not appreciative is someone trying to use them
as a weapon for his own crusade. I am quite aware that Lawrence is not
Mr. Hand. Figured it now? Feeling just a little bit silly with it?

Graham P Davis wrote:
smallbabe wrote:

Well, that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand.

Well done, Paul. Replying to Lawrence's post and calling him Mr Hand.

This has happened before - him mixing me up with someone else. And repeating
his same point ad-infinitum. He has not responded yet to my question of how
does one verify Dartmoor forecasts of snow, hail, sleet, wind speed and
visibility when there are no observations above 400m asl? Nor has he
responded to my assertion that if people did not find my forecasts useful
they would not tell me so and that is a reasonable way of verifying
usefulness? For a forecaster to get people telling him that his forecasts
make a difference and are useful are probably more valuable and meaningful
actually than a percentage success rate, even if that were possible for
Dartmoor. I do take Paul's point that my forecasts are not measured
objectively although I do keep track myself to learn from mistakes but what
is the accuracy of professional forecast providers? I also point out that my
forecasts clearly have a disclaimer and now that the MetO are producing
Dartmoor forecasts I will be pointing my readers to those for daily updates
and for key decision making. You may also note Paul that the Ten Tors will
be getting their forecasts from the MetO so don't worry, the good folk of
Dartmoor do know the difference between a heads-up once a week and a
'proper' forecast service. OK I guess everyone has had enough of this, so
have I, Paul has made his point (5 times) and I don't think we are going to
get any further so that's it from me. I have another weekly update to start
preparing :-)

Cheers,

Will
--

On Apr 1, 5:27*pm, "Will Hand" wrote:
Graham P Davis wrote:
smallbabe wrote:

Well, *that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand.

Well done, Paul. Replying to Lawrence's post and calling him Mr Hand.

This has happened before - him mixing me up with someone else. And repeating
his same point ad-infinitum. He has not responded yet to my question of how
does one verify Dartmoor forecasts of snow, hail, sleet, wind speed and
visibility when there are no observations above 400m asl? Nor has he
responded to my assertion that if people did not find my forecasts useful
they would not tell me so and that is a reasonable way of verifying
usefulness? For a forecaster to get people telling him that his forecasts
make a difference and are useful are probably more valuable and meaningful
actually than a percentage success rate, even if that were possible for
Dartmoor. I do take Paul's point that my forecasts are not measured
objectively although I do keep track myself to learn from mistakes but what
is the accuracy of professional forecast providers? I also point out that my
forecasts clearly have a disclaimer and now that the MetO are producing
Dartmoor forecasts I will be pointing my readers to those for daily updates
and for key decision making. You may also note Paul that the Ten Tors will
be getting their forecasts from the MetO so don't worry, the good folk of
Dartmoor do know the difference between a heads-up once a week and a
'proper' forecast service. OK I guess everyone has had enough of this, so
have I, Paul has made his point (5 times) and I don't think we are going to
get any further so that's it from me. I have another weekly update to start
preparing :-)

Cheers,

Will
--

I know that the 10 Tors get their forecasts from the Met Office Mr
Hand. They are a lot more sensible than anyone that ventures onto such
a dangerous place as Dartmoor armed with a forecast from someone who
freely admits that their forecasting is a hobby. You are mixed up with
no-one else. No-one else here would try to reveal my personal details
(which were never hidden), as a weapon. I repeat points when I don't
get answers, but get questions in return instead, that are simply
designed to deflect.

Me; you get what you see. I'll challenge anyone who I see as going
beyond what is possible and not providing evidence that what they are
doing is reasonable. Any forecasting I've done is analysed, dissected,
judged correct, or not and then added to a very public record showing
the percentage success. Exactly what you should be doing.

You; so typical of Internet "forecasters" who can't back their hunches
and hate being challenged - to the point where they will stoop to some
very underhand tactics to try to discredit the challenger. Scratch the
surface of such people and something very unpleasant can crawl out.

Off to warmer climes for a few weeks. In the meantime, enjoy being
what others have described you as.........: "smug from Haytor". *))

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:25:02 -0700 (PDT), smallbabe
wrote:

Off to warmer climes for a few weeks.

Good. Don't hurry back.


--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. http://www.sandrila.co.uk/

On Apr 1, 8:05*pm, Paul Herber
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:25:02 -0700 (PDT), smallbabe

wrote:
Off to warmer climes for a few weeks.

Good. Don't hurry back.

--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. *http://www.sandrila.co.uk/* * * * *

Well, I never anticipated that response, whoever you are.

In article
,
smallbabe wrote:

I know that the 10 Tors get their forecasts from the Met Office Mr
Hand. They are a lot more sensible than anyone that ventures onto such
a dangerous place as Dartmoor armed with a forecast from someone who
freely admits that their forecasting is a hobby. You are mixed up with
no-one else. No-one else here would try to reveal my personal details
(which were never hidden), as a weapon. I repeat points when I don't
get answers, but get questions in return instead, that are simply
designed to deflect.

You are, of course, familiar with the work Will used to do professionally?

--
Rodney Blackall (retired meteorologist)(BSc, FRMetS, MRI)
Buckingham, ENGLAND
Using Acorn SA-RPC, OS 4.02 with ANT INS and Pluto 3.03j

On Apr 1, 7:25*pm, smallbabe wrote:
On Apr 1, 5:27*pm, "Will Hand" wrote:





Graham P Davis wrote:
smallbabe wrote:

Well, *that's highly typical of the exterior hiding something very
different within, Mr. Hand.

Well done, Paul. Replying to Lawrence's post and calling him Mr Hand.

This has happened before - him mixing me up with someone else. And repeating
his same point ad-infinitum. He has not responded yet to my question of how
does one verify Dartmoor forecasts of snow, hail, sleet, wind speed and
visibility when there are no observations above 400m asl? Nor has he
responded to my assertion that if people did not find my forecasts useful
they would not tell me so and that is a reasonable way of verifying
usefulness? For a forecaster to get people telling him that his forecasts
make a difference and are useful are probably more valuable and meaningful
actually than a percentage success rate, even if that were possible for
Dartmoor. I do take Paul's point that my forecasts are not measured
objectively although I do keep track myself to learn from mistakes but what
is the accuracy of professional forecast providers? I also point out that my
forecasts clearly have a disclaimer and now that the MetO are producing
Dartmoor forecasts I will be pointing my readers to those for daily updates
and for key decision making. You may also note Paul that the Ten Tors will
be getting their forecasts from the MetO so don't worry, the good folk of
Dartmoor do know the difference between a heads-up once a week and a
'proper' forecast service. OK I guess everyone has had enough of this, so
have I, Paul has made his point (5 times) and I don't think we are going to
get any further so that's it from me. I have another weekly update to start
preparing :-)

Cheers,

Will
--

I know that the 10 Tors get their forecasts from the Met Office Mr
Hand. They are a lot more sensible than anyone that ventures onto such
a dangerous place as Dartmoor armed with a forecast from someone who
freely admits that their forecasting is a hobby. You are mixed up with
no-one else. No-one else here would try to reveal my personal details
(which were never hidden), as a weapon. I repeat points when I don't
get answers, but get questions in return instead, that are simply
designed to deflect.

Me; you get what you see. I'll challenge anyone who I see as going
beyond what is possible and not providing evidence that what they are
doing is reasonable. Any forecasting I've done is analysed, dissected,
judged correct, or not and then added to a very public record showing
the percentage success. Exactly what you should be doing.

You; so typical of Internet "forecasters" who can't back their hunches
and hate being challenged - to the point where they will stoop to some
very underhand tactics to try to discredit the challenger. Scratch the
surface of such people and something very unpleasant can crawl out.

Off to warmer climes for a few weeks. In the meantime, enjoy being
what others have described you as.........: "smug from Haytor". *))- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As a psychiatrist might remark to a colleague, "There's enough
there for an entire symposium". And as for you, you couldn't forecast
the time of tomorrow's sunrise if it weren't on GFS T+240. Or you
could Phone A Friend, if you have one. Off you go, and repent of your
sheer breathtaking awfulness.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey