I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:
I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

In article
,
Len Wood writes:
snip
I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Yes, that annoyed me too. Meteorologists these days seem mostly to have
degrees in physics rather than geography, which may help to explain it.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

John Hall wrote:

In article
,
Len Wood writes:
snip
I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Yes, that annoyed me too. Meteorologists these days seem mostly to have
degrees in physics rather than geography, which may help to explain it.

The science of meteorology is primarily a branch of physics with a lot of
mathematics thrown in for good measure. It's not a branch of geography. Some
aspects of climatology, though, are very closely linked to geography. It's not
easy to draw sharp dividing lines.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.

On Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 20:32, John Hall scribbled:

Yes, that annoyed me too. Meteorologists these days seem mostly to have
degrees in physics rather than geography, which may help to explain it.

"These days"? It was the same fifty years ago. Geography is useful but
maths, physics and chemistry is what has always been essential.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK. E-mail: newsman not newsboy
"I wear the cheese. It does not wear me."

On 26 Jan, 20:14, Len Wood wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:

I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

mmm. . .
Isn't most of the N. Atlantic warm because of the Gulf Stream / N.
Atlantic Drift?

Of course the N. Atlantic Drift & prevailing westerly winds are so
interlinked it is really the combination which keeps us mild. (Not
today though)

Didn't see the programme, so can't comment further!

Graham
Penzance - soon be Summer!

In article
,
Graham Easterling writes:
On 26 Jan, 20:14, Len Wood wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:

I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

mmm. . .
Isn't most of the N. Atlantic warm because of the Gulf Stream / N.
Atlantic Drift?

Of course the N. Atlantic Drift & prevailing westerly winds are so
interlinked it is really the combination which keeps us mild. (Not
today though)

Didn't see the programme, so can't comment further!

The difference in temperature at our latitude between the continental
interiors and the oceans is surely much larger than the difference
between ocean with a warm current (roughly 10C) and ocean with a cold
current (roughly 0C). The trouble is that the interlinking of prevailing
winds and ocean currents is such that I don't think there's anywhere at
our latitude where the prevailing wind is onshore from an ocean with a
cold current, so that there aren't any direct comparisons that can be
made to help establish the relatuve importance of the two factors.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 26 Jan, 20:51, John Hall wrote:
In article
,
*Graham Easterling writes:





On 26 Jan, 20:14, Len Wood wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:

I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

mmm. . .
Isn't most of the N. Atlantic warm because of the Gulf Stream / N.
Atlantic Drift?

Of course the N. Atlantic Drift & prevailing westerly winds are so
interlinked it is really the combination which keeps us mild. (Not
today though)

Didn't see the programme, so can't comment further!

The difference in temperature at our latitude between the continental
interiors and the oceans is surely much larger than the difference
between ocean with a warm current (roughly 10C) and ocean with a cold
current (roughly 0C).

Yes, I would agree. The ocean has a moderating effect on climate
irrespective of the currents.

The trouble is that the interlinking of prevailing
winds and ocean currents is such that I don't think there's anywhere at
our latitude where the prevailing wind is onshore from an ocean with a
cold current, so that there aren't any direct comparisons that can be
made to help establish the relatuve importance of the two factors.

I'd agree with that as well. But, if we compare Cornwall with say
Oxfordshire, the temperature range is much less, due to the oceanic
influence, but the difference is almost entirely down to the mild
Cornish winters.
From 1977 to 1990 I lived in Wiltshire (near Swindon) and whilst
winter temperature were several degrees lower than Cornwall, the
average Summer temperatures were very similar (though of course the
diurnal range was greater). I think this indicates the effect of the N
Atlantic Drift. Certainly, the effect is very marked once you get up
to the Scottish Islands.

It's an interesting area, prevailing winds, currents & SSTs, and I
think to rule 1 element out is extremely rash.

Graham (Geography degree as it happens! )
Penzance

On Jan 26, 9:49*pm, Graham Easterling
wrote:
On 26 Jan, 20:51, John Hall wrote:





In article
,
*Graham Easterling writes:

On 26 Jan, 20:14, Len Wood wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:

I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

mmm. . .
Isn't most of the N. Atlantic warm because of the Gulf Stream / N.
Atlantic Drift?

Of course the N. Atlantic Drift & prevailing westerly winds are so
interlinked it is really the combination which keeps us mild. (Not
today though)

Didn't see the programme, so can't comment further!

The difference in temperature at our latitude between the continental
interiors and the oceans is surely much larger than the difference
between ocean with a warm current (roughly 10C) and ocean with a cold
current (roughly 0C).

Yes, I would agree. The ocean has a moderating effect on climate
irrespective of the currents.

The trouble is that the interlinking of prevailing
winds and ocean currents is such that I don't think there's anywhere at
our latitude where the prevailing wind is onshore from an ocean with a
cold current, so that there aren't any direct comparisons that can be
made to help establish the relatuve importance of the two factors.

I'd agree with that as well. But, if we compare Cornwall with say
Oxfordshire, the temperature range is much less, due to the oceanic
influence, but the difference is almost entirely down to the mild
Cornish winters.
From 1977 to 1990 I lived in Wiltshire (near Swindon) and whilst
winter temperature were several degrees lower than Cornwall, the
average Summer temperatures were very similar (though of course the
diurnal range was greater). I think this indicates the effect of the N
Atlantic Drift. Certainly, the effect is very marked once you get up
to the Scottish Islands.

It's an interesting area, prevailing winds, currents & SSTs, and I
think to rule 1 element out is extremely rash.

Graham (Geography degree as it happens! )
Penzance- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are not surely claiming Graham that it is milder in Cornwall
compared with Swindon in winter because of the N.Atlantic drift?!
It is simply because of Cornwall's proximity to the N.Atlantic and is
surrounded by sea that it is milder!

No one is ruling out all contributions as I have pointed out in my
above post.
It is just a matter of which are the major ones.

Len (Physics degree as it happens! That is, less arm waving type
reasoning)

On Jan 26, 8:36*pm, Graham Easterling
wrote:
On 26 Jan, 20:14, Len Wood wrote:





On Jan 25, 4:31*pm, Nicholas wrote:

I have just seen it advertised by Channel 4 that they are showing a
programme called Britain's Big Freeze tonight at 8pm. Channel 4 did
exactly the same thing last year despite last winter been only
slightly below average temperatures.
I think they are exaggering this winter a bit, even though it has been
cold, where I live has escaped most of the snow although many other
parts of the country haven't.
It should be worth watching and recording. However. if it is a similar
programme to last year it may not be worth recording as I think
Channel 4 exaggerated last year's winter.

Nicholas

Quite a good programme with some nice pics from previous severe
winters.

Alex Hill was raising the excuse for dodgy seasonal forecasts on
probabilities. Nice cop out. Of little interest to the public of
course. Perhaps they should only issue a forecast in that case, if the
probabilty is going to be greater than 80% for warm/cold , or wet/dry.

I have another gripe:
Sarah Davies (Met Office) churned out the old chestnut:
'Britian is kept warm most winters because we have the Gulf
Stream....so for our latitude we are quite mild compared with the rest
of the world'.
Mostly untrue.

Britain is kept warm because we are downwind of the relatively warm N.
Atlantic. Labrador at the same lat. on other side of the ocean is
downwind of the cold N. American continent.
It is the prevailing westerly winds that keep us warm. The Gulf Stream
plays only a small part in comparison.

Len Wood
Wembury, SW Devon

mmm. . .
Isn't most of the N. Atlantic warm because of the Gulf Stream / N.
Atlantic Drift?

Of course the N. Atlantic Drift & prevailing westerly winds are so
interlinked it is really the combination which keeps us mild. (Not
today though)

Didn't see the programme, so can't comment further!

Graham
Penzance - soon be Summer!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Gulf stream does play a small role, but it is the thermal inertia
of the upwind ocean in winter that is the major factor.
A paper was published in the QJ of the Roy Met Soc a few years ago
where some bods had done some sums:

Three processes (Seager et al. 2002)
contribute to the east-west symmetry
of temperature (15-20 deg.C in winter):

Half of the heat transport (accounting for about 9 deg.C)
is by the atmosphere due to orographic forcing by the Rockies.
This influences the position of the Icelandic Low
and hence our mild westerlies.
2) Seasonal and local release of heat previously stored
by the ocean accounts for about 8 deg.C.
3) Northward heat transport by the ocean (ie Gulf stream)
accounts for only about 3 deg.C.

Len
Wembury, SW Devon