In article
,
Bonos Ego writes:
On Jun 6, 8:45*pm, "David Haggas" wrote:
"Anne Burgess" wrote in message

... The south east of
England with its more continental (more interesting?)
climate invariably features heavily in this 'story' not necessarily
because of bias towards that region but because it generally has more
extremes.
David (N.Yorks)

Now that is a very interesting assertion. Not the one that says that is
why the south-east of England/Britain features more heavily in the
'story', *but the assertion that that area has 'more extremes'.

What evidence can you provide to justify that assertion?

Anne

More continental influence, The highest temperatures in summer, the most
thunderstorm activity (this evening is an example) the most sun hours, the
most disruptive snowfall and occasionally some rather high winds.

David

Most of those are rather debatable,


Not according to the times online
http://property.timesonline.co.uk/to...erty/buying_an
d_selling/article2875491.ece

Sunniest Weymouth, Dorset

The south coast is usually the sunniest part of the country (if you
exclude the Channel Islands) in terms of annual totals. I think it's
pretty close between Weymouth (SW) and Eastbourne (SE).


Wettest Seathwaite, Cumbria

Yep.

Driest St Osyth, Essex

Which is in the SE.

Warmest Scilly Isles

Coldest Braemar, Scotland

Those are the warmest and coldest averaged over the year as a whole,
which is rather different. Because the Scillies are surrounded by sea,
they never have really hot days. (Their mild winters are what brings the
annual average up.) The highest maxima recorded have been in the SE.

It's true that the lowest values - both maxima and minima - have been
recorded in sheltered Scottish places like Braemar.


Stormiest Thetford to Stoke-on-Trent

By stormiest do you mean thunderstorms? I think it's true that the east
Midlands just shades it over the SE.

Windiest Cornwall/west coast

Yep, and especially the Western and Northern Isles.

Foggiest Dartmoor, Devon

I think they are confusing low cloud with fog, but I'm not sure where
the foggiest place would be.

Most snow Tomintoul, Scotland

Probably. I don't think the SE has a claim to the heaviest snowfalls.
--
John Hall

"I don't even butter my bread; I consider that cooking."
Katherine Cebrian

"John Hall" wrote in message
...
Foggiest Dartmoor, Devon

I think they are confusing low cloud with fog, but I'm not sure where
the foggiest place would be.

Well when you are in the stuff for days on end (often with drizzle), it is
fog irrespective of the cause!

Will (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
--

"David Allan" wrote in message
...
I agree with you entirely Tudor, that there are other points which could be
raised about the presentation of weather information, and a lack of time is
definately one as is the over-use of cliches.

...etc

The best solution is to tune in to your local BBC station when a detailed
forecast for the following day will be given for your particular area. Radio
Northampton has such a forecast at about 5.20pm each weekday, when the Look
East (TV) presenter gives a 'personalised' forecast for the county. This is
repeated for each county (or rather each local radio station) in the area in
turn between 5 and 5.30. I'm not sure, but I expect the same thing is done
throughout the country. The weather in this country (these countries, sorry
Anne) is too damned variable to be generalised.

jim, Northampton

On Jun 6, 7:00*pm, Tudor Hughes wrote:
On Jun 6, 11:59*am, "David Haggas" wrote:





"Anne Burgess" wrote in message

...

I agree with you 100%, David, but especially the following.

Another area of confusion is trying to work out whether the general
weather information being given is for England or the UK as a whole. It
isn't always clear when the presenter refers to the 'far north' or
'across northern areas' whether he (or she) is referring to northern
England or Scotland. If they made a point of suffixing 'England' or
'Scotland', that would solve the problem, but they all too often don't
bother, so the weather predictions become meaningless.
Regards... David Allan (Tyne & Wear).

Some of them (not only weather forecasters) need to remember that they're
not the London Broadcasting Corporation, or the English Broadcasting
Corporation.

Referring to 'the north' or 'the north-east' or 'the north-west' is at
best meaningless and at worst misleading. There isn't quite the same
problem with 'the south' and 'the south-east' because they generally refer
to those parts of Britain, and that's fair enough when it's the British
Broadcasting Corporation.

It's also not unusual for entire chunks of the country to be missed out
entirely. "And now for Scotland. There will be rain in the west and sunny
spells in the south." Then I wait in vain to hear anything about the
north-east of Scotland, where I live, but apparently there isn't going to
be any weather here at all, because it isn't mentioned.

Anne

...But the BBC requires a dumbed down weather headline and for the presenter
to create a story, not a fact-based region by region scientific analysis -
that would be considered far too boring by media types.

The south east of England with its more continental (more interesting?)
climate invariably features heavily in this 'story' not necessarily because
of bias towards that region but because it generally has more extremes.

David (N.Yorks)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

* * *I agree about the dumbed-down nature of the presentations. *They
are a disgrace to Radio 4 which likes to call itself Britain's premier
speech station, which in most ways it is except for the present
subject.
* * *As to the southeast, I cannot agree that it dominates in the way
that you say or for the reason you give. *There have even been
occasions when the SE has been more or less ignored when the more
notable weather is happening elsewhere, as it often does. *The
offenders are usually Schafernaker (who could not organise a ****-up
in a brewery and should never be allowed anywhere near a microphone)
or the robotic Tobyn, who gives the impression of not quite
understanding what she's saying, like G Dubya or a child in a Nativity
play.
* * * It would be far better if the forecast were written out in
Exeter and sent to the BBC to be read out by an announcer. *The
presenters we have add nothing and in some cases detract from the
forecast. *There are exceptions of course, notably Peter Gibbs and
Nick Miller.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've just listened to the 0030 forecast on R4. This time it was
Wales' turn to be left out. No mention was made of it. This was
Philip Avery. Well done, Phil. It's only a small country after all,
about the size of Wales.
There is no time pressure at this time of night except that
arbitrarily imposed by the BBC. The programme could easily last 5
minutes with a useful report on the day's weather, as was once the
case, with the likes of Bob Pritchard. R4, after all, is for
intelligent people. The sooner the Met Office ditches the BBC the
better but the problem is they have nowhere better to go and the BBC
pays them handsomely, which is what it is all about, isn't it.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

On Jun 6, 10:07*pm, "Will Hand" wrote:
"John Hall" wrote in message

...

Foggiest Dartmoor, Devon

I think they are confusing low cloud with fog, but I'm not sure where
the foggiest place would be.

Well when you are in the stuff for days on end (often with drizzle), it is
fog irrespective of the cause!

Will (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
--

Quite right Will. Cloud is fog if you are standing with your head in
it. Dartmoor probably does qualify as the foggiest area if you count
the number of people living there. Not just the hill farmers. Poor
sods. There is Princetown for a start at 2000 ft.

Len Wood , Wembury where the rain has just started. 0903 BST.

In article C6UOn.63763$hx1.61011@hurricane,
Will Hand writes:

"John Hall" wrote in message news:1Ea5jqCIhA
...
Foggiest Dartmoor, Devon

I think they are confusing low cloud with fog, but I'm not sure where
the foggiest place would be.

Well when you are in the stuff for days on end (often with drizzle), it
is fog irrespective of the cause!

OK, but I still wouldn't expect Dartmoor to come top. Surely some high
altitude stations in North Wales, the Pennines and the Highlands must
have more?
--
John Hall

"I don't even butter my bread; I consider that cooking."
Katherine Cebrian

Quite right Will. Cloud is fog if you are standing with your
head in
it. Dartmoor probably does qualify as the foggiest area if you
count
the number of people living there. Not just the hill farmers.
Poor
sods. There is Princetown for a start at 2000 ft.
Len Wood

By that logic, Cairn Gorm wouldn't be the windiest place in
Britain. Nor would any mountain summit or lighthouse, come to
that. So where would be?

Also how would you do the calculation? Would 24 hours of fog on
Dartmoor count as less foggy than one minute of fog in London?
There are far more than 24x60 times the number of people in
London than there are on Dartmoor.

Anne

On Jun 7, 10:43*am, "Anne Burgess"
wrote:
Quite right Will. Cloud is fog if you are standing with your
head in
it. Dartmoor probably does qualify as the foggiest area if you
count
the number of people living there. Not just the hill farmers.
Poor
sods. There is Princetown for a start at 2000 ft.
Len Wood

By that logic, Cairn Gorm wouldn't be the windiest place in
Britain. Nor would any mountain summit or lighthouse, come to
that. So where would be?

Also how would you do the calculation? Would 24 hours of fog on
Dartmoor count as less foggy than one minute of fog in London?
There are far more than 24x60 times the number of people in
London than there are on Dartmoor.

Anne

OK Anne,
I was just addressing the issue of when is it fog or just high ground
shrouded in cloud?
It is always going to be called cloud unless you are walking about in
it. So fog is about visibility, which involves the human eye.
However, as good scientists we should be referring to the formation
method. Here we are talking about orographic fog, which I would
suggest is more common than radiation fog or even advection fog,
simply because low cloud is more ubiquitous than these.
Now, does the average person on the ground care about the way it has
been formed. I think not, and the mass media wants as usual to keep
things simple.

There are certainly quite a few more people in London than there are
on Dartmoor, for which we can be eternally grateful.
I agree it sounds a bit crazy putting a human element into
meteorological data. But it is of interest in impact studies.

Len

I was just addressing the issue of when is it fog or just high
ground
shrouded in cloud?
Ah. That isn't how it came over to me.

It is always going to be called cloud unless you are walking
about in
it. So fog is about visibility, which involves the human eye.
Yes.

However, as good scientists we should be referring to the
formation
method.
Yes, but I don't think it is necessary to specify the method of
formation of the fog in the general weather forecast.

Here we are talking about orographic fog, which I would
suggest is more common than radiation fog or even advection
fog,
simply because low cloud is more ubiquitous than these.
I agree with that.

Now, does the average person on the ground care about the way
it has
been formed. I think not, and the mass media wants as usual to
keep
things simple.
I agree that most people are not too bothered about why
visibility is poor, so calling it all fog is fine from that
point of view.

There are certainly quite a few more people in London than
there are
on Dartmoor, for which we can be eternally grateful.
I agree it sounds a bit crazy putting a human element into
meteorological data. But it is of interest in impact studies.
Indeed, and I am sure that impact studies have their place in
(social) science.

But I don't think that the number of people who are affected by
a particular piece of weather should be a major consideration of
the Met Office weather forecast on the BBC, or of climate record
data. Which is, I think, where we came in?

Anne

"Len Wood" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 10:43 am, "Anne Burgess"
wrote:
Quite right Will. Cloud is fog if you are standing with your
head in
it. Dartmoor probably does qualify as the foggiest area if you
count
the number of people living there. Not just the hill farmers.
Poor
sods. There is Princetown for a start at 2000 ft.
Len Wood

By that logic, Cairn Gorm wouldn't be the windiest place in
Britain. Nor would any mountain summit or lighthouse, come to
that. So where would be?

Also how would you do the calculation? Would 24 hours of fog on
Dartmoor count as less foggy than one minute of fog in London?
There are far more than 24x60 times the number of people in
London than there are on Dartmoor.

Anne

OK Anne,
I was just addressing the issue of when is it fog or just high ground
shrouded in cloud?
It is always going to be called cloud unless you are walking about in
it. So fog is about visibility, which involves the human eye.
However, as good scientists we should be referring to the formation
method. Here we are talking about orographic fog, which I would
suggest is more common than radiation fog or even advection fog,
simply because low cloud is more ubiquitous than these.
Now, does the average person on the ground care about the way it has
been formed. I think not, and the mass media wants as usual to keep
things simple.

There are certainly quite a few more people in London than there are
on Dartmoor, for which we can be eternally grateful.
I agree it sounds a bit crazy putting a human element into
meteorological data. But it is of interest in impact studies.

Len
=========

Today we have had cloud and outbreaks of heavy rain and guess what ....
at 1700 it is thick fog and still raining. Dartmoor does get a lot of fog
due to its proximity to airmasses with high specific humidity straight off
the Atlantic.

PS Len, Princetown is at 1400 feet not 2000 feet, still plenty high enough
to get guaranteed decent snow in winter and pleasant cool summers and a bit
of fog from time to time grin.

Of course that is a million miles from BBC TV Weather Centre weather :-)

Will (A happy Dartmoor resident)
--