http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing summer
sea ice."


--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl
Sagan
Another Brick in The Wall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP38eq-ywc

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing summer
sea ice."

--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. *E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl
Sagan
Another Brick in The Wall:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP38eq-ywc

An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...

CK

On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 08:50, Natsman scribbled:

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing summer
sea ice."


An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...


Climate may be cyclical, but the cyclical trend should have been downwards
from around 1940 to 1990 and global temperatures should still be lower
than they were in the 40s.

Arctic ice, at the time of minimum extent, is at least 40% less than it was
forty to fifty years ago and the thickness has halved. I'm still sticking to
the forecast I made about half-a-dozen years ago that the ice will be gone
by 2020.

Deniers can't look over the wrong shoulder because they'd never be able to
see past the massive chips on both. That's assuming they could take their
heads out of the sand for long enough.

--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl
Sagan

On Sep 16, 8:17*am, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing summer
sea ice."

--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. *E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl
Sagan
Another Brick in The Wall:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP38eq-ywc

Heh, unfortunately, Arctic sea ice took one of those unexpected dips
yesterday and achieved a new 2010 low! The difficulties of calling the
low eh? To their credit, the NSIDC said "Arctic sea ice *appears* to
have reached its annual minimum extent on 10 September." It hadn't.
*))

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
...
On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 08:50, Natsman scribbled:

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing
summer
sea ice."


An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...


Climate may be cyclical, but the cyclical trend should have been downwards
from around 1940 to 1990 and global temperatures should still be lower
than they were in the 40s.

Arctic ice, at the time of minimum extent, is at least 40% less than it
was
forty to fifty years ago and the thickness has halved. I'm still sticking
to
the forecast I made about half-a-dozen years ago that the ice will be gone
by 2020.

Deniers can't look over the wrong shoulder because they'd never be able to
see past the massive chips on both. That's assuming they could take their
heads out of the sand for long enough.

--

As you made an accusation that people who are sceptical of the AGW disaster
have a chip on their shoulder I thinks its appropriate that that is replied
to. If anything its my years of experience with the left in this country
that has driven my cynicsm. Why? Because there is an infantile disorder that
seems to afflict the privaledged people of affluent countries where there no
matter what hate the west and what it's acheived. Its all Geaorge Bush's
fault and big greedy America aided and abbetted by England and Israel . No
matter what in this left-wing mind set of self hatred western civilisation
is always the worst thing that's ever happened to this planet. In the
seventies when for a while the climate seemed to measure and feel like it
was cooling it was the fault of big oil and the affluent west now it has
warmed which by the way no has denied; then its the fault of bid oil and the
west. Rationality and truth is the first victim off self haters. Off course
Gore and George Soros opportunists who have already made millions upon
millions selling or forcing people to by useless technology are aided and
supported by what Lenin used to call usefull idiots AKA the self hateing
left wing..

Now Graham you say the deniers have a chip on their shoulders and I say my
arse they do. It's the enviro lefts that have the chip for the reasons I've
outlined.

On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 17:27, Dawlish scribbled:

On Sep 16, 8:17 am, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing summer
sea ice."


Heh, unfortunately, Arctic sea ice took one of those unexpected dips
yesterday and achieved a new 2010 low! The difficulties of calling the
low eh? To their credit, the NSIDC said "Arctic sea ice *appears* to
have reached its annual minimum extent on 10 September." It hadn't.
*))

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

Depends which graph you use and whether you go by extent or area. I was
going by this one -
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.recent.arctic.png -
and I was thinking about calling the minimum this morning as we'd had a
couple of days when the graph was rising. Also, the open areas within the
ice were freezing over and ice was beginning to advance down the E Greenland
coast, but was beaten to the punch by NSIDC. However, that would have been a
minimum around the 13th rather than the 10th. I see it's gone up again today
so I think that's probably it for this year.

--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl
Sagan

On Sep 16, 6:33*pm, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:
"Graham P Davis" wrote in ...





On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 08:50, Natsman scribbled:

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing
summer
sea ice."

An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. *The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. *You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. *Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. *Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...

Climate may be cyclical, but the cyclical trend should have been downwards
from *around 1940 to 1990 *and global temperatures should still be lower
than they were in the 40s.

Arctic ice, at the time of minimum extent, is at least 40% less than it
was
forty to fifty years ago and the thickness has halved. I'm still sticking
to
the forecast I made about half-a-dozen years ago that the ice will be gone
by 2020.

Deniers can't look over the wrong shoulder because they'd never be able to
see past the massive chips on both. That's assuming they could take their
heads out of the sand for long enough.

--

As you made an accusation that people who are sceptical of the AGW disaster
have a chip on their shoulder I thinks its appropriate *that that is replied
to. *If anything its my years of experience with the left in this country
that has driven my cynicsm. Why? Because there is an infantile disorder that
seems to afflict the privaledged people of affluent countries where there no
matter what hate the west and what it's acheived. Its all Geaorge Bush's
fault and big greedy America aided and abbetted by England and Israel . No
matter what in this left-wing mind set of self hatred *western civilisation
is always the worst thing that's ever happened to this planet. *In the
seventies when for a while the climate seemed to measure and feel like it
was cooling it was the fault of big oil and the affluent west now it has
warmed which by the way no has denied; then its the fault of bid oil and the
west. *Rationality and truth is the first victim off self haters. Off course
Gore and George Soros opportunists who have already made millions upon
millions selling or forcing people to by useless technology are aided and
supported by what Lenin used to call usefull idiots AKA the self hateing
left wing..

Now Graham you say the deniers have a chip on their shoulders and I say my
arse they do. It's the enviro lefts that have the chip for the reasons I've
outlined.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A politically inspired rant. Nothing more. I think the phrase, IIRC is
"safely ignored", as It is definitely "off course".

"Dawlish" wrote in message
...
On Sep 16, 6:33 pm, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:
"Graham P Davis" wrote in
...





On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 08:50, Natsman scribbled:

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on
10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the
satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing
summer
sea ice."

An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...

Climate may be cyclical, but the cyclical trend should have been
downwards
from around 1940 to 1990 and global temperatures should still be lower
than they were in the 40s.

Arctic ice, at the time of minimum extent, is at least 40% less than it
was
forty to fifty years ago and the thickness has halved. I'm still
sticking
to
the forecast I made about half-a-dozen years ago that the ice will be
gone
by 2020.

Deniers can't look over the wrong shoulder because they'd never be able
to
see past the massive chips on both. That's assuming they could take
their
heads out of the sand for long enough.

--

As you made an accusation that people who are sceptical of the AGW
disaster
have a chip on their shoulder I thinks its appropriate that that is
replied
to. If anything its my years of experience with the left in this country
that has driven my cynicsm. Why? Because there is an infantile disorder
that
seems to afflict the privaledged people of affluent countries where there
no
matter what hate the west and what it's acheived. Its all Geaorge Bush's
fault and big greedy America aided and abbetted by England and Israel . No
matter what in this left-wing mind set of self hatred western civilisation
is always the worst thing that's ever happened to this planet. In the
seventies when for a while the climate seemed to measure and feel like it
was cooling it was the fault of big oil and the affluent west now it has
warmed which by the way no has denied; then its the fault of bid oil and
the
west. Rationality and truth is the first victim off self haters. Off
course
Gore and George Soros opportunists who have already made millions upon
millions selling or forcing people to by useless technology are aided and
supported by what Lenin used to call usefull idiots AKA the self hateing
left wing..

Now Graham you say the deniers have a chip on their shoulders and I say my
arse they do. It's the enviro lefts that have the chip for the reasons
I've
outlined.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A politically inspired rant. Nothing more. I think the phrase, IIRC is
"safely ignored", as It is definitely "off course".


Actually I think its a very valid point: its almost impossible to tease out
poltical and religious beliefs from how facts are interpreted. When I was
many moons ago on the left with the Worker Revolutionary Party (not many
workers I have to say) and those nutty thespians the Redgraves all led by
Comrade (Ilove a young 'un) Healy the party was filled with graduates with
many people of science who detested what humanity had achieved in Europe
and America with the USA taking all the plaudits for everything that was
wrong in the world. I tolerated albeit on the periphery, all this distorted
hateful view of history for many years then one day the scales fell from my
eyes. So when I see anything that these left loons support I then run like
hell.

I'd wager the CRU was stuffed with those radical types, what a perfect way
to attack the west and captitalism and get well paid for it, prove that our
exponential improvement in living standards is all at the cost of destroying
our planet. Oh the guilt.

By the way Dullish what alternative energy sources do you employ?

"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
...
On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 17:27, Dawlish scribbled:

On Sep 16, 8:17 am, Graham P Davis wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on 10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing
summer
sea ice."


Heh, unfortunately, Arctic sea ice took one of those unexpected dips
yesterday and achieved a new 2010 low! The difficulties of calling the
low eh? To their credit, the NSIDC said "Arctic sea ice *appears* to
have reached its annual minimum extent on 10 September." It hadn't.
*))

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

Depends which graph you use and whether you go by extent or area. I was
going by this one -
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.recent.arctic.png
-
and I was thinking about calling the minimum this morning as we'd had a
couple of days when the graph was rising. Also, the open areas within the
ice were freezing over and ice was beginning to advance down the E
Greenland
coast, but was beaten to the punch by NSIDC. However, that would have been
a
minimum around the 13th rather than the 10th. I see it's gone up again
today
so I think that's probably it for this year.

--
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. E-mail: "newsman", not "newsboy".
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." -
Carl
Sagan


Hey Graham as an ardent confirmed advocate of the folly of man and the
disaster of AGW could you advise me on the alternative energy sources that
you use? Not to late to learn.

On 16/09/2010 21:14, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 16, 6:33 pm, "Lawrence wrote:
"Graham P wrote in
...





On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 08:50, Natsman scribbled:

On 16 Sep, 09:17, Graham P wrote:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/091510.html

"Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual minimum extent on
10
September. The minimum ice extent was the third-lowest in the
satellite
record, after 2007 and 2008, and continues the trend of decreasing
summer
sea ice."

An arrested trend - one step forward, two steps back. The melting
season will probably start later each year, and the melt season will
be shorter. Ice will accumulate, it'll get colder. You can't odds
that, no matter how hard you try. Climate is cyclical, after the
warm, the cold. Alarmists are looking over the wrong shoulder...

Climate may be cyclical, but the cyclical trend should have been
downwards
from around 1940 to 1990 and global temperatures should still be lower
than they were in the 40s.

Arctic ice, at the time of minimum extent, is at least 40% less than it
was
forty to fifty years ago and the thickness has halved. I'm still
sticking
to
the forecast I made about half-a-dozen years ago that the ice will be
gone
by 2020.

Deniers can't look over the wrong shoulder because they'd never be able
to
see past the massive chips on both. That's assuming they could take
their
heads out of the sand for long enough.

--

As you made an accusation that people who are sceptical of the AGW
disaster
have a chip on their shoulder I thinks its appropriate that that is
replied
to. If anything its my years of experience with the left in this country
that has driven my cynicsm. Why? Because there is an infantile disorder
that
seems to afflict the privaledged people of affluent countries where there
no
matter what hate the west and what it's acheived. Its all Geaorge Bush's
fault and big greedy America aided and abbetted by England and Israel . No
matter what in this left-wing mind set of self hatred western civilisation
is always the worst thing that's ever happened to this planet. In the
seventies when for a while the climate seemed to measure and feel like it
was cooling it was the fault of big oil and the affluent west now it has
warmed which by the way no has denied; then its the fault of bid oil and
the
west. Rationality and truth is the first victim off self haters. Off
course
Gore and George Soros opportunists who have already made millions upon
millions selling or forcing people to by useless technology are aided and
supported by what Lenin used to call usefull idiots AKA the self hateing
left wing..

Now Graham you say the deniers have a chip on their shoulders and I say my
arse they do. It's the enviro lefts that have the chip for the reasons
I've
outlined.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A politically inspired rant. Nothing more. I think the phrase, IIRC is
"safely ignored", as It is definitely "off course".


Actually I think its a very valid point: its almost impossible to tease out
poltical and religious beliefs from how facts are interpreted. When I was
many moons ago on the left with the Worker Revolutionary Party (not many
workers I have to say) and those nutty thespians the Redgraves all led by
Comrade (Ilove a young 'un) Healy the party was filled with graduates with
many people of science who detested what humanity had achieved in Europe
and America with the USA taking all the plaudits for everything that was
wrong in the world. I tolerated albeit on the periphery, all this distorted
hateful view of history for many years then one day the scales fell from my
eyes. So when I see anything that these left loons support I then run like
hell.

I'd wager the CRU was stuffed with those radical types, what a perfect way
to attack the west and captitalism and get well paid for it, prove that our
exponential improvement in living standards is all at the cost of destroying
our planet. Oh the guilt.

By the way Dullish what alternative energy sources do you employ?


Will appears very energetic - is he powered by radon gas?