Sunday 26th December 2010


Meteosat 8 satellite picture from Ferdinand Valk's site at 12.00 UTC
http://www.fvalk.com/images/Day_image/MSG-1200-EUR.jpg

Meteosat MSG-2 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.00 UTC
http://www.woksat.info/etcsl26m/sl26-msg-1200-uk.html

NOAA 19 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.41 UTC
http://www.woksat.info/etcsl26/sl26-1241-b-uk.html


UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8

Hawarden -11.1°C, Benson -11.2°C, Larkhill -11.3°C, Altnaharra -11.5°C,
Belfast (Aldergrove) and St Angelo -12.3°C, Yeovilton -13.2°C,
Sennybridge -13.3°C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1°C, Hereford -15.8°C,
Pershore -16.2°C, Shobdon -16.5°C.

Stornoway 0.3°C, South Uist and Aberdaron 2.0°C, Tiree 2.1°C, Rosehearty
2.8°C, St Mary's (Scilly) 4.2°C.


UK max. temps on Sunday http://tinyurl.com/34zmqb3

Shobdon and Pershore -6.4°C, Brize Norton -3.3°C, Hawarden and
Topcliffe -2.3°C, Dishforth and Hereford -2.2°C.

Stornoway 5.8°C, Machrihanish and Portland 5.9°C, Milford Haven 6.0°C,
Port Ellen (Islay) and Camborne 6.2°C, Culdrose and St Catherine's Point
6.3°C, Tiree 6.4°C, St Mary's (Scilly) 8.1°C.

OGIMET summary http://tinyurl.com/32bezpe


Rainfall radar http://www.meteox.com/h.aspx?r=&soort=loop24uur&URL or
http://www.raintoday.co.uk/

Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
http://tinyurl.com/39kgtll

Lusa (Skye) and Machrihanish 4 mm, Kirkwall, Stornoway and Port Ellen
(Islay) 5 mm, Belfast (Aldergrove) 6 mm, Ballykelly 8 mm, St Angelo 10
mm, Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.


Location of some UK stations
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/educatio...r_data_uk.html


Colin Youngs
Brussels

On Dec 26, 8:59*pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Sunday 26th December 2010

Meteosat 8 satellite picture from Ferdinand Valk's site at 12.00 UTChttp://www.fvalk.com/images/Day_image/MSG-1200-EUR.jpg

Meteosat MSG-2 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.00 UTChttp://www.woksat.info/etcsl26m/sl26-msg-1200-uk.html

NOAA 19 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.41 UTChttp://www.woksat.info/etcsl26/sl26-1241-b-uk.html

UK min. temps on Saturday night *http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8

Hawarden -11.1 C, *Benson -11.2 C, *Larkhill -11.3 C, *Altnaharra -11.5 C,
Belfast (Aldergrove) and St Angelo -12.3 C, *Yeovilton -13.2 C,
*Sennybridge -13.3 C, *Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, *Hereford -15.8 C,
Pershore -16.2 C, *Shobdon -16.5 C.

Stornoway 0.3 C, *South Uist and Aberdaron 2.0 C, *Tiree 2.1 C, *Rosehearty
2.8 C, *St Mary's (Scilly) 4.2 C.

UK max. temps on Sunday *http://tinyurl.com/34zmqb3

Shobdon and Pershore -6.4 C, *Brize Norton -3.3 C, *Hawarden and
Topcliffe -2.3 C, *Dishforth and Hereford -2.2 C.

Stornoway 5.8 C, *Machrihanish and Portland 5.9 C, *Milford Haven 6.0 C,
Port Ellen (Islay) and Camborne 6.2 C, *Culdrose and St Catherine's Point
6.3 C, *Tiree 6.4 C, *St Mary's (Scilly) 8.1 C.

OGIMET summary * *http://tinyurl.com/32bezpe

Rainfall radar *http://www.meteox.com/h.aspx?r=&soort=loop24uur&URL* orhttp://www.raintoday.co.uk/

Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sundayhttp://tinyurl.com/39kgtll

Lusa (Skye) and Machrihanish 4 mm, *Kirkwall, Stornoway and Port Ellen
(Islay) 5 mm, *Belfast (Aldergrove) 6 mm, *Ballykelly 8 mm, *St Angelo 10
mm, *Wick 11 mm, *Ballypatrick 13 mm, *Castlederg 19 mm.

Location of some UK stationshttp://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/teachers/latest_weather_data_uk...

Colin Youngs
Brussels

Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?

On Dec 26, 8:59 pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Sunday 26th December 2010
snip
UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8
snip
Sennybridge -13.3 C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, Hereford
snip

Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
snip
Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.

[and]

David G wrote:


Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?


.... from the SYNOPs in the 24hr to 1800Z (26th Dec), the minimum
temperature reported was set the *previous* evening (25th) around 21Z;
the temperature rose above zero degC between 06 & 07Z today (26th) and
rain started around 12Z today - quickly becoming occasional moderate. No
doubt the precipitation figure for the 24 hours is composed of a mix of
rainfall between 12 & 18Z and melted snow remaining in the gauge.

We're going to get quite a number of 'anomalous' rainfall data reports
from the many automatic stations dotted about - caution required :-)

Martin.



--
Martin Rowley
Location: West Moors, East Dorset (UK): 17m (56ft) amsl
Lat: 50.82N Long: 01.88W
NGR: SU 082 023
W: booty.org.uk
E:

David G wrote:


UK min. temps on Saturday night *http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8

Hawarden -11.1 C, *Benson -11.2 C, *Larkhill -11.3 C, *Altnaharra -11.5 C,
Belfast (Aldergrove) and St Angelo -12.3 C, *Yeovilton -13.2 C,
*Sennybridge -13.3 C, *Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, *Hereford -15.8 C,
Pershore -16.2 C, *Shobdon -16.5 C.


Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on
Sundayhttp://tinyurl.com/39kgtll

Lusa (Skye) and Machrihanish 4 mm, *Kirkwall, Stornoway and Port Ellen
(Islay) 5 mm, *Belfast (Aldergrove) 6 mm, *Ballykelly 8 mm, *St Angelo 10
mm, *Wick 11 mm, *Ballypatrick 13 mm, *Castlederg 19 mm.


Colin Youngs
Brussels

Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?

Snow from earlier days in the gauge funnel melting plus rain as the thaw set in
during the day. At 1800z it was +3 deg and moderate rain.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.

"Martin Rowley" schreef in bericht
...

: On Dec 26, 8:59 pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
: Sunday 26th December 2010
: UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8
: Sennybridge -13.3 C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C,
: Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
: Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.

: David G wrote:
: Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?

: ... from the SYNOPs in the 24hr to 1800Z (26th Dec), the minimum
: temperature reported was set the *previous* evening (25th) around 21Z;
: the temperature rose above zero degC between 06 & 07Z today (26th) and
: rain started around 12Z today - quickly becoming occasional moderate. No
: doubt the precipitation figure for the 24 hours is composed of a mix of
: rainfall between 12 & 18Z and melted snow remaining in the gauge.
:
: We're going to get quite a number of 'anomalous' rainfall data reports
: from the many automatic stations dotted about - caution required :-)

Yes. I deliberately wrote *reported* rainfall totals. I also intended -
but forgot - to make the point that some were no doubt a mixture of actual
rain and old melting snow and therefore inaccurate and misleading.

Colin Youngs
Brussels

Martin Rowley wrote:

On Dec 26, 8:59 pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Sunday 26th December 2010
snip
UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8
snip
Sennybridge -13.3 C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, Hereford
snip

Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
snip
Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.

[and]

David G wrote:


Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?


... from the SYNOPs in the 24hr to 1800Z (26th Dec), the minimum temperature
reported was set the previous evening (25th) around 21Z; the temperature rose
above zero degC between 06 & 07Z today (26th) and rain started around 12Z
today - quickly becoming occasional moderate. No doubt the precipitation
figure for the 24 hours is composed of a mix of rainfall between 12 & 18Z and
melted snow remaining in the gauge.

We're going to get quite a number of 'anomalous' rainfall data reports from
the many automatic stations dotted about - caution required :-)

Martin.

Do you know how this is treated "officially" Martin? Do the totals as measured
become the "official" record? If so, a day of heavy snow and below zero temps
would go down as a dry day and a day of no precipitation in a thaw might go
down as a wet day. There would also be significant precipitation "loss" on days
of strong wind with heavy snow and below zero temps when very little
accumulates in the funnel. This can have legal implications as "official"
weather measurements are often presented in Court as "fact". It also highlights
the difficulty in comparing recent winter rainfall measurements that rely on
AWS with past rainfall measurements using manual gauges.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.

Norman wrote:
Martin Rowley wrote:

On Dec 26, 8:59 pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Sunday 26th December 2010
snip
UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8
snip
Sennybridge -13.3 C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, Hereford
snip
Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
snip
Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.
[and]

David G wrote:

Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?

... from the SYNOPs in the 24hr to 1800Z (26th Dec), the minimum temperature
reported was set the previous evening (25th) around 21Z; the temperature rose
above zero degC between 06 & 07Z today (26th) and rain started around 12Z
today - quickly becoming occasional moderate. No doubt the precipitation
figure for the 24 hours is composed of a mix of rainfall between 12 & 18Z and
melted snow remaining in the gauge.

We're going to get quite a number of 'anomalous' rainfall data reports from
the many automatic stations dotted about - caution required :-)

Martin.

Do you know how this is treated "officially" Martin? Do the totals as measured
become the "official" record? If so, a day of heavy snow and below zero temps
would go down as a dry day and a day of no precipitation in a thaw might go
down as a wet day. There would also be significant precipitation "loss" on days
of strong wind with heavy snow and below zero temps when very little
accumulates in the funnel. This can have legal implications as "official"
weather measurements are often presented in Court as "fact". It also highlights
the difficulty in comparing recent winter rainfall measurements that rely on
AWS with past rainfall measurements using manual gauges.

.... I wish I knew Norman but I suspect such data don't influence the
permanent record as much as you might think. What I do know is that the
observations are just one (small) part of the mix which go to making up
the 'official' record. For example, if you have an insurance claim that
happened to be within spitting distance of, say, Brize Norton, then the
'real' BZN observations would not be used/provided as such, but the
gridded data-sets resolved to a local mesh (2 km according to this link,
but it may be finer), and that is the data that would be the 'official'
weather for that spot:-

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/services/insurance/pricing

Perhaps that's why the Met Office have backed out of giving opinions on
weather-related events - more work for experts like yourself :-)

Incidentally, this not using the 'real weather' is of course at the
heart of the recent exercise to decide whether snow did or did not occur
at various points around the country; after all, when did you last see
anyone taking readings in the grounds of Buckingham Palace?


Martin.




--
Martin Rowley
Location: West Moors, East Dorset (UK): 17m (56ft) amsl
Lat: 50.82N Long: 01.88W
NGR: SU 082 023
W: booty.org.uk
E:

Martin Rowley wrote:

Norman wrote:
Martin Rowley wrote:

On Dec 26, 8:59 pm, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Sunday 26th December 2010
snip
UK min. temps on Saturday night http://tinyurl.com/2auy3y8
snip
Sennybridge -13.3 C, Castlederg and Shawbury -15.1 C, Hereford
snip
Reported rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Sunday
snip
Wick 11 mm, Ballypatrick 13 mm, Castlederg 19 mm.
[and]

David G wrote:

Castlederg -16 deg min and 19mm rain equivalent seems anomalous ?

... from the SYNOPs in the 24hr to 1800Z (26th Dec), the minimum
temperature reported was set the previous evening (25th) around 21Z; the
temperature rose above zero degC between 06 & 07Z today (26th) and rain
started around 12Z today - quickly becoming occasional moderate. No doubt
the precipitation figure for the 24 hours is composed of a mix of
rainfall between 12 & 18Z and melted snow remaining in the gauge.

We're going to get quite a number of 'anomalous' rainfall data reports
from the many automatic stations dotted about - caution required :-)

Martin.

Do you know how this is treated "officially" Martin? Do the totals as
measured become the "official" record? If so, a day of heavy snow and below
zero temps would go down as a dry day and a day of no precipitation in a
thaw might go down as a wet day. There would also be significant
precipitation "loss" on days of strong wind with heavy snow and below zero
temps when very little accumulates in the funnel. This can have legal
implications as "official" weather measurements are often presented in
Court as "fact". It also highlights the difficulty in comparing recent
winter rainfall measurements that rely on AWS with past rainfall
measurements using manual gauges.

... I wish I knew Norman but I suspect such data don't influence the
permanent record as much as you might think. What I do know is that the
observations are just one (small) part of the mix which go to making up the
'official' record. For example, if you have an insurance claim that happened
to be within spitting distance of, say, Brize Norton, then the 'real' BZN
observations would not be used/provided as such, but the gridded data-sets
resolved to a local mesh (2 km according to this link, but it may be finer),
and that is the data that would be the 'official' weather for that spot:-


It would make for an interesting legal argument if, in the example you cite,
the BZN observations were significantly different to the gridded data.

I haven't yet come across the gridded data in any of the cases that I have
worked on. Contrary to what you say above, I do still often see raw
observations, provided by the Met Office without comment or interpretation, but
often mis-interpreted by experts of other disciplines and by barristers. I'm
not sure how well the gridded data would stand up in Court given that the Met
Office will not provide anyone to explain and support it there. It's not fact
so it can't really stand up on its own without expert support.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.