On Jan 23, 8:47*pm, "Gavino" wrote:
"Joe Egginton" wrote in message

...

Actually it's not quite correct to
say that the Earth rotates on its axis every 24 hours - it's 23 hours
and 56 minutes, and the 4 minutes makes it up to 24 hours.

Ian Bingham,
Inchmarlo, Aberdeenshire.

The obvious solution is to shorten the definition of a second from it's
9,162,613,770 oscillations per second of caesium 133. *So that the
measurement of the earth's rotation in a day exactly equals 24 hours.

Of course, by changing the definition of a second, it'll have major
implications for our high tech electronic world, from mobile phones to
the internet not working.

To say nothing of the fact that after six months, we would be having solar
noon at midnight!

You *are* joking, I hope?

To be fair,only contemporary imaging and technology allows a clearer
view of the components parts.

The term AM/PM refer to a single daily astronomical event as a
location turns to and then turns past natural noon,these cycles vary
as it combines the daily rotation of the Earth with the known orbital
variations.Each of these noon cycles comprising of dual motions and
their variation represent discrete events yet comprise of a overall
cycle where rotations and orbital cycles come back into close
alignment after 1461 days or its orbital equivalent of 4 years.They
created an average 24 hour day out of the total number of natural noon
cycles by continuously adding or subtracting minutes and seconds
needed to keep the 1461 clocks noon cycles in step with the 1461
natural noon cycles.

People who are unaccustomed to the entire sprawling structure would
find the details almost painful,at least at the beginning,but it so
happens that days/years do convert to rotations/orbits and why Feb
29th will be the final 1461st rotation that began Mar 1st 2008.

I am prepared to leave it like that,it is a shame that the English who
have a great astronomical and timekeeping heritage would find the idea
contentious that the daily temperature fluctuations keep in step with
one rotation of the Earth within a system of proportions between
rotations and orbital cycles.

"oriel36" wrote in message
...
Why does it get cold at night and warm during the day and you
can't answer it with 1465 rotations in 1461 days.
==========================

Well I'm a qualified meteorologist and as far as I understand it. It gets
warmer during the day (airmass changes excepted) because of shortwave
radiation from the sun and it gets cold at night (airmass changes excepted)
primarily due to a net loss of longwave radiation.
It has nothing to do with rotation apart from the obvious fact that the sun
appears and disappears over the horizon due to the earth rotating.


http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

On Jan 23, 9:17*pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

...
*Why does it get cold at night and warm during the day and you
can't answer it with 1465 rotations in 1461 days.
==========================

Well I'm a qualified meteorologist and as far as I understand it. It gets
warmer during the day (airmass changes excepted) because of shortwave
radiation from the sun and it gets cold at night (airmass changes excepted)
primarily due to a net loss of longwave radiation.
It has nothing to do with rotation....

Day turns to night in tandem with temperature fluctuations because the
Earth is turning and far from being surprised that you even hint that
these normal human experiences are not due to rotation,I well
comprehend where you are coming from regardless of how dishonorable it
may be.There are 1461 day/night cycles in 4 circuits of the Earth and
these cycles are due to the only possible cause.

Even I would not descend to a level where normal experiences such as
daily temperature fluctuations lose their cause,and you are doing it
for a silly late 17th century mistake that is not immediately
discernible but ultimately generates a hideous imbalance of 1465
rotations in 1461 days so the point is that even before you made that
hideous statement above,you were already removed from the normal
experience of 1461 rotations in 1461 days.

Far from being an exception,and there is nothing honorable in this for
anyone,it exposes a problem that always existed in science but was
never so obvious as today.

" I have heard such things put forth as I should blush to repeat--not
so much to avoid discrediting their authors (whose names could always
be withheld) as to refrain from detracting so greatly from the honor
of the human race. In the long run my observations have convinced me
that some men, reasoning preposterously, first establish some
conclusion In their minds which, either because of its being their own
or because of their having received it from some person who has their
entire confidence, impresses them so deeply that one finds it
impossible ever to get it out of their heads. Such arguments in
support of their fixed idea as they hit upon themselves or hear set
forth by others, no matter how simple and stupid these may be, gain
their instant acceptance and applause. On the other hand whatever is
brought forward against it, however ingenious and conclusive, they
receive with disdain or with hot rage--if indeed it does not make them
ill " Galileo

http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

Are you absolutely sure you want to argue against daily rotation as
the cause behind the daily temperature fluctuation from a daytime high
to a nighttime low ?.If you decide that you went too far then accept
that 1461 rotations will cause 1461 daily temperature fluctuations or
what amounts to the same thing 4 years/4 circuits of the Earth.

If this isn't troubling,I don't know what is.

On 23/01/2012 08:05, Weatherlawyer wrote:

Arrrrgh!!!

Beware the trapses.

Nobody loves us. We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious.
They stole it from us. Sneaky little weathermen.
No.
Not masters...
Yes, ...precious, ...false!
They will cheat you, hurt you.

LIE!!

...
You don't have any friends; Nobody likes you! I'm not listening... I'm
not listening... Master looks after us now. We don't need you ...anymore.

Lost it. He's finally lost it. If these were Victorian times at least
we could have got him some earthquake pills.

Still, anyone who appreciates Tolkien has something to be said for
them. See you down the cinema for "The Hobbit"!

--
- Yokel -

Yokel posts via a spam-trap account which is not read.

On Jan 23, 10:39*pm, Yokel wrote:
On 23/01/2012 08:05, Weatherlawyer wrote:











Arrrrgh!!!

Beware the trapses.

Nobody loves us. We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious.
They stole it from us. Sneaky little weathermen.
No.
Not masters...
Yes, ...precious, ...false!
They will cheat you, hurt you.

LIE!!

...
You don't have any friends; Nobody likes you! I'm not listening... I'm
not listening... Master looks after us now. We don't need you ...anymore.

Lost it. *He's finally lost it. *If these were Victorian times at least
we could have got him some earthquake pills.

Still, anyone who appreciates Tolkien has something to be said for
them. *See you down the cinema for "The Hobbit"!

Yokel posts via a spam-trap account which is not read.

As with the spikes some observers get in their electronic equipment,
the days (night rather) where the temperature gradient is reversed
should be noted.

One day in the not too dim and distant it will be a part of the
geophysics requirement that such oddities are reported to earthquake
warning agencies.

Sadly, again, the only bodies likely to see to it at the moment are
the Japanese and Chinese meteorological-seismic warning agencies.

Japan won't learn because they have cranial arthritis just like the
MetOffice.

China will learn if they ever succeed in removing the gangsters
thwarting every decent thing there.

I strongly suspect everyone here will do their utmost to remove such
messages from god until he gets so thoroughly sick and tired of it he
will wipe out the lot of you.

(Let's hope I'm spared to report the details.
http://bible.cc/job/1-16.htm)

On Jan 23, 8:42*pm, oriel36 wrote:
On Jan 23, 7:45*pm, "Gavino" wrote:









"Buchan Meteo" wrote in message

...

The earth rotates once each day, 365 times in 365 days, and 366 times in
366 days when we add a leap day to the calendar year (not to be confused
with a real year).

No, this is what oriel36 asserts himself and is incorrect.
(He actually has no problem understanding the leap year cycle, quoting ad
nauseam from the ancent Egyptians and other historic sources on the topic.)

The earth rotates once each day *relative to the sun* (that's how we measure
days), but because of its orbit around the sun, the number of rotations in a
year, relative to the stars (which we may regard as a fixed direction in
space) is *one more* than the number of days. See Ian Binghams' post in this
thread.

I will make easy for you all.

When you argue for 1465 rotations in 1461 days you are arguing against
daily rotation keeping in step with daily temperature fluctuations and
that is close to impossible to do.The daily temperature fluctuations
are huge so the inability to assign a cause due to the rotation of the
Earth is an incredibly dum thing in an era convinced that they know
the cause of long terms temperature fluctuations.

The natural noon cycles,of which there are 1461 for years convert to
the 1461 AM/PM's that cross the calendar cycle so the steady
progression of 24 days in a format of 3 years of 365 days and 1 year
of 366 days represent a proportion between rotations and orbital
circuits from the parent fact of 1461 rotations in 4 circuits.

Students or any interested adult inquiring as to where the 1/4 day
goes each year to make up the leap day after every 4th year shouldn't
have to,the system is built on 1461 days and dividing the cycle by 4
circuits equates to 365 1/4 days to one orbital circuit.The 24 hours
of upcoming Feb 29th is being overlaid on the system that the
Egyptians describe and one that everyone here will use today -

The story of the current cycle began on Mar 1st 2008 when daily
rotation and orbital motion started in sync,as the orbital cycle of
the Earth around the Sun is 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes,the orbital
cycle ended at roughly 6 AM Mar 1st 2009 whereupon a new orbital cycle
of 365 1/4 days began and ended at 12 noon Mar 1st 2010,As there are
365 days and rotations between Mar 1st and Feb 28th each year,the
orbital cycle drifts ahead through Mar 1st each non-leap year in
increments of 6 hours so that by Mar 1st 2011,the orbital cycle was
ahead by a full 18 hours in ending at 6 PM Mar 1st 2011.At the end of
Mar 1st 2012 the orbital cycle is ahead by almost a full 24 hours so
that the extra 24 hours of rotation on February 29th returns the daily
and orbital cycles back into sync whereupon the orbital cycle ends the
next year at 6 AM Mar 1st 2013.

So in a four-year cycle of 1461 days, the earth rotates 1465 times about its
own axis. It is this that oriel36 refuses to accept, believing it to be an
abomination, and the sun to be the only true reference point - he even goes
as far as to dismiss Newton's 'gravitational agenda'.

The primary reference is between the two main motions of the Earth and
not to any external object,how many times does the Earth turn for the
same period it takes the Earth to make a complete orbital
circuit ?.The Egyptians used the number of days it took Sirius to
return to the same position in order to maintain a lock between the
number of days and festivals attached to the orbital points of the
equinoxes and solstices and found an extra day was needed hence the
beginning of the *365/366 day format that we still use.

The next reference is natural noon where the natural inequality is
reduced to the equable 24 hour day -

*"Draw a Meridian line upon a floor and then hang two plummets, each
by a small thread or wire, directly over the said Meridian, at the
distance of some 2. feet or more one from the other, as the smallness
of the thread will admit. When the middle of the Sun (the Eye being
placed so, as to bring both the threads into one line) appears to be
in the same line exactly.. you are then immediately to set the Watch,
not precisely to the hour of 12. but by so much less, as is the
Aequation of the day by the Table." Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

There is a complicated adjustment needed to clear up a few things
however Huygens,as with Harrison,clearly states the primary *facts
which all students have a basic right to learn

1 - The Earth has a rotation rate of 15 degrees per hour and turns a
full equatorial circumference of 24901 miles in 24 hours.

2 .The Earth turns 1461 times in 1461 days to the nearest rotation

3 - The pure *proportion *is 365 1/4 rotations for each time the
planet completes an orbital circuit.

I initially tried to respond to his posts in an attempt to understand what
he was trying to say behind the strange language used.
I now see he's completely deluded and it's pointless trying to convince him
of anything as he just regurgitates the same stuff again and again.
It's best just to ignore him from now on.

It took 40 years to correct the Piltdown Man episode and long after
the perpetrator had alerted researchers to the hoax,this is quite
different as the overall structure is within the reasoning
capabilities of all reasoning people and those who can snap out of the
late 17th century attempt to explain daily and orbital motions using a
24 hour clock.They basically took the 24 hour average which is
generated from natural noon and turned it against the very system from
which it emerged and while I concede the error is not immediately
discernible and there are a tsunami of time abbreviations surrounding
the core error,people who understand even the basics of the leap day
correction on Feb 29th as the 1461st day and rotation that closes out
4 years and 4 orbital circuits of the Earth will begin to undo the
damage,if not here then somewhere else.

So when the temperatures goes down and up within a 24 hour
period,readers can safely interpret it as the rotation of our planet,I
didn't think I would have to explain this to a forum built around
weather and the daily heat and cold but with an idea of 1465 rotations
in 1461 days the loss of cause should anger people who value their
intelligence and accept the only common sense correspondence in 1461
rotations in 1461 days.

If you can't put your pebble in a long thing like Dawlish does, I
would suggest that you at least put more paragraph spaces between your
posts.

Every four years, 23 hours and 59 minutes should suffice.

DO NOT TOP-POST and DO trim your replies!!! Top-posting is the
annoying practice of replying to a message by typing your response
above that to which you are responding. This is a Bad Thing™ because
your readers will have to scroll down and extract the essential of the
existing thread in order to grasp the context of your reply, and then
scroll back up again to read your reply.

Posting a "me too" comment at the bottom of a 100+ line message is no
better because people have to scroll all the way down through 100+
lines they've already read in order to see your one-liner. One word
comes to mind for that: frustrating.

The generally accepted "right way" of doing things is called "inline
posting", whereby you insert your comments straight after that on
which you are commenting, having stripped unnecessary text from the
original quoted text. The end result is something which makes much
more sense because it reads like a conversation.

Please read this page, which goes into some detail: http://howto-pages.org/posting_style

More information on why top-posting is a Bad Thing™ he

Top posting according to The Ursine Wiki
The Absolute Beginner's guide to Usenet - FAQ - Top Posting
Top posting vs. bottom posting
Dan's Mail Format Site | Quoting | Bottom Posting
Email quotes and inclusion conventions

http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

You are not the only one who does it but the recently aborted top post
was a classic.

You know who you you are. So do I.

Let's hope it ends there.

On Jan 23, 9:48*pm, oriel36 wrote:

Are you absolutely sure you want to argue against daily rotation as
the cause behind the daily temperature fluctuation from a daytime high
to a night time low ?

.If you decide that you went too far then accept
that 1461 rotations will cause 1461 daily temperature fluctuations or
what amounts to the same thing 4 years/4 circuits of the Earth.

If this isn't troubling, I don't know what is.

I just realised why I was given the awful ability to stick with
imponderable riddles until they do me in. It's so I can keep reading
posts like yours until I understand the frame of mind behind them.

You are Dawlish.

I can tell because:

1. He hasn't nursed this thread.
2. You have.
3. You don't read the OP or subsequent reasoning.
4. You failed to realise the thread is about the the fact that
occasionally, the temperatures go up at night.

Let me rephrase that last one:

The Most Learned Mr Martin Rowley ExFAQ Officer Extraordinairre
couldn't think of a term for the phenomenon whereby the temperatures
increase at night.

The paradigm being that motile air masses can bring with them
increases in temperature but that at ground level and as far as the
eye can see at night, this is in the case discussed, not the case.

Occasionally, when there is a suitable earthquake in the offing and
electronic equipment is spiking, old salts like the OP notice things
like that.

It's called observation. You aught to try it some time.

On Jan 23, 9:17*pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

...
*Why does it get cold at night and warm during the day and you
can't answer it with 1465 rotations in 1461 days.
==========================

Well I'm a qualified meteorologist and as far as I understand it. It gets
warmer during the day (airmass changes excepted) because of shortwave
radiation from the sun and it gets cold at night (airmass changes excepted)
primarily due to a net loss of longwave radiation.
It has nothing to do with rotation apart from the obvious fact that the sun
appears and disappears over the horizon due to the earth rotating.

http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

It is not that you said it that is troubling,it is that you said it
knowing there would be no objections.

I assure everyone here that day turning to night keeps in step with
the rotation of the Earth so when people opt for an imbalance between
days and rotations,an imbalance that has a definite beginning as a
mistake in the late 17th century,they are actually arguing against
cause and effect at a level no person should find fault with.The
warmth of the daytime and the cold of night are due to the rotating
Earth and this forum based on weather can't express it is a sight to
behold.

One person snapped out and came to the right conclusion even though he
did not have a feel for the transfer of days/years to rotations/orbits
but common sense generally intervenes and people will eventually do
the right thing.So,at least you know the correct set of values is out
there and every student has a right to learn them

1 - The Earth has a rotation rate of 15 degrees per hour and turns a
full equatorial circumference of 24901 miles in 24 hours.

2 .The Earth turns 1461 times in 1461 days to the nearest rotation

3 - The pure proportion is 365 1/4 rotations for each time the
planet completes an orbital circuit.

As for everyone else here,I wouldn't know what to say to them.

Gavino scrive:

"Buchan Meteo" wrote in message
...
The earth rotates once each day, 365 times in 365 days, and 366 times
in 366 days when we add a leap day to the calendar year (not to be
confused with a real year).

No, this is what oriel36 asserts himself and is incorrect. (He actually
has no problem understanding the leap year cycle, quoting ad nauseam
from the ancent Egyptians and other historic sources on the topic.)

OED
day n. ...corresponding to a rotation of the earth on its axis.

The earth rotates once each day *relative to the sun*

The earth rotates once each day on its axis. That is the definition of a
day. Thus it rotates once per day, or a million times in a million days
because one rotation *is* one day.

--
Gianna
Peterhead, Scotland

buchan-meteo.org.uk