On 21/03/13 21:56, Teignmouth wrote:
I forgot to say, there would obviously be winners& loosers,& it would be down to those countries that were able to adapt best to their change emvironment.

For example, the major wheat producing regions like Canada/USA/Russia, would all move south.

However, some parts of North Africa may become more fertile, but would those countries be able to take on the role of the countries mentioned above etc ????

It also depends on the amount of warming/cooling.

If you are talking about significant change (+/-3C) I don't think it is
obvious which is going to be worse for humanity, the warming or the
cooling. It is likely to be academic anyway, any change like that is
going to be destructive.

On Mar 21, 9:45*pm, "Togless" wrote:
Teignmouth" wrote:
People should be careful of what they wish for, a Mini
Ice Age would be much more damaging to the World
economy & day to day living than Global Warming.

A 'mini ice age' now would take us all the way back to the blisteringly cold
climate of... the 1980s.

If you'd said the 1880's I'd take the remark a little more
seriously.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

"Tudor Hughes" wrote:

"Togless" wrote:
Teignmouth" wrote:
People should be careful of what they wish for, a Mini
Ice Age would be much more damaging to the World
economy & day to day living than Global Warming.

A 'mini ice age' now would take us all the way back to the
blisteringly cold climate of... the 1980s.

If you'd said the 1880's I'd take the remark a little more seriously.

According to the palaeo data, the LIA was about 0.4C cooler globally than
the MWP and the mid-20th Century. 0.4C back from today's temperature takes
us to the global temperature of the mid-1980s.

The world has warmed so much in the last 100 years or so that a global
cooling of a few tenths of a degree would be insignificant, unless for some
reason it had highly localised effects which weren't seen in the 20th
Century.

Part of the reason for the locally harsh winters around the North Atlantic
and Europe during the LIA may have been expansion of ice and snow cover
which acted as a positive feedback to the relatively small global cooling.
It's unlikely this would happen now, given the rate of global warming which
is causing rapidly diminishing snow and ice cover over the northern
hemisphere. Solar physicists say that at best, a Maunder Minimum-scale
decrease in insolation would delay global warming by 15 years or so, but
then it would continue as before (assuming we don't come to our senses and
start fixing the problem).

On Friday, 22 March 2013 10:44:38 UTC, Togless wrote:
"Tudor Hughes" wrote:



"Togless" wrote:

Teignmouth" wrote:

People should be careful of what they wish for, a Mini

Ice Age would be much more damaging to the World

economy & day to day living than Global Warming.



A 'mini ice age' now would take us all the way back to the

blisteringly cold climate of... the 1980s.



If you'd said the 1880's I'd take the remark a little more seriously.



According to the palaeo data, the LIA was about 0.4C cooler globally than

the MWP and the mid-20th Century. 0.4C back from today's temperature takes

us to the global temperature of the mid-1980s.



The world has warmed so much in the last 100 years or so that a global

cooling of a few tenths of a degree would be insignificant, unless for some

reason it had highly localised effects which weren't seen in the 20th

Century.



Part of the reason for the locally harsh winters around the North Atlantic

and Europe during the LIA may have been expansion of ice and snow cover

which acted as a positive feedback to the relatively small global cooling..

It's unlikely this would happen now, given the rate of global warming which

is causing rapidly diminishing snow and ice cover over the northern

hemisphere. Solar physicists say that at best, a Maunder Minimum-scale

decrease in insolation would delay global warming by 15 years or so, but

then it would continue as before (assuming we don't come to our senses and

start fixing the problem).

"come to our senses" ? So are you saying that around two hundred years ago capitalism (us) should have switched to wind turbines and solar panels on the roofs of all those millions of semis in the UK at that time, FFS are you mad Sea ice is about tshow another increase upwards, I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers on desptite the CH on amd you just can't stop the bloody AGW mantra -not even the slightest hesitaition.


Thank god we have AGW ortherwise it would be even colder

"Lawrence13" wrote:

....
I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers
on desptite the CH on amd you just can't stop the bloody
AGW mantra -not even the slightest hesitaition.

Thank god we have AGW ortherwise it would be even colder

Whatever your views on the cause of it, the Arctic is losing a huge
proportion of the ice that it had just 30 years ago, and it's warming three
times faster than the global average. There must come a point where this
has substantial and noticeable effects on our local climate, surely? Maybe
the reduced temperature gradient is letting the jet stream drift further
south and keeping the UK on the cold and messy side of it. What do you
think? Given our latitude, right where the jet stream usually is, this
could make a big difference to our climate. Cooler wetter summers, snowier
winters... something like that.

On Friday, 22 March 2013 23:35:43 UTC, Togless wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:



...

I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers

on desptite the CH on amd you just can't stop the bloody

AGW mantra -not even the slightest hesitaition.



Thank god we have AGW ortherwise it would be even colder



Whatever your views on the cause of it, the Arctic is losing a huge

proportion of the ice that it had just 30 years ago, and it's warming three

times faster than the global average. There must come a point where this

has substantial and noticeable effects on our local climate, surely? Maybe

the reduced temperature gradient is letting the jet stream drift further

south and keeping the UK on the cold and messy side of it. What do you

think? Given our latitude, right where the jet stream usually is, this

could make a big difference to our climate. Cooler wetter summers, snowier

winters... something like that.


Look Togless I apologise for the aggressive tone but this global warming tripe just never stops. We've been told by UKMO no less , over the years to expect milder winters , snow and ice to be a rarer occurrence, spring to get earlier and earlier, summers to be blisteringly hot and very dry but also very wet and now since the late 2000's we find cool wet summer dry winter, wet winters, snow that we supposed to never see again, retarded springs and so on with no clear AGW pattern whatsoever and that just isn't the UK with Germany and parts of Europe , the old USSR and USA plus other countries having dry and wet but importantly cold winters but still it goes on and on and on.

On Mar 22, 11:35*pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:

...

I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers
on desptite the CH on amd you just can't stop the bloody
AGW mantra -not even the slightest hesitaition.

Thank god we have AGW ortherwise it would be even colder

Whatever your views on the cause of it, the Arctic is losing a huge
proportion of the ice that it had just 30 years ago, and it's warming three
times faster than the global average. *There must come a point where this
has substantial and noticeable effects on our local climate, surely? *Maybe
the reduced temperature gradient is letting the jet stream drift further
south and keeping the UK on the cold and messy side of it. *What do you
think? *Given our latitude, right where the jet stream usually is, this
could make a big difference to our climate. *Cooler wetter summers, snowier
winters... something like that.

I have seen research (can't remember where) that indicates
that the jet stream would move north, not south, but strengthen
slightly. It seems counter-intuitive that it should strengthen but
this is what the computer runs indicate.

In the Little Ice Age the jet was for the most part further
south than it is today, which accounts for the increased storminess of
some parts of that era.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

Hence the land grab going on in many states of Africa by China and the West - China is hoovering up the minerals and land to grow crops while the West is changing regimes (see Libya for the oil, Mali for minerals and crop growing to name but two). The continent is the new cold war frontier

On 22/03/13 22:11, Lawrence13 wrote:
I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers on...

And this time last year I was happily wandering around outside in a T
shirt. Your point being?

On Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:24:37 AM UTC, Adam Lea wrote:
On 22/03/13 22:11, Lawrence13 wrote:

I'm sitting here typing in SE London with two pullovers on...



And this time last year I was happily wandering around outside in a T

shirt. Your point being?

Why is everyone getting so worked up about this? Have we never experienced snow in March before?

I have photos somewhere of 4 inches of snow in my garden almost covering the flowering tulips. That must have been well into April. The photos were taken sometime in the 1990s but I don't remember the whole country descending into a panic then.

Neither do I remember too much panic when snow covered the cricket pitch in Buxton on 2nd June 1975 and the midday temp at Colchester was 2C.

Maybe you are all watching too many news bulletins from the hysterical TV presenters, and these have rotted the memory?