On 25/05/2013 16:40, Graham P Davis wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 15:28:34 +0100
Adam Lea wrote:

On 25/05/13 10:45, Graham P Davis wrote:


Which is why I wish they'd return to the strict usage of 'cold,'
'cool,' 'rather warm,' etc., of a few decades ago.

Isn't that subjective as well?

Not at all, they were defined by temperature anomalies. Each word or
phrase was assigned to a range of anomalies.

The following is from the Radio Times, probably somewhen in the 1950s.
The terms and changed before I started work in '62 but give the general
idea. Temperatures are in Fahrenheit.

================================================== =====================
The heat-wave sizzles on as we go to press and a reader asks us to
explain just what is meant by the descriptive terms used in BBC
weather forecasts at this time of the year. We, in turn, asked the
meteorological back-room boys for enlightenment, and they have provided
us with the following table:

Very hot - More than 20 above normal
Hot - 16-20 above normal
Very warm - 11-15 above normal
Warm - 6-10 above normal
Rather warm - 3-5 above normal
Rather cool - 3-5 below normal
Cool - 6-9 below normal
Very cool - 10-15 below normal
Cold - More than 15 below normal

Words such as 'cooler,' 'colder,' 'milder,' 'warmer' are used when a
comparison is made between the temperature conditions expected and
those recently experienced. We should add that 'normal' at the present
time varies between a maximum of approximately 70 in the southern, and
65 in the northern, regions of the United Kingdom.
================================================== =====================


I've been looking in my various Forecaster's Reference books et al for
this, but couldn't find it. I think that in the 70s and 80s these were
changed, as I remember being told that you never used hot in the winter
or cold in the summer. Certainly nothing about 'bitterly cold' etc.
These are useful because we aren't very good at judging temperatures -
12 C in the winter and we think it's warm; in the summer we think it's cold!

On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:09:31 +0100
Metman2012 wrote:

On 25/05/2013 16:40, Graham P Davis wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 15:28:34 +0100
Adam Lea wrote:

On 25/05/13 10:45, Graham P Davis wrote:


Which is why I wish they'd return to the strict usage of 'cold,'
'cool,' 'rather warm,' etc., of a few decades ago.

Isn't that subjective as well?

Not at all, they were defined by temperature anomalies. Each word or
phrase was assigned to a range of anomalies.

The following is from the Radio Times, probably somewhen in the
1950s. The terms and changed before I started work in '62 but give
the general idea. Temperatures are in Fahrenheit.

================================================== =====================
The heat-wave sizzles on as we go to press and a reader asks us to
explain just what is meant by the descriptive terms used in BBC
weather forecasts at this time of the year. We, in turn, asked the
meteorological back-room boys for enlightenment, and they have
provided us with the following table:

Very hot - More than 20 above normal
Hot - 16-20 above normal
Very warm - 11-15 above normal
Warm - 6-10 above normal
Rather warm - 3-5 above normal
Rather cool - 3-5 below normal
Cool - 6-9 below normal
Very cool - 10-15 below normal
Cold - More than 15 below normal

Words such as 'cooler,' 'colder,' 'milder,' 'warmer' are used when a
comparison is made between the temperature conditions expected and
those recently experienced. We should add that 'normal' at the
present time varies between a maximum of approximately 70 in the
southern, and 65 in the northern, regions of the United Kingdom.
================================================== =====================


I've been looking in my various Forecaster's Reference books et al
for this, but couldn't find it. I think that in the 70s and 80s these
were changed, as I remember being told that you never used hot in the
winter or cold in the summer. Certainly nothing about 'bitterly cold'
etc. These are useful because we aren't very good at judging
temperatures - 12 C in the winter and we think it's warm; in the
summer we think it's cold!

As I said, I think they were changed before I joined up - had to be
because of switch to Celsius - but it may have changed again after '78
when I switched from forecasting to programming.

I've found that the above table only referred to Summer. Here is the
full Monty taken from 'Weather Map', published in 1956.

Summer
(Mid May to mid September)
Very Hot - More than 20F above normal
Hot - 16-20F above normal
Very warm - 11-15F above normal
Warm - 6-10F above normal
Rather warm - 3-5F above normal
Rather cool - 3-5F below normal
Cool - 6-9F below normal
Very cool - 10-15F below normal
Cold - More than 15F below normal

Winter
(November to mid March)
Very mild - More than 10F above normal
Mild - 3-10F above normal
Rather cold - 3-5F below normal
Cold - 6-10F below normal
Very cold - More than 10F below normal

Spring and Autumn
(Mid March to mid May; mid September to October)
Very warm - More than 12F above normal
Warm - 8-12F above normal
Rather warm - 3-7F above normal
Rather cold - 3-7F below normal
Cold - 8-15F below normal
Very cold - More than 15F below normal



--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Free office softwa http://www.libreoffice.org/
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1 - best version of this I've found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg

In message , Metman2012
writes
These are useful because we aren't very good at judging temperatures -
12 C in the winter and we think it's warm; in the summer we think it's
cold!

There are other factors as well in how warm it _feels_. When I ventured
out for a walk this morning, the local airport was reporting 8 C.
I wouldn't go out without a coat at that temperature in winter but with
a cloudless sky and light wind I was taking the jumper off after a few
minutes brisk walking.

--
Goalie of the Century

On Sat, 25 May 2013 19:41:51 +0100
Goalie of the Century wrote:

In message , Metman2012
writes
These are useful because we aren't very good at judging temperatures
- 12 C in the winter and we think it's warm; in the summer we think
it's cold!

There are other factors as well in how warm it _feels_. When I
ventured out for a walk this morning, the local airport was reporting
8 C. I wouldn't go out without a coat at that temperature in winter
but with a cloudless sky and light wind I was taking the jumper off
after a few minutes brisk walking.


Of course that's true, but if the forecasters would revert to the old
system, the general public would be able to take that into account. The
problem is that one forecaster might describe a particular day as 'a
little chilly' whilst another would call it 'bitterly cold' or
'freezing.' In some cases the true description might be 'rather mild.'
If they don't stick to a standard description, the poor public doesn't
stand a cat-in-hell's chance of guessing what clothes to wear.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Free office softwa http://www.libreoffice.org/
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1 - best version of this I've found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 7:41:29 PM UTC+1, Graham P Davis wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:09:31 +0100

Metman2012 wrote:



On 25/05/2013 16:40, Graham P Davis wrote:

On Sat, 25 May 2013 15:28:34 +0100

Adam Lea wrote:



On 25/05/13 10:45, Graham P Davis wrote:





Which is why I wish they'd return to the strict usage of 'cold,'

'cool,' 'rather warm,' etc., of a few decades ago.



Isn't that subjective as well?



Not at all, they were defined by temperature anomalies. Each word or

phrase was assigned to a range of anomalies.



The following is from the Radio Times, probably somewhen in the

1950s. The terms and changed before I started work in '62 but give

the general idea. Temperatures are in Fahrenheit.



================================================== =====================

The heat-wave sizzles on as we go to press and a reader asks us to

explain just what is meant by the descriptive terms used in BBC

weather forecasts at this time of the year. We, in turn, asked the

meteorological back-room boys for enlightenment, and they have

provided us with the following table:



Very hot - More than 20 above normal

Hot - 16-20 above normal

Very warm - 11-15 above normal

Warm - 6-10 above normal

Rather warm - 3-5 above normal

Rather cool - 3-5 below normal

Cool - 6-9 below normal

Very cool - 10-15 below normal

Cold - More than 15 below normal



Words such as 'cooler,' 'colder,' 'milder,' 'warmer' are used when a

comparison is made between the temperature conditions expected and

those recently experienced. We should add that 'normal' at the

present time varies between a maximum of approximately 70 in the

southern, and 65 in the northern, regions of the United Kingdom.

================================================== =====================





I've been looking in my various Forecaster's Reference books et al

for this, but couldn't find it. I think that in the 70s and 80s these

were changed, as I remember being told that you never used hot in the

winter or cold in the summer. Certainly nothing about 'bitterly cold'

etc. These are useful because we aren't very good at judging

temperatures - 12 C in the winter and we think it's warm; in the

summer we think it's cold!



As I said, I think they were changed before I joined up - had to be

because of switch to Celsius - but it may have changed again after '78

when I switched from forecasting to programming.



I've found that the above table only referred to Summer. Here is the

full Monty taken from 'Weather Map', published in 1956.



Summer

(Mid May to mid September)

Very Hot - More than 20F above normal

Hot - 16-20F above normal

Very warm - 11-15F above normal

Warm - 6-10F above normal

Rather warm - 3-5F above normal

Rather cool - 3-5F below normal

Cool - 6-9F below normal

Very cool - 10-15F below normal

Cold - More than 15F below normal



Winter

(November to mid March)

Very mild - More than 10F above normal

Mild - 3-10F above normal

Rather cold - 3-5F below normal

Cold - 6-10F below normal

Very cold - More than 10F below normal



Spring and Autumn

(Mid March to mid May; mid September to October)

Very warm - More than 12F above normal

Warm - 8-12F above normal

Rather warm - 3-7F above normal

Rather cold - 3-7F below normal

Cold - 8-15F below normal

Very cold - More than 15F below normal







--

Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.

Free office softwa http://www.libreoffice.org/

Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1 - best version of this I've found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg

Thanks for that Graham. Extremely interesting. I love the semantic qualifier "rather". *))

On 25/05/2013 07:35, Col wrote:
"Adam Lea" wrote in message

*sigh*. I kind of hoped that on a scientific newsgroup people would have
more intelligence than to resort to ridiculous negative sweeping
generalisations such as this, but there you go. Very disappointing.

Agreed.
I've my arguments on here regarding London centricity, a topic I
studiously avoid these days but that comment was just plain idiotic.


Maybe I lashed out, but I don't take a single word back. I lived and
worked in London for a year, and found almost all the "London bred" to
be arrogant, self-centred, selfish with no care for anyone else not of
the same ilk. I was glad to get out of it after that year and passed up
a very well paid job not to stay there any longer. The folk I worked
with were all non-Londoners, which made the job bearable. But as for
social life, we were on our own, and made no friends while we were there.

I was brought up in Wolverhampton for 10 years, and the few times I've
been back there, I've found almost everyone friendly and warm, even the
immigrants. The complete opposite of London. Lawrence got my back right
up with his comment that London was the "most important city in the UK".
That is absolute rubbish. Every city, town, village and hamlet has its
part to play in this country, and each and every one of them is as
important as the rest. It's just that London seems to think it's more
important than anywhere else.

My sister moved to London and worked there for almost 35 years. She then
moved out to the country, and apart from one other ex-Londoner has no
friends in that village. Even her own neighbours don't want to know her.
She is completely different morally from how the pair of us were brought
up. I will no longer have anything to do with her. The last I heard she
was going to move back. She only has one thing on her mind, herself.

I live in Northampton, and in the 1970's a lot of Londoners, mainly from
the East End, were relocated to this town. Almost all of them now would
not dream of going back there, and consider those who live in the city
as pompous, stuck up prigs (their words, not mine). Friends who work in
the city come home at the weekend and sigh with relief at having got
away from it all for a few days. I'm not alone in my views. A lot of
people in this town feel exactly the same as I do.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's how it is.

jim, Northampton

On Friday, May 24, 2013 11:17:02 PM UTC+1, jbm wrote:
On 24/05/2013 22:22, Lawrence13 wrote:







London is the ......... and most important city in the UK



That is most certainly arguably down to personal opinion.



In my opinion it is a **** hole that deserves to disappear under a

mushroom cloud, together with the self-centred, egotistic morons that

populate it.



jim, Northampton

A number of years ago a dear friend of mine moved from Stepney to Market Harborough, Northants, to save money and get a bigger place. He couldn't stand it and moved back. Full of racist bigots - his words, not mine. As the lawns grow wider the minds become narrower.

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:46:43 AM UTC+1, jbm wrote:


I live in Northampton, and in the 1970's a lot of Londoners, mainly from

the East End, were relocated to this town. Almost all of them now would

not dream of going back

You're welcome to them - racist bigots the lot of them - too narrow minded to realise that we were all immigrants at one time or another. Oh and for the record the biggest ******** I've ever seen is probably Corby in that hillbilly county Northants. I look forward to the time when London becomes its own city state, like Singapore, and leaves Northants and other dives to sink into its own ****. Buy yourself a shotgun - Mad Max is going to become a reality up there

in 379859 20130525 111001 "Col" wrote:
Joe Egginton wrote:

You've guesssed - RACIST!

Not necessarily racist but if you genuinely want to live in
a town with no 'foreigners' then you're certainly Xenophobic.

I spent my working life with a large multi-national and soon found I had far more
in common with French, German, Spanish etc colleagues than with my (English)
neighbours.
Mind you, Americans were a different matter!

On Sat, 25 May 2013 19:41:29 +0100
Graham P Davis wrote:

snip
I've found that the above table only referred to Summer. Here is the
full Monty taken from 'Weather Map', published in 1956.

Summer
(Mid May to mid September)
Very Hot - More than 20F above normal
Hot - 16-20F above normal
Very warm - 11-15F above normal
Warm - 6-10F above normal
Rather warm - 3-5F above normal
Rather cool - 3-5F below normal
Cool - 6-9F below normal
Very cool - 10-15F below normal
Cold - More than 15F below normal

Winter
(November to mid March)
Very mild - More than 10F above normal
Mild - 3-10F above normal
Rather cold - 3-5F below normal
Cold - 6-10F below normal
Very cold - More than 10F below normal

Spring and Autumn
(Mid March to mid May; mid September to October)
Very warm - More than 12F above normal
Warm - 8-12F above normal
Rather warm - 3-7F above normal
Rather cold - 3-7F below normal
Cold - 8-15F below normal
Very cold - More than 15F below normal


And here's some more of the same. The use of some of the terms have
offended a few members of this group from time to time but this shows
how long they have been officially recommended and that they are not the
result of recent dumbing-down.

================================================== ===================

In addition, the words 'normal temperature', or 'normal for the
season', may be used to describe a temperature within about 2F of the
normal for the time of year.

Words such as 'cooler', 'colder', 'milder', 'warmer', may be used when
a comparison is being made between the temperaure conditions and those
recently experienced.

The following additional terms are employed when appropriate:-
Close = Temperature normal, or above normal, for the season,
with high humidity, a cloudy or overcast sky, and a calm or
light wind; oppressive.
Muggy = Warm damp air, but not necessarily oppressive.
Raw = Cold damp air, sometimes with fog.

================================================== ===================

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Free office softwa http://www.libreoffice.org/
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1 - best version of this I've found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg