Hi

I don't usually take issue with John Hammond, but in the 1.30 PM weather on the BBC today he described the exceptional snowfall around the Great Lakes as frontal (i.e cold and warm air masses coming together), but as far as I can see, although some of that snow was frontal, the majority came about through lake-effect snow (i.e. caused by the water temperature of Lake Erie being around 8°C and the air temperature around -8°C and hence very unstable air combined with a strong westerly flow bringing continuous showers to the lakes coastal communities like Buffalo).

I did expect him to try and briefly explain lake-effect snow, and was very surprised when he churned out the "cold and warm air masses coming together" one.

I'll be interested if he uses the same graphics in the 6.30 PM broadcast.

Bruce.

xmetman: http://wp.me/p3yVic-TL

60-hour radar, Mon 17 to 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXW6TjGd1t8

Stephen.

60-hour radar, November 17 to 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXW6TjGd1t8

Stephen.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:54:21 -0800 (PST)
wrote:

60-hour radar, November 17 to 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXW6TjGd1t8


Thanks for that, Jonny. ;-)

Matt Taylor's view on lake-effect snow:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/3...e=news_central

and a drone's-eye view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-c...e=news_central


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
[Retired meteorologist and computer programmer]
Posted with Claws: http://www.claws-mail.org/

On Thursday, 20 November 2014 13:51:33 UTC, wrote:
Hi

I don't usually take issue with John Hammond, but in the 1.30 PM weather on the BBC today he described the exceptional snowfall around the Great Lakes as frontal (i.e cold and warm air masses coming together), but as far as I can see, although some of that snow was frontal, the majority came about through lake-effect snow (i.e. caused by the water temperature of Lake Erie being around 8°C and the air temperature around -8°C and hence very unstable air combined with a strong westerly flow bringing continuous showers to the lakes coastal communities like Buffalo).

I did expect him to try and briefly explain lake-effect snow, and was very surprised when he churned out the "cold and warm air masses coming together" one.

I'll be interested if he uses the same graphics in the 6.30 PM broadcast.

Bruce.

xmetman: http://wp.me/p3yVic-TL

Did he actually say that? He should be shot. I know the BBC is heavily into dumbing-down but this is not dumbing down but simply wrong and there's no excuse for a forecaster of all people saying it was frontal. Apart from anything elese that would not explain the distribution of snow. It would need an extraordinary temperature contrast to produce that amount of snow, say between Gulf air and Canadian air and there was nothing like that on the GFS surface chart.
How difficult is it for him to say that it was very cold air over relatively warm water? Not very. He could have drawn an analogy with snow showers in north Kent and Essex or even with winter thunderstorms in the Western Isles. Dear me, no, far too difficult. Perhaps, horror of horrors, the forecaster has never heard of lake effect snow. I'm glad I didn't see the broadcast.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:02:09 PM UTC, Graham P Davis wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:54:21 -0800 (PST)


Thanks for that, Jonny. ;-)

Matt Taylor's view on lake-effect snow:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/3...e=news_central

and a drone's-eye view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-c...e=news_central

=============

Thanks.

Am I still showing as Jonny Z? Sorry. I keep changing it to my full name...

Stephen.

In message ,
Stephen Davenport writes
Am I still showing as Jonny Z? Sorry. I keep changing it to my full
name...

Yep. See attribution line above.
--
John Hall "Never play cards with a man called Doc.
Never eat at a place called Mom's.
Never sleep with a woman whose troubles
are worse than your own." Nelson Algren

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59:27 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:


Yep. See attribution line above.


=====

Thanks. Logged in differently now.

Stephen.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:02:07 +0000
Graham P Davis wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:54:21 -0800 (PST)
wrote:

60-hour radar, November 17 to 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXW6TjGd1t8


Thanks for that, Jonny. ;-)

Matt Taylor's view on lake-effect snow:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/3...e=news_central

and a drone's-eye view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-c...e=news_central


More aerial photos:
http://galleries.buffalonews.com/def...px?id=3291#/18

And some thundersnow:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/new...-camera/40328/


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
[Retired meteorologist and computer programmer]
Posted with Claws: http://www.claws-mail.org/

Tudor Hughes wrote:
On Thursday, 20 November 2014 13:51:33 UTC, wrote:
Hi

I don't usually take issue with John Hammond, but in the 1.30 PM weather on the BBC today he described the exceptional snowfall around the Great Lakes as frontal (i.e cold and warm air masses coming together), but as far as I can see, although some of that snow was frontal, the majority came about through lake-effect snow (i.e. caused by the water temperature of Lake Erie being around 8°C and the air temperature around -8°C and hence very unstable air combined with a strong westerly flow bringing continuous showers to the lakes coastal communities like Buffalo).

I did expect him to try and briefly explain lake-effect snow, and was very surprised when he churned out the "cold and warm air masses coming together" one.

I'll be interested if he uses the same graphics in the 6.30 PM broadcast.

Bruce.

xmetman: http://wp.me/p3yVic-TL

Did he actually say that? He should be shot. I know the BBC is heavily into dumbing-down but this is not dumbing down but simply wrong and there's no excuse for a forecaster of all people saying it was frontal. Apart from anything elese that would not explain the distribution of snow. It would need an extraordinary temperature contrast to produce that amount of snow, say between Gulf air and Canadian air and there was nothing like that on the GFS surface chart.
How difficult is it for him to say that it was very cold air over relatively warm water? Not very. He could have drawn an analogy with snow showers in north Kent and Essex or even with winter thunderstorms in the Western Isles. Dear me, no, far too difficult. Perhaps, horror of horrors, the forecaster has never heard of lake effect snow. I'm glad I didn't see the broadcast.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

----------------------------------------------------
That may be so but at least in other ways they have de-dumbed the
weather forecast a bit. Have you seen the 9.55pm daily BBC News 24
Forecast weather for the week ahead? Like a rolling Countryfile
forecast. Was actually showing the different model peturbations and
explaining how they worked and how there was uncertaintity with this
weekend's forecast due the higher range of outcomes. I'm not as expert
as your goodself but certainly knowledgeable enough to know that this
five minute nightly slot seems to be the biggest improvement in a
regular TV slot for weather presentation I have seen for some years.
At least they are trying.
Dave