On Monday, 13 April 2015 18:25:00 UTC+1, Scott W wrote:

Another frequently quoted one is:
"Ne'er cast a clout till May is out."
I used to think this referred to the month - in which case it is usually correct. However, when I realised it referred to the May / hawthorn tree (referring to the tree's blossom) I am not so sure of its reliability.

A clout is a target. Any bit of litter stuck in a hedge. Such a target in that season would be used for ploughing. In other words, it is never too late to plough if the first hedge bushes are not in flower.

I imagine a farmer can wait for the weather to get the fields ploughed in the most suitable condition.
Hardly a weather lore.

The one I know is, "Rain before seven, dry by eleven".

In message 20150413142709.2822a43b@linux-pkou
Graham P Davis wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:44:48 +0100
Asha Santon wrote:

On 13/04/15 12:30, Scott W wrote:
Which begs the question 'where did the saying come from?'. I'm sure
there's a botanical reason.

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Tim-Se...ally-mean-dry-
summer/story-20952021-detail/story.html

http://www.theweatherclub.org.uk/fea...-the-folklore-
oak-and-ash

DuckDuckGo is your friend.

I have to say that I've never heard of this proverb and a quick check
around suggests I don't know anyone who has either.


It used to be a well-known saying but may have gone out of fashion,
perhaps like this one about the cuckoo:

Cuckoo, cuckoo, what do you do?
In April I open my bill;
In May I sing all day;
In June I change my tune;
In July away I fly;
In August away I must.


Or the version I learned from my mother many years ago:

The cuckoo comes in April,
He sings his song in May.
In the middle of June he changes his tune
July he flies away.


--
Visit my weather station at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.dixon4/Cumulus/index.htm

Believing is the start of everything to come. - Hayley Westenra

In article ,
says...

On Monday, 13 April 2015 18:25:00 UTC+1, Scott W wrote:

Another frequently quoted one is:
"Ne'er cast a clout till May is out."
I used to think this referred to the month - in which case it is usually correct. However, when I realised it referred to the May / hawthorn tree (referring to the tree's blossom) I am not so sure of its reliability.

A clout is a target. Any bit of litter stuck in a hedge. Such a target in that season would be used for ploughing. In other words, it is never too late to plough if the first hedge bushes are not in flower.

I imagine a farmer can wait for the weather to get the fields ploughed in the most suitable condition.
Hardly a weather lore.



The clout part most definitely refers to your winter clothing. There is
no doubt about that. There is still much doubt as to whether the saying
refers to the Mey flower or the month of May.

Personally, I think it is the month. Cold snaps in May were more common
in the 18thC when this saying appears to have originated. Certainly,
there are plenty of references from that time that spell May rather than
Mey as would have been expected if it refered to the Hawthorn. However,
misspellings were, of course, very common then too.


--
Alan LeHun
Reply-to is valid. Add "BPSF" to subject: to bypass spam filters.

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 2:51:11 AM UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Monday, 13 April 2015 18:25:00 UTC+1, Scott W wrote:

Another frequently quoted one is:
"Ne'er cast a clout till May is out."
I used to think this referred to the month - in which case it is usually correct. However, when I realised it referred to the May / hawthorn tree (referring to the tree's blossom) I am not so sure of its reliability.

A clout is a target. Any bit of litter stuck in a hedge. Such a target in that season would be used for ploughing. In other words, it is never too late to plough if the first hedge bushes are not in flower.

I imagine a farmer can wait for the weather to get the fields ploughed in the most suitable condition.
Hardly a weather lore.



The clout part most definitely refers to your winter clothing. There is
no doubt about that. There is still much doubt as to whether the saying
refers to the Mey flower or the month of May.

Personally, I think it is the month. Cold snaps in May were more common
in the 18thC when this saying appears to have originated. Certainly,
there are plenty of references from that time that spell May rather than
Mey as would have been expected if it refered to the Hawthorn. However,
misspellings were, of course, very common then too.


--
Alan LeHun
Reply-to is valid. Add "BPSF" to subject: to bypass spam filters.

Agreed. W is in the cloud cuckoo land which is his usual abode.

On 14/04/15 16:11, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Monday, 13 April 2015 12:44:49 UTC+1, Asha Santon wrote:
On 13/04/15 12:30, Scott W wrote:
Which begs the question 'where did the saying come from?'. I'm
sure there's a botanical reason.

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Tim-Se...ail/story.html



http://www.theweatherclub.org.uk/fea...re-oak-and-ash

DuckDuckGo is your friend.

I have to say that I've never heard of this proverb and a quick
check around suggests I don't know anyone who has either.

At a guess, I'd say duckduckgo isn't a friend of yours. Do you get
lonely? You should get into geology. It's ideal work for an outgoing
personality with no friends.

It's the only search engine I use and took the opportunity to promote it.
No, I never get lonely. What's it like?
On the basis of your description, I am very obviously not the right type
of person to engage in geology although I have been known to pick up
pretty stones from the beach. That probably doesn't count and no doubt
stems from being deprived of beaches during my early childhood.



--
AS
http://minnies.opcop.org.uk/

At a guess, I'd say duckduckgo isn't a friend of yours. Do you
get
lonely? You should get into geology. It's ideal work for an
outgoing
personality with no friends.

Shows how much you know about geologists. They love going to
outcrops in company with lots of friends and discussing the
processes that resulted in that particular feature. Or sitting
over cups of coffee or pints of beer with lots of friends
discussing the processes that resulted in various rock
phenomena. Very sociable people indeed, are geologists.

Anne

On 15/04/15 02:51, Alan LeHun wrote:

The clout part most definitely refers to your winter clothing. There is
no doubt about that. There is still much doubt as to whether the saying
refers to the Mey flower or the month of May.

Personally, I think it is the month.

The clout does indeed refer to winter clothing and having checked with
the available ancestors (so three generations ago and three cultures),
there appears to have never been any doubt that May referred to hawthorn.

The fact that a proverb was devised would suggest there was a variable
involved in the matter (red sky at night, oak or ash, etc) and the first
of June is not a variable. The flowering of the hawthorn is.


--
AS
http://minnies.opcop.org.uk/

"Anne B" wrote in message ...
At a guess, I'd say duckduckgo isn't a friend of yours. Do you get
lonely? You should get into geology. It's ideal work for an outgoing
personality with no friends.

Shows how much you know about geologists. They love going to outcrops in company with
lots of friends and discussing the processes that resulted in that particular feature.
Or sitting over cups of coffee or pints of beer with lots of friends discussing the
processes that resulted in various rock phenomena. Very sociable people indeed, are
geologists.

Anne

Hear Hear!

Phil

On 15/04/2015 14:09, philgurr wrote:
"Anne B" wrote in message ...
At a guess, I'd say duckduckgo isn't a friend of yours. Do you get
lonely? You should get into geology. It's ideal work for an outgoing
personality with no friends.

Shows how much you know about geologists. They love going to outcrops in company with
lots of friends and discussing the processes that resulted in that particular feature.
Or sitting over cups of coffee or pints of beer with lots of friends discussing the
processes that resulted in various rock phenomena. Very sociable people indeed, are
geologists.

Anne

Hear Hear!

Phil



Seconded, or is it thirded now? Same applies to glider pilots by the way.

--
George in Swanston, Edinburgh, 580'asl
www.swanstonweather.co.uk
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk