So determined and so willing to believe the AGW hype that is promoted by groups who gain political as well as financial reward to promote and exacerbate the effects of any global warming, that naïve and opportunist people still attempt to circumnavigate the Polar Ocean. Another (yawn) group has set sail to prove the Arctic ice has disappeared; but yet again the 'useful idiots hit the cold ice wall of reality

Here straight from the distressed Polar Bears mouth

http://polarocean.co.uk/two-problems...-ice-red-tape/

We have this report from David Hempleman-Adams


"So we are in Murmansk. Last night was the survivors dinner for the crew that brought the yacht from Bristol. Lots of Vodka and lots of relief

Now Northabout is in the Commercial dock. A small yacht surrounded by huge container carrying freighters.

Our latest news is we have problems on two fronts

Ironically whilst the NW passage is now nearly open way ahead of schedule on the north east passage the route is Solid ice right up to the land and is the worst for many years. We are trying to predict when to leave as it will take 10 days to get to that point. Will it have changed by then. We don’t want to be stuck in the ice waiting. We also don’t want to miss an opportunity when we are sat in Murmansk. What to do !"


I have to ask: Is the bandwagon of dangerous AGW just another Ponzi scheme?

On Saturday, 16 July 2016 22:51:07 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
So determined and so willing to believe the AGW hype that is promoted by groups who gain political as well as financial reward to promote and exacerbate the effects of any global warming, that naïve and opportunist people still attempt to circumnavigate the Polar Ocean. Another (yawn) group has set sail to prove the Arctic ice has disappeared; but yet again the 'useful idiots hit the cold ice wall of reality

Here straight from the distressed Polar Bears mouth

http://polarocean.co.uk/two-problems...-ice-red-tape/

We have this report from David Hempleman-Adams


"So we are in Murmansk. Last night was the survivors dinner for the crew that brought the yacht from Bristol. Lots of Vodka and lots of relief

Now Northabout is in the Commercial dock. A small yacht surrounded by huge container carrying freighters.

Our latest news is we have problems on two fronts

Ironically whilst the NW passage is now nearly open way ahead of schedule on the north east passage the route is Solid ice right up to the land and is the worst for many years. We are trying to predict when to leave as it will take 10 days to get to that point. Will it have changed by then. We don’t want to be stuck in the ice waiting. We also don’t want to miss an opportunity when we are sat in Murmansk. What to do !"


I have to ask: Is the bandwagon of dangerous AGW just another Ponzi scheme?



Oh well at best you could say 'their hearts are in the right place' (usually slightly to the left at the front just under the ribcage) but the 'Polar Ocean Challenge' is becoming very challenging on many levels.

http://polarocean.co.uk/

Of course the aim of the expedition is to show the world that the Arctic sea ice is rapidly retreating and bemoan the fact that less ice is due to human activity . But they are now several days out of Murmansk knowing that the mission is on the edge of failure as there is still an impenetrable wall of ice
awaiting which is three days sailing away and that will need at least a southerly wind which possibly could push the ice off shore. At the moment the expeditions fate is more than in the balance for failure.

David Hempleman-Adams has updated the website this morning and says this

"Woke up to being a grumpy old man.

Partly checked the new ice charts on www.nsra.ru we still have no chance of getting through yet, not past the cape or through the Laptev sea. Nikolai, Our Russian Captain who is very familiar with this route, impresses on me that this is a very unusual year and normally clear, Not what I want to hear. We are under sail, so saving fuel, and will find a small island to shelter until we get improvements. We are still 5 days from the ice, so lets hope for some southerly winds to push the ice from shore.




I have to say as someone who accepts the planet has warmed but not driven solely by human C02 and this warming is being spun to death I do find a certain ironic pleasure in the fact this expedition is all about bemoaning the growing lack of ice and here they are on the cusp of mission failure now bemoaning too much ice. Surely the fact the ice is there is cause for celebration.

This is just the start of circumnavigating the Arctic ice cap in a counter clockwise route.

Its funny regardless of the dangers of their small boat being trapped in ice its very hard nowadays to be concerned. When the Sir William Franklin expedition set sail in 1845, for me as I live down the road from the Crystal Palace site where remains are still on view , the original CP was built for the great exhibition in Hyde Park in 1851 and then on Penge common in 1854, it reminds me that the Franklin expedition historically is still so close in time, yet when the Erebus and Terror set sail from Greenhithe on the Thames once they were out of sight that was it all contact lost unless relayed by those that may have crossed their path on their journey.

So in just little under two hundred years we have two well stocked well crewed ships going out literally into the unknown and never to return but now we have this little boat it seems impossible that any harm can come to them..

There you go , if you read this you have to note it was a complete waste of time and effort.

On Saturday, 23 July 2016 10:01:31 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
On Saturday, 16 July 2016 22:51:07 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
So determined and so willing to believe the AGW hype that is promoted by groups who gain political as well as financial reward to promote and exacerbate the effects of any global warming, that naïve and opportunist people still attempt to circumnavigate the Polar Ocean. Another (yawn) group has set sail to prove the Arctic ice has disappeared; but yet again the 'useful idiots hit the cold ice wall of reality

Here straight from the distressed Polar Bears mouth

http://polarocean.co.uk/two-problems...-ice-red-tape/

We have this report from David Hempleman-Adams


"So we are in Murmansk. Last night was the survivors dinner for the crew that brought the yacht from Bristol. Lots of Vodka and lots of relief

Now Northabout is in the Commercial dock. A small yacht surrounded by huge container carrying freighters.

Our latest news is we have problems on two fronts

Ironically whilst the NW passage is now nearly open way ahead of schedule on the north east passage the route is Solid ice right up to the land and is the worst for many years. We are trying to predict when to leave as it will take 10 days to get to that point. Will it have changed by then. We don’t want to be stuck in the ice waiting. We also don’t want to miss an opportunity when we are sat in Murmansk. What to do !"


I have to ask: Is the bandwagon of dangerous AGW just another Ponzi scheme?



Oh well at best you could say 'their hearts are in the right place' (usually slightly to the left at the front just under the ribcage) but the 'Polar Ocean Challenge' is becoming very challenging on many levels.

http://polarocean.co.uk/

Of course the aim of the expedition is to show the world that the Arctic sea ice is rapidly retreating and bemoan the fact that less ice is due to human activity . But they are now several days out of Murmansk knowing that the mission is on the edge of failure as there is still an impenetrable wall of ice
awaiting which is three days sailing away and that will need at least a southerly wind which possibly could push the ice off shore. At the moment the expeditions fate is more than in the balance for failure.

David Hempleman-Adams has updated the website this morning and says this

"Woke up to being a grumpy old man.

Partly checked the new ice charts on www.nsra.ru we still have no chance of getting through yet, not past the cape or through the Laptev sea. Nikolai, Our Russian Captain who is very familiar with this route, impresses on me that this is a very unusual year and normally clear, Not what I want to hear. We are under sail, so saving fuel, and will find a small island to shelter until we get improvements. We are still 5 days from the ice, so lets hope for some southerly winds to push the ice from shore.




I have to say as someone who accepts the planet has warmed but not driven solely by human C02 and this warming is being spun to death I do find a certain ironic pleasure in the fact this expedition is all about bemoaning the growing lack of ice and here they are on the cusp of mission failure now bemoaning too much ice. Surely the fact the ice is there is cause for celebration.

This is just the start of circumnavigating the Arctic ice cap in a counter clockwise route.

Its funny regardless of the dangers of their small boat being trapped in ice its very hard nowadays to be concerned. When the Sir William Franklin expedition set sail in 1845, for me as I live down the road from the Crystal Palace site where remains are still on view , the original CP was built for the great exhibition in Hyde Park in 1851 and then on Penge common in 1854, it reminds me that the Franklin expedition historically is still so close in time, yet when the Erebus and Terror set sail from Greenhithe on the Thames once they were out of sight that was it all contact lost unless relayed by those that may have crossed their path on their journey.

So in just little under two hundred years we have two well stocked well crewed ships going out literally into the unknown and never to return but now we have this little boat it seems impossible that any harm can come to them.

There you go , if you read this you have to note it was a complete waste of time and effort.



STOP PRESS!!!!!

There's a rumour going around that they will use the services of a Russian ice breaker-now that will be man made ice depletion and will thoroughly prove once and for all that humans did it.

Have to see how this one goes.

On Saturday, 16 July 2016 22:51:07 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
So determined and so willing to believe the AGW hype that is promoted by groups who gain political as well as financial reward to promote and exacerbate the effects of any global warming, that naïve and opportunist people still attempt to circumnavigate the Polar Ocean. Another (yawn) group has set sail to prove the Arctic ice has disappeared; but yet again the 'useful idiots hit the cold ice wall of reality

Here straight from the distressed Polar Bears mouth

http://polarocean.co.uk/two-problems...-ice-red-tape/

We have this report from David Hempleman-Adams


"So we are in Murmansk. Last night was the survivors dinner for the crew that brought the yacht from Bristol. Lots of Vodka and lots of relief

Now Northabout is in the Commercial dock. A small yacht surrounded by huge container carrying freighters.

Our latest news is we have problems on two fronts

Ironically whilst the NW passage is now nearly open way ahead of schedule on the north east passage the route is Solid ice right up to the land and is the worst for many years. We are trying to predict when to leave as it will take 10 days to get to that point. Will it have changed by then. We don’t want to be stuck in the ice waiting. We also don’t want to miss an opportunity when we are sat in Murmansk. What to do !"


I have to ask: Is the bandwagon of dangerous AGW just another Ponzi scheme?


Update

In their quest to prove to the world via BBC's Radio 4 and any left media that will have them, that the Arctic ice is now so depleted in the late summer months that its a 'breeze' to circumnavigate the NE and NW arctic passages, our intrepid bull ****ers have parked themselves in a bay in the remote Russian Archipelago called Ostrov Pilota Makhotkina , where they've been holed up for almost a week.

Most rational people would ask why? Well when it comes to AGW we are not dealing with rational people so for the BBC , Guardian MYT etc. Let me tell you why. THERE IS TOO MUCH BLOODY ICE !!!!!!!!

Of course David Hempleman -Adams the expedition leader noted when navigating these bleak isolated islands how they were once busy with human activity as seen in wooden tower structures, well in the 30's before nuclear powered ice breakers Stalin had to use the route to transport his never ending supply of political prisoners to Siberia-so right up Garvey's street this one. But the fact the waters were once so free of ice and that the route was for hundreds of thousands of purge victims of the left was totally lost on Adams.

Anyway the Northabout doesn't worry about such small things, no, its on a mission to show there is no sea-ice and to help prove that it has to wait hoping the ice will clear. But do not fret as this ship of fools has a happy hour every day and because there is still no as yet setting sun and darkness its hard to know exactly when this 'happy hour ' is . So our eco warriors get ****ed every day on Vodka and have no shame in doing so or telling the world. I'd defy any AGW concerned citizen trying to save the world , to look at their daily ships log and find me a page where vodka consumption isn't mentioned

http://polarocean.co.uk/

What a shower

By the way they are still anchored up as the Vilitsky Strait is still chocker blocked with ...erm............... sea-ice which really isn't there.

PT Barnum way under estimated the amount of suckers

"Lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, 16 July 2016 22:51:07 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
Snip endless reams of politically-inspired tosh

And you wonder why most here think you're such an idiot?

Meanwhile, back in reality: For anyone who hasn't been following this
expedition closely, the actual story is as follows:

Arctic sea-ice is currently close to (though not breaking) record low
levels. Of course this does not mean that there is no ice nor even that it
should be possible easily to circumnavigate the pole, which seems to be the
expedition's aim. There is, as always for now at least, considerable
residual ice and this particular year prevailing weather patterns have
somewhat changed the peripheral distribution of the ice in the Arctic.

In recent years the typical pattern has been for the NE passage (ie via the
Russian coast) to clear first and for the NW passage (via the Canada/Alaska
coast) to clear much later, if at all (fully). But the distribution is
rather different this year in that the NW passage is closest to opening
first, while a significant section of the NE passage remains blocked (though
now starting to clear quite quickly).

So there's a good indication that the expedition will successfully complete
its mission, though the voyage is in a small yacht and looks likely to take
several weeks yet. If it ends up taking too long for the yacht to reach the
narrower passages through the Canadian archipelago then there's some
possibility that adverse weather may have started to cause refreezing of the
ice there, but with luck they'll beat that. If they had chosen to go
clockwise rather than anticlockwise around the pole this year then maybe
more progress could have been made by now, but that's weather for you.

That's the simple truth as anyone can easily verify from sites like NSIDC.
But then Lawrence probably believes that those pesky satellites have been
fiddling their own data. Can't trust anyone you know.

On Sunday, 7 August 2016 09:18:41 UTC+1, JohnD wrote:
"Lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, 16 July 2016 22:51:07 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
Snip endless reams of politically-inspired tosh

And you wonder why most here think you're such an idiot?

Meanwhile, back in reality: For anyone who hasn't been following this
expedition closely, the actual story is as follows:

Arctic sea-ice is currently close to (though not breaking) record low
levels. Of course this does not mean that there is no ice nor even that it
should be possible easily to circumnavigate the pole, which seems to be the
expedition's aim. There is, as always for now at least, considerable
residual ice and this particular year prevailing weather patterns have
somewhat changed the peripheral distribution of the ice in the Arctic.

In recent years the typical pattern has been for the NE passage (ie via the
Russian coast) to clear first and for the NW passage (via the Canada/Alaska
coast) to clear much later, if at all (fully). But the distribution is
rather different this year in that the NW passage is closest to opening
first, while a significant section of the NE passage remains blocked (though
now starting to clear quite quickly).

So there's a good indication that the expedition will successfully complete
its mission, though the voyage is in a small yacht and looks likely to take
several weeks yet. If it ends up taking too long for the yacht to reach the
narrower passages through the Canadian archipelago then there's some
possibility that adverse weather may have started to cause refreezing of the
ice there, but with luck they'll beat that. If they had chosen to go
clockwise rather than anticlockwise around the pole this year then maybe
more progress could have been made by now, but that's weather for you.

That's the simple truth as anyone can easily verify from sites like NSIDC..
But then Lawrence probably believes that those pesky satellites have been
fiddling their own data. Can't trust anyone you know.



John, what is the purpose of this expedition ?

Also your statement below.

"that adverse weather may have started to cause refreezing of the
ice there, but with luck they'll beat that."


So you want there to be no ice to prove that the ice is melting. I thought people like you and those on the 'pleasure boat' Northabout were concerned that the Arctic ice had reduced so much due to AGW that this mission was to raise this issue to the world. So if they can't actually proceed as the sea-ice that has been there since last winter is blocking their way , doesn't that negate the whole purpose of the mission. In addition that fact that in reality as the 'pesky' Satellites keep showing the ice is there blocking the NE route so as you all are so worried that it may have disappeared why do you say

"but with luck they'll beat that."

Surely all of you prophecies of doom have been unfounded so you should be joyous and not hoping the ice clears . You people need to make your minds up . Do you want there to be sea -ice or not! Seems to me you are wishing the sea-ice away.

"Lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

Do you want there to be sea -ice or not!

I don't 'want' anything re Arctic sea-ice - I'm happy to let the facts speak
for themselves. What will be will be.

But it's obvious to anyone with two brain cells to run together (and who
hasn't closed their mind totally to the possibility for bizarre political
reasons) that the summer Arctic sea-ice extent is declining steadily, almost
certainly as a result of AGW, albeit with year-to-year variations in
decrement and distribution according to seasonal weather patterns, El
Nino/La Nina effects etc. A new record low is reached only every few years
with higher minima in between

This PolarOcean expedition is something I'd regard as a high-risk stunt with
perhaps only a 50/50 chance of success even at the outset and not
particularly something I'd support. I suspect that the organisers were
driven more by publicity-seeking than anything else - I'd guess that it's
going to be another 5-10 years before this type of voyage is more routinely
possible in late summer and they probably ought to have waited a few more
years. But it's perhaps inevitable that such adventurers are brave
individuals, foolhardy even, rather than objective scientific analysts. But
you were the one who chose to highlight it, otherwise it would probably have
gone unmentioned. But having started the thread it's important that the
facts are out there too rather than your attempts to twist and pervert the
picture.

Lawrence, look at this:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/fi...08/Figure3.png

What is it about this graph that you want to challenge? The average decline
is relentless, down ~25% in July extent in 35 years. Year on year, the
change is small and, clearly, some years extent is greater than the year
before. But the long-term trend is unmistakeable even, surely, to your eyes?
In another 25-30 years we'll likely be down to a July extent of 5-6Msqkm.

On 07/08/2016 11:31, JohnD wrote:
Lawrence, look at this:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/fi...08/Figure3.png

What is it about this graph that you want to challenge? The average
decline is relentless, down ~25% in July extent in 35 years. Year on
year, the change is small and, clearly, some years extent is greater
than the year before. But the long-term trend is unmistakeable even,
surely, to your eyes? In another 25-30 years we'll likely be down to a
July extent of 5-6Msqkm.

He'll just claim it's all fabricated, just like he usually does when
confronted with irrefutable evidence.

At that level, you really can't argue with a conspiracy theorist!

--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

On Sunday, 7 August 2016 12:32:56 UTC+1, Col wrote:
On 07/08/2016 11:31, JohnD wrote:
Lawrence, look at this:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/fi...08/Figure3.png

What is it about this graph that you want to challenge? The average
decline is relentless, down ~25% in July extent in 35 years. Year on
year, the change is small and, clearly, some years extent is greater
than the year before. But the long-term trend is unmistakeable even,
surely, to your eyes? In another 25-30 years we'll likely be down to a
July extent of 5-6Msqkm.

He'll just claim it's all fabricated, just like he usually does when
confronted with irrefutable evidence.

At that level, you really can't argue with a conspiracy theorist!

--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg



I never mentioned 'conspiracy' but as John as stated , the whole mission is a stunt and I think John agrees serves no purpose but to lie. I say that because the ethos of this mission is to prove AGW has reduced the sea ice so much that it is now possible to easily sail through the NE passage and later the NW passage. This is being featured on mainstream media like the BBC Radio 4 and is giving the impression that the NE passage is open for business all through the NH summer when in fact no sane merchant shipping operator would dare risk it unless they have to or can pay the bill to the Russian Ice-Breakers. Now if they fail to succeed which it looks like every possibly that they will I guarantee the BBC won't even mention it and will drop the story like a hot potato. However the gullible public in an age of media deceit will when AGW comes up at dinner party conversations will talk of how all the ice has now gone and ships now use the NW and NE passage.

It is a lie to perpetrate the myth that we are all doomed. Now Col you can now possibly cry 'conspiracy theory'. But the impression given by the luvvie left media especially, is that there is no ice up there at all. lets see what happens if they can't get through. Then lets see if the BBC give serious coverage to the sea ice coverage that was not meant to be there.

Its funny I'm really pleased the ice is there whilst the AGW's curse its existence

The other thing is I would add is the fact the whole crew seem like a bunch of **** artists with vodka consumption talked about in every ships log.