On 21/01/2017 05:20, wrote:
On Saturday, 21 January 2017 02:43:08 UTC+3, Adam Lea wrote:
On 20/01/2017 12:16, wrote:


I hope they do. Sadly it won't be enough to scupper the process but I'll be damned if the Brexiteers think they are going to get an easy ride on this. Everything(legal of course) should be done to stop this madness.

Col


Brexit is happening whether we like it or not. I think it is best to
accept what is happening and hope that the UK does come out as well as
it can. If the exit is bad for the UK then it may well affect a lot of
us adversely, so wishing for it to be hard makes no sense to me. I also
hope that the outcome ultimately turns out better than expected, that
won't be known until some time after we have left properly.

I am not yet 100% convinced this will even happen at all. Call it clutching at straws if you like but there are many twists & turns yet to go on this. Remember the referendum reult isn't leglly binsing and there will be a vote in Parliament to implement Brexit assuming the Supreme Court decision goes against the Government. It should be made hard for the Brexiteers in the sense that it should be fought all the way and certainly to get as 'soft' a Brexit as reasonably possible. There was no mention of the type of Brexit on the ballot paper so all tht is still up for grabs. Nigel Farage said before the vote that if the result was 52-48 in favour of remain then the matter wouldn't be over by a long shot, well now it's the reverse result then the matter can't be consider to be over either.

Col

I admire your attitude, I don't have so much hope myself. Although the
referendum was only advisory I think it would be very politically
dangerous for Parliment to vote against the will of the people (a very
marginal leave vote admittedly). Sit back and watch the uproar, the far
right are amongst the most vocal and will be furious if Parliment vote
to remain.

If it does turn out to be a disaster (and although I voted remain I hope
it doesn't), I hope more is made of the generational differences in
voting. The younger generations on average voted to remain whereas the
older generations voted to leave, but more older people use their vote.
This result might point out to the young adults the importance of using
your vote if you don't want to spend the rest of your life being shouted
down by the pensioners.

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
On 21/01/2017 08:55, Keith (Southend) wrote:
On 21/01/2017 07:34, Vidcapper wrote:
On 21/01/2017 05:20, wrote:


That's not what *I* voted for!




What did you vote for? As with the Trump presidency many have just
assumed a *change* is going to improve things for themselves. No one
knows whether it will or won't. I guess for me it was a case of better
the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Europe's big mistake is it's continued intransigence on immigration, I understand the
basic principle, but in the current world we live in, it could be the breakup of Europe.
After all, this was the main reason people voted leave here.

Keith, this is a weather news group and you must understand that
on the Brexit vote, your views will annoy 50% of the members. If you
must discuss politics, please do so in the appropriate group.

Phil

On 21/01/2017 09:17, philgurr wrote:
"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message


Keith, this is a weather news group and you must understand that
on the Brexit vote, your views will annoy 50% of the members. If you
must discuss politics, please do so in the appropriate group.

Phil



Understood, I just get fed up wit hearing only one side of the argument.

--
Keith (Southend)
"Weather Home & Abroad"
http://www.southendweather.net
Twitter:@SS9Weatherman

On Saturday, 21 January 2017 12:17:02 UTC+3, philgurr wrote:
"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
On 21/01/2017 08:55, Keith (Southend) wrote:
On 21/01/2017 07:34, Vidcapper wrote:
On 21/01/2017 05:20, wrote:


That's not what *I* voted for!




What did you vote for? As with the Trump presidency many have just
assumed a *change* is going to improve things for themselves. No one
knows whether it will or won't. I guess for me it was a case of better
the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Europe's big mistake is it's continued intransigence on immigration, I understand the
basic principle, but in the current world we live in, it could be the breakup of Europe.
After all, this was the main reason people voted leave here.

Keith, this is a weather news group and you must understand that
on the Brexit vote, your views will annoy 50% of the members. If you
must discuss politics, please do so in the appropriate group.

But it might only annoy 48.1% so that would be OK. Perhaps we should hold a referendum to decide the matter?

Seriously though, this thread was started by Egginton who never talks about the weather anyway so anybody opening it and reading the posts would expect to find politically themed content. Personally that's fine by me as it keeps all the OT stuff neatly in one easily identifiable thread. It's not as if it's a weather thread that has drifted towards discussing Brexit which I agree would be a lot more annoying.

Col

On Saturday, 21 January 2017 11:31:04 UTC+3, Graham P Davis wrote:
On 21/01/17 05:20, wrote:
On Saturday, 21 January 2017 02:43:08 UTC+3, Adam Lea wrote:
On 20/01/2017 12:16, wrote:


I hope they do. Sadly it won't be enough to scupper the process
but I'll be damned if the Brexiteers think they are going to get
an easy ride on this. Everything(legal of course) should be done
to stop this madness.

Col


Brexit is happening whether we like it or not. I think it is best
to accept what is happening and hope that the UK does come out as
well as it can. If the exit is bad for the UK then it may well
affect a lot of us adversely, so wishing for it to be hard makes no
sense to me. I also hope that the outcome ultimately turns out
better than expected, that won't be known until some time after we
have left properly.

I am not yet 100% convinced this will even happen at all. Call it
clutching at straws if you like but there are many twists & turns yet
to go on this. Remember the referendum reult isn't legally binding and
there will be a vote in Parliament to implement Brexit assuming the
Supreme Court decision goes against the Government. It should be made
hard for the Brexiteers in the sense that it should be fought all the
way and certainly to get as 'soft' a Brexit as reasonably possible.
There was no mention of the type of Brexit on the ballot paper so all
that is still up for grabs. Nigel Farage said before the vote that if
the result was 52-48 in favour of remain then the matter wouldn't be
over by a long shot, well now it's the reverse result then the matter
can't be consider to be over either.


If this referendum had been run under the Tory proposals for Trade Union
reform, it would have been declared an insufficient mandate for Brexit
negotiations to go ahead. Those proposals required at least 40% of
registered members of the union to have voted for a proposal, in this
case the vote for Brexit comprised only 37.4% of the electorate. Under
those proposals for TU reform, even if nobody had voted for Remain, the
vote for Brexit would have been deemed to have failed.

Whilst I can't agree with the TU reform package, I felt at the time that
a decision of this magnitude should have required a majority of the
electorate to vote for a change rather than merely a majority of those
who could be bothered to vote.


If you cannot be bothered to vote in a referendum such as this then the only conclusion I can draw is that you aren't bothered about the outcome.
Therefore as far as the decision process goes their views are irrelevant & inconsequential.

Col

On Saturday, 21 January 2017 12:07:44 UTC+3, Adam Lea wrote:
On 21/01/2017 05:20, wrote:


I am not yet 100% convinced this will even happen at all. Call it clutching at straws if you like but there are many twists & turns yet to go on this. Remember the referendum reult isn't leglly binsing and there will be a vote in Parliament to implement Brexit assuming the Supreme Court decision goes against the Government. It should be made hard for the Brexiteers in the sense that it should be fought all the way and certainly to get as 'soft' a Brexit as reasonably possible. There was no mention of the type of Brexit on the ballot paper so all tht is still up for grabs. Nigel Farage said before the vote that if the result was 52-48 in favour of remain then the matter wouldn't be over by a long shot, well now it's the reverse result then the matter can't be consider to be over either.

Col

I admire your attitude, I don't have so much hope myself. Although the
referendum was only advisory I think it would be very politically
dangerous for Parliment to vote against the will of the people (a very
marginal leave vote admittedly). Sit back and watch the uproar, the far
right are amongst the most vocal and will be furious if Parliment vote
to remain.

I think it unlikely that they would but you have these rebel Labour MPs, the SNP, the Lib Dems....If it ever grew beyond a protest from a few mavericks and gained some momentum, well these things can happen.

Col

On 21/01/2017 08:33, Graham P Davis wrote:
On 21/01/17 07:31, Vidcapper wrote:

But there is nothing Remainers can do which won't **** all over our
country's democracy - and maintaining that is IMO infinitely more
important than the Brexit issue.


It's a parliamentary democracy in which referenda are only advisory.


The danger is in the notion that politicians can ignore votes they don't
like.

This is what it can lead to :

http://time.com/4637607/gambia-how-i...-yahya-jammeh/



--

Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

On 21/01/2017 08:31, Graham P Davis wrote:


If this referendum had been run under the Tory proposals for Trade Union
reform, it would have been declared an insufficient mandate for Brexit
negotiations to go ahead. Those proposals required at least 40% of
registered members of the union to have voted for a proposal, in this
case the vote for Brexit comprised only 37.4% of the electorate. Under
those proposals for TU reform, even if nobody had voted for Remain, the
vote for Brexit would have been deemed to have failed.

Whilst I can't agree with the TU reform package, I felt at the time that
a decision of this magnitude should have required a majority of the
electorate to vote for a change rather than merely a majority of those
who could be bothered to vote.

But the government would be extremely foolish to impose preconditions
that they themselves would fail to have been elected under!


--

Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

On 21/01/17 15:25, Vidcapper wrote:
On 21/01/2017 08:31, Graham P Davis wrote:


If this referendum had been run under the Tory proposals for Trade Union
reform, it would have been declared an insufficient mandate for Brexit
negotiations to go ahead. Those proposals required at least 40% of
registered members of the union to have voted for a proposal, in this
case the vote for Brexit comprised only 37.4% of the electorate. Under
those proposals for TU reform, even if nobody had voted for Remain, the
vote for Brexit would have been deemed to have failed.

Whilst I can't agree with the TU reform package, I felt at the time that
a decision of this magnitude should have required a majority of the
electorate to vote for a change rather than merely a majority of those
who could be bothered to vote.

But the government would be extremely foolish to impose preconditions
that they themselves would fail to have been elected under!



Didn’t stop them trying it on for the Unions. And when has being
extremely foolish been a problem for politicians? ;-)

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. [Retd meteorologist/programmer]
Web-site: http://www.scarlet-jade.com/
There are more fools than knaves in the world, else the knaves would
not have enough to live upon. [Samuel Butler]

On 21/01/2017 15:38, Graham P Davis wrote:
On 21/01/17 15:25, Vidcapper wrote:
On 21/01/2017 08:31, Graham P Davis wrote:


If this referendum had been run under the Tory proposals for Trade Union
reform, it would have been declared an insufficient mandate for Brexit
negotiations to go ahead. Those proposals required at least 40% of
registered members of the union to have voted for a proposal, in this
case the vote for Brexit comprised only 37.4% of the electorate. Under
those proposals for TU reform, even if nobody had voted for Remain, the
vote for Brexit would have been deemed to have failed.

Whilst I can't agree with the TU reform package, I felt at the time that
a decision of this magnitude should have required a majority of the
electorate to vote for a change rather than merely a majority of those
who could be bothered to vote.

But the government would be extremely foolish to impose preconditions
that they themselves would fail to have been elected under!



Didn’t stop them trying it on for the Unions. And when has being
extremely foolish been a problem for politicians? ;-)

Which takes us back nicely to Donald Trump....