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uk.sci.weather (UK Weather) (uk.sci.weather) For the discussion of daily weather events, chiefly affecting the UK and adjacent parts of Europe, both past and predicted. The discussion is open to all, but contributions on a practical scientific level are encouraged. |
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#21
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![]() "Joe Hunt" wrote: It always amazes me how they say that no two snowflakes are exactly the same. They obviously have verified this by checking every one that has fallen from the sky, that would be ludicrous, however, I feel it must be based on some mathematical theory. This has similarities to a calculation I did at GCSE Biology which showed why no two people look alike, was to do with genotypes and chromosomes IIRC. Anyone have more of an idea than I seem to have !? This might involve a calculation which I have often promised myself that I ought to attempt, but never got round to. I am now far too old and lazy to try. That is, how many snow-flakes are there in a typical snowstorm. Work on the basis that the best snowstorm we are likely to get in the UK would cover, say, half the country with 30cm of snow, that would be 25mm x 125,000 sq km of water equivalent. And how much water in a snowflake? No idea, but not much ... less than a mm cubed, I guess. Philip Eden |
#22
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"Mike Tullett" wrote in
message A snow flake is an aggregation of tens or hundreds of separate tiny ice crystals. The latter grow within the colder parts of clouds and take on a crystal structure, well illustrated on many web pages. The growth is directly from water vapour gas to an ice crystal, with no liquid water normally involved. As the falling crystals bump into each other, they often join (at fairly high temperatures) to form what we see as a snow flake, containing much air, both in and between the crystals. If the lower air is sufficiently cold, these flakes can get all the way down to the ground, but usually they melt to produce what we see as rain. So your idea of "water expanding to form a flake" needs to be re-thought:-) This page seems to have some useful information: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s...mer/primer.htm (From Tom Allen's link http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/anyway. Error 404 File Not Found) A lot to take in and a load of links to take you off at tangents. Interesting though -if somewhat hopeful, explanation of fractals. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
#23
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"Mike Tullett" wrote in
message A snow flake is an aggregation of tens or hundreds of separate tiny ice crystals. The latter grow within the colder parts of clouds and take on a crystal structure, well illustrated on many web pages. The growth is directly from water vapour gas to an ice crystal, with no liquid water normally involved. As the falling crystals bump into each other, they often join (at fairly high temperatures) to form what we see as a snow flake, containing much air, both in and between the crystals. If the lower air is sufficiently cold, these flakes can get all the way down to the ground, but usually they melt to produce what we see as rain. So your idea of "water expanding to form a flake" needs to be re-thought:-) This page seems to have some useful information: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s...mer/primer.htm (From Tom Allen's link http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/anyway. Error 404 File Not Found) A lot to take in and a load of links to take you off at tangents. Interesting though -if somewhat hopeful, explanation of fractals. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
#24
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"Mike Tullett" wrote in
message A snow flake is an aggregation of tens or hundreds of separate tiny ice crystals. The latter grow within the colder parts of clouds and take on a crystal structure, well illustrated on many web pages. The growth is directly from water vapour gas to an ice crystal, with no liquid water normally involved. As the falling crystals bump into each other, they often join (at fairly high temperatures) to form what we see as a snow flake, containing much air, both in and between the crystals. If the lower air is sufficiently cold, these flakes can get all the way down to the ground, but usually they melt to produce what we see as rain. So your idea of "water expanding to form a flake" needs to be re-thought:-) This page seems to have some useful information: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s...mer/primer.htm (From Tom Allen's link http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/anyway. Error 404 File Not Found) A lot to take in and a load of links to take you off at tangents. Interesting though -if somewhat hopeful, explanation of fractals. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
#25
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"Mike Tullett" wrote in
message A snow flake is an aggregation of tens or hundreds of separate tiny ice crystals. The latter grow within the colder parts of clouds and take on a crystal structure, well illustrated on many web pages. The growth is directly from water vapour gas to an ice crystal, with no liquid water normally involved. As the falling crystals bump into each other, they often join (at fairly high temperatures) to form what we see as a snow flake, containing much air, both in and between the crystals. If the lower air is sufficiently cold, these flakes can get all the way down to the ground, but usually they melt to produce what we see as rain. So your idea of "water expanding to form a flake" needs to be re-thought:-) This page seems to have some useful information: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s...mer/primer.htm (From Tom Allen's link http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/anyway. Error 404 File Not Found) A lot to take in and a load of links to take you off at tangents. Interesting though -if somewhat hopeful, explanation of fractals. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
#26
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![]() "Joe Hunt" wrote in message ... It always amazes me how they say that no two snowflakes are exactly the same. They obviously have verified this by checking every one that has fallen from the sky, that would be ludicrous, however, I feel it must be based on some mathematical theory. This has similarities to a calculation I did at GCSE Biology which showed why no two people look alike, was to do with genotypes and chromosomes IIRC. Anyone have more of an idea than I seem to have !? Cheers, Joe I would say that snowflake patterns could be seen from a fractal program. -- Joe Wolverhampton |
#27
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![]() "Joe Hunt" wrote in message ... It always amazes me how they say that no two snowflakes are exactly the same. They obviously have verified this by checking every one that has fallen from the sky, that would be ludicrous, however, I feel it must be based on some mathematical theory. This has similarities to a calculation I did at GCSE Biology which showed why no two people look alike, was to do with genotypes and chromosomes IIRC. Anyone have more of an idea than I seem to have !? Cheers, Joe I would say that snowflake patterns could be seen from a fractal program. -- Joe Wolverhampton |
#28
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![]() "Joe Hunt" wrote in message ... It always amazes me how they say that no two snowflakes are exactly the same. They obviously have verified this by checking every one that has fallen from the sky, that would be ludicrous, however, I feel it must be based on some mathematical theory. This has similarities to a calculation I did at GCSE Biology which showed why no two people look alike, was to do with genotypes and chromosomes IIRC. Anyone have more of an idea than I seem to have !? Cheers, Joe I would say that snowflake patterns could be seen from a fractal program. -- Joe Wolverhampton |
#29
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![]() "Joe Hunt" wrote in message ... It always amazes me how they say that no two snowflakes are exactly the same. They obviously have verified this by checking every one that has fallen from the sky, that would be ludicrous, however, I feel it must be based on some mathematical theory. This has similarities to a calculation I did at GCSE Biology which showed why no two people look alike, was to do with genotypes and chromosomes IIRC. Anyone have more of an idea than I seem to have !? Cheers, Joe I would say that snowflake patterns could be seen from a fractal program. -- Joe Wolverhampton |
#30
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A couple of recent snowflakes re aggregation and fractal properties-
Chaos, Solitons & Fractals Volume 23, Issue 4 , February 2005, Pages 1111-1119 A local cellular model for snow crystal growth Clifford A. Reiter http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...282b20478222a5 preprint at- http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~reiterc/mvp/sfn/sfn_pp.pdf and Universality in snowflake aggregation Authors: C. D. Westbrook, R. C. Ball, P. R. Field, A. J. Heymsfield ics/0310164 http://arxiv.org/abs/phys -- regards, David add '17' to Waghorne to reply |
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