Paul, I agree that teachers, like social workers, scientists and many other
vital groups of any decent society are maligned unfairly. I think it's just
this snow thing really. I have given it some more thought and the only
possible reason I can come up with is that many teachers don't live locally
to their school anymore. Clearly some would be delayed and perhaps this
would lead to insufficient numbers to manage the students. Generally though,
some of the feeble excuses I have heard first hand from headteachers like
"the toilets might freeze" do not do justice to the education profession.

Dave

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Sorry to make an issue on this point, but listening to Essex FM this
morning only goes to show what a nation of gutless whimps we are training
our youngsters to become.
Thirty minutes after the snow started to fall we are faced on our local
radio with endless lists of school closures due to the weather, numerous
road traffic accidents and road closures.

I fully understand that with the claim culture that we now live in, head
teachers are afraid of their own shadows when it comes to a child slipping
over and having an accident on school premises.

But I also believe there is another force coming into play here. So, OK it
snows, its also a Friday, and what better than a nice long weekend for the
teaching staff. How convenient.

Yes also conveniently, it is a strange co-incidence that teachers training
days are always tagged onto weekends or school holidays, Are twelve weeks
holiday not enough?

I was at school during the winter of 1962-63 and if ever there was a case
for school closures that was the one, but no, schools stayed open and
youngsters trudged through freezing snow and ice for two months without
even a thought of schools closing.

One point that made me laugh was that some schools were closed due to
frozen pipes, at 2 Deg C.???
I would suggest that they look at the quality of their pipe lagging.

Also on the 10am news bulletin there was an article concerning the
"severe" cold snap we were suffering and the new danger that had suddenly
arisen at our very own doorsteps. The danger of slipping over on the
pavement outside in the snow.

well I for one am glad that they told me about this, because at the age of
51, I had never encountered this before and I am eternally grateful for
their concern.

Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

Regards. Len
Yes Len I had the same experience at work earlier..erm yesterday morning..

The snow started to fall in SE london around 8am, by the time I got to work
there was a couple of cm of snow, I knew it wouldn't last too long long but
immediatley staff started complaining under H&S that they wanted the pathway
into the office gritted. I did explain that by 11am it would all be gone,
but no, they made a fuss and I had to ask our contractor to rapidly supply
some grit before the snow melted!

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Sorry to make an issue on this point, but listening to Essex FM this
morning only goes to show what a nation of gutless whimps we are training
our youngsters to become.
Thirty minutes after the snow started to fall we are faced on our local
radio with endless lists of school closures due to the weather, numerous
road traffic accidents and road closures.

I fully understand that with the claim culture that we now live in, head
teachers are afraid of their own shadows when it comes to a child slipping
over and having an accident on school premises.

But I also believe there is another force coming into play here. So, OK it
snows, its also a Friday, and what better than a nice long weekend for the
teaching staff. How convenient.

Yes also conveniently, it is a strange co-incidence that teachers training
days are always tagged onto weekends or school holidays, Are twelve weeks
holiday not enough?

I was at school during the winter of 1962-63 and if ever there was a case
for school closures that was the one, but no, schools stayed open and
youngsters trudged through freezing snow and ice for two months without
even a thought of schools closing.

One point that made me laugh was that some schools were closed due to
frozen pipes, at 2 Deg C.???
I would suggest that they look at the quality of their pipe lagging.

Also on the 10am news bulletin there was an article concerning the
"severe" cold snap we were suffering and the new danger that had suddenly
arisen at our very own doorsteps. The danger of slipping over on the
pavement outside in the snow.

well I for one am glad that they told me about this, because at the age of
51, I had never encountered this before and I am eternally grateful for
their concern.

Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

Regards. Len
Yes Len I had the same experience at work earlier..erm yesterday morning..

The snow started to fall in SE london around 8am, by the time I got to work
there was a couple of cm of snow, I knew it wouldn't last too long long but
immediatley staff started complaining under H&S that they wanted the pathway
into the office gritted. I did explain that by 11am it would all be gone,
but no, they made a fuss and I had to ask our contractor to rapidly supply
some grit before the snow melted!

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Sorry to make an issue on this point, but listening to Essex FM this
morning only goes to show what a nation of gutless whimps we are training
our youngsters to become.
Thirty minutes after the snow started to fall we are faced on our local
radio with endless lists of school closures due to the weather, numerous
road traffic accidents and road closures.

I fully understand that with the claim culture that we now live in, head
teachers are afraid of their own shadows when it comes to a child slipping
over and having an accident on school premises.

But I also believe there is another force coming into play here. So, OK it
snows, its also a Friday, and what better than a nice long weekend for the
teaching staff. How convenient.

Yes also conveniently, it is a strange co-incidence that teachers training
days are always tagged onto weekends or school holidays, Are twelve weeks
holiday not enough?

I was at school during the winter of 1962-63 and if ever there was a case
for school closures that was the one, but no, schools stayed open and
youngsters trudged through freezing snow and ice for two months without
even a thought of schools closing.

One point that made me laugh was that some schools were closed due to
frozen pipes, at 2 Deg C.???
I would suggest that they look at the quality of their pipe lagging.

Also on the 10am news bulletin there was an article concerning the
"severe" cold snap we were suffering and the new danger that had suddenly
arisen at our very own doorsteps. The danger of slipping over on the
pavement outside in the snow.

well I for one am glad that they told me about this, because at the age of
51, I had never encountered this before and I am eternally grateful for
their concern.

Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

Regards. Len
Yes Len I had the same experience at work earlier..erm yesterday morning..

The snow started to fall in SE london around 8am, by the time I got to work
there was a couple of cm of snow, I knew it wouldn't last too long long but
immediatley staff started complaining under H&S that they wanted the pathway
into the office gritted. I did explain that by 11am it would all be gone,
but no, they made a fuss and I had to ask our contractor to rapidly supply
some grit before the snow melted!

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Sorry to make an issue on this point, but listening to Essex FM this
morning only goes to show what a nation of gutless whimps we are training
our youngsters to become.
Thirty minutes after the snow started to fall we are faced on our local
radio with endless lists of school closures due to the weather, numerous
road traffic accidents and road closures.

I fully understand that with the claim culture that we now live in, head
teachers are afraid of their own shadows when it comes to a child slipping
over and having an accident on school premises.

But I also believe there is another force coming into play here. So, OK it
snows, its also a Friday, and what better than a nice long weekend for the
teaching staff. How convenient.

Yes also conveniently, it is a strange co-incidence that teachers training
days are always tagged onto weekends or school holidays, Are twelve weeks
holiday not enough?

I was at school during the winter of 1962-63 and if ever there was a case
for school closures that was the one, but no, schools stayed open and
youngsters trudged through freezing snow and ice for two months without
even a thought of schools closing.

One point that made me laugh was that some schools were closed due to
frozen pipes, at 2 Deg C.???
I would suggest that they look at the quality of their pipe lagging.

Also on the 10am news bulletin there was an article concerning the
"severe" cold snap we were suffering and the new danger that had suddenly
arisen at our very own doorsteps. The danger of slipping over on the
pavement outside in the snow.

well I for one am glad that they told me about this, because at the age of
51, I had never encountered this before and I am eternally grateful for
their concern.

Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

Regards. Len
Yes Len I had the same experience at work earlier..erm yesterday morning..

The snow started to fall in SE london around 8am, by the time I got to work
there was a couple of cm of snow, I knew it wouldn't last too long long but
immediatley staff started complaining under H&S that they wanted the pathway
into the office gritted. I did explain that by 11am it would all be gone,
but no, they made a fuss and I had to ask our contractor to rapidly supply
some grit before the snow melted!

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

While I agree that having trudged to school through several feet of snow as
a child, the current haste to close schools is a bit OTT, there is a legal
problem with your solution above. I speak as an ex-teacher married to a
deputy head (who's school stayed open last week when others around were
closing).

No school, in fact no one, can eliminate their duty of care with a memo to
parents. Several legal cases have taught schools that these disclaimers are
not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem is with the legal claim culture. Headteachers are doing what
they have to do to stay out of court.

Cheers
Mark

East Lancs - 350m ASL

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

While I agree that having trudged to school through several feet of snow as
a child, the current haste to close schools is a bit OTT, there is a legal
problem with your solution above. I speak as an ex-teacher married to a
deputy head (who's school stayed open last week when others around were
closing).

No school, in fact no one, can eliminate their duty of care with a memo to
parents. Several legal cases have taught schools that these disclaimers are
not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem is with the legal claim culture. Headteachers are doing what
they have to do to stay out of court.

Cheers
Mark

East Lancs - 350m ASL

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

While I agree that having trudged to school through several feet of snow as
a child, the current haste to close schools is a bit OTT, there is a legal
problem with your solution above. I speak as an ex-teacher married to a
deputy head (who's school stayed open last week when others around were
closing).

No school, in fact no one, can eliminate their duty of care with a memo to
parents. Several legal cases have taught schools that these disclaimers are
not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem is with the legal claim culture. Headteachers are doing what
they have to do to stay out of court.

Cheers
Mark

East Lancs - 350m ASL

"GKN" wrote in message
.uk...
Now lets get things into perspective on the subject of school closures.
All it takes is for the head teacher to issue a memorandum to all parents
and guardians stating that the school will take all reasonable care to
make sure that pathways in and around the school premises will be kept as
clear as is practical, and that no responsibility will be taken by the
school in the event of any injury caused by such. Job done.

Lets hear no more about it next winter.

While I agree that having trudged to school through several feet of snow as
a child, the current haste to close schools is a bit OTT, there is a legal
problem with your solution above. I speak as an ex-teacher married to a
deputy head (who's school stayed open last week when others around were
closing).

No school, in fact no one, can eliminate their duty of care with a memo to
parents. Several legal cases have taught schools that these disclaimers are
not worth the paper they are written on.

The problem is with the legal claim culture. Headteachers are doing what
they have to do to stay out of court.

Cheers
Mark

East Lancs - 350m ASL

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Paul C" wrote in message
...


What he says seems OK.
He says that schools should endeavour to take all 'reasonable' steps to
ensure that in wintry weather school premises are kept as safe as
possible.

What's wrong with that?

Do you think that if the school claims "no responsibility will be
taken by the school in the event of any injury caused by such", that
will be it?

Nope.

But neither he nor I claimed that such a stance was acceptable.

Col


Children slipping is just one of many, and is particularly low on the list,
of dangers that Heads have to deal with in these conditions.

The primary danger is around drop off and pick up times at teh beggining and
end of the day. In the snow, the car dependent (addicted?) parents are the
biggest danger as they skid and slide their vehicles up and down pavemnets
and along roads. Plus the very real prospect of teachers having to babysit
kids as scores of parents call in to claim they can't get to school as their
car windscreen has an inch of snow on it and they've left their gloves at
home. Heads close schools out of bitter experience - not for any cop out
reasons. The fact kids might slip in the playground is generally NOT their
main concern when taking these decisions.

And.. it's absolutely typical and not suprising that the same original
poster should take this opportunity to have a pop at teachers and school
holidays.

I am an ex-teacher married to a deputy head. I taught from Reception through
to GCSE Physics in my teaching carreer. I was a good teacher (remember
teachers get inspected and graded). But I left because of the stresses of
the job (brought on mostly by the futility of the pen pushing and form
filling). I know run my own business and generally put in 80-90 hours a week
and I've had two weeks holiday in the last 3 years. But..
I'd never go back to teaching. It's too bloody hard! It's 13 weeks holiday
BTW but in my experience very few teachers take all 13 weeks and I'll take
my current 2 weeks in 3 years over my wife's 13 weeks a year any day. My
wife averages 56 hours a week working.

Cheers
Mark