In article ,
Nick G writes:
[quoting Gavin Staples]
2C warmer than it is now. Unfortuntaley there is no way of finding out.

Are you sure? 2C warmer; globally?, where is your evidence?

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and
its border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period. I say
"now", but the degree of warming over the last couple of decades must be
getting us very closer to that level of medieval warmth.

There's plenty of evidence, not least that the Vikings were able to
successfully establish permanent settlements in the southern coastal
areas of Greenland, which failed some centuries later when the climate
turned colder. If you are interested, I can recommend HH Lamb's
"Climate, History and the Modern World", published by Methuen in 1982. I
dare say that a second-hand copy might be obtainable through
amazon.co.uk
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

In article ,
Nick G writes:
[quoting Gavin Staples]
2C warmer than it is now. Unfortuntaley there is no way of finding out.

Are you sure? 2C warmer; globally?, where is your evidence?

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and
its border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period. I say
"now", but the degree of warming over the last couple of decades must be
getting us very closer to that level of medieval warmth.

There's plenty of evidence, not least that the Vikings were able to
successfully establish permanent settlements in the southern coastal
areas of Greenland, which failed some centuries later when the climate
turned colder. If you are interested, I can recommend HH Lamb's
"Climate, History and the Modern World", published by Methuen in 1982. I
dare say that a second-hand copy might be obtainable through
amazon.co.uk
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

In article ,
Nick G writes:
[quoting Gavin Staples]
2C warmer than it is now. Unfortuntaley there is no way of finding out.

Are you sure? 2C warmer; globally?, where is your evidence?

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and
its border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period. I say
"now", but the degree of warming over the last couple of decades must be
getting us very closer to that level of medieval warmth.

There's plenty of evidence, not least that the Vikings were able to
successfully establish permanent settlements in the southern coastal
areas of Greenland, which failed some centuries later when the climate
turned colder. If you are interested, I can recommend HH Lamb's
"Climate, History and the Modern World", published by Methuen in 1982. I
dare say that a second-hand copy might be obtainable through
amazon.co.uk
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more 'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.

Maybe, (and this is pure speculation) that parts of the world (or even
globally) were not actually warmer around the AD1000 period, but the weather
patterns were different allowing for settled summers which meant that crops
such as wheat could be grown. I believe (but don't have the literature to
hand) that it was a run of wet summers (causing oat/wheat/barley crops to
fail) that caused widespread starvation in Scandinavia/Greenland during the
viking era, and this led to their eventual demize.

I have read the book by H.H. Lamb many years ago but have been unable to
track down a copy.
_______________________
Nick G
Worcester
45m amsl

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more 'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.

Maybe, (and this is pure speculation) that parts of the world (or even
globally) were not actually warmer around the AD1000 period, but the weather
patterns were different allowing for settled summers which meant that crops
such as wheat could be grown. I believe (but don't have the literature to
hand) that it was a run of wet summers (causing oat/wheat/barley crops to
fail) that caused widespread starvation in Scandinavia/Greenland during the
viking era, and this led to their eventual demize.

I have read the book by H.H. Lamb many years ago but have been unable to
track down a copy.
_______________________
Nick G
Worcester
45m amsl

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more 'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.

Maybe, (and this is pure speculation) that parts of the world (or even
globally) were not actually warmer around the AD1000 period, but the weather
patterns were different allowing for settled summers which meant that crops
such as wheat could be grown. I believe (but don't have the literature to
hand) that it was a run of wet summers (causing oat/wheat/barley crops to
fail) that caused widespread starvation in Scandinavia/Greenland during the
viking era, and this led to their eventual demize.

I have read the book by H.H. Lamb many years ago but have been unable to
track down a copy.
_______________________
Nick G
Worcester
45m amsl

I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more 'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.

Maybe, (and this is pure speculation) that parts of the world (or even
globally) were not actually warmer around the AD1000 period, but the weather
patterns were different allowing for settled summers which meant that crops
such as wheat could be grown. I believe (but don't have the literature to
hand) that it was a run of wet summers (causing oat/wheat/barley crops to
fail) that caused widespread starvation in Scandinavia/Greenland during the
viking era, and this led to their eventual demize.

I have read the book by H.H. Lamb many years ago but have been unable to
track down a copy.
_______________________
Nick G
Worcester
45m amsl

Nick G wrote:
I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But
it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the
North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean
and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me
is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the
ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where
summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even
warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more
'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.


Nick, the recent GISP2 ice cores from Greenland do show the MWP and LIA
quite well - check out this graph taken from Prof Richard Muller's
website:

http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/Image2.gif

As for Kilimanjaro, didn't those glaciers only form 11,7000 years ago -
after the end of the last Ice Age? ie when global temps ROSE. A
indication surely that in this case, local precipitation is far more
important than temperature.

Andy

Nick G wrote:
I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But
it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the
North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean
and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me
is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the
ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where
summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even
warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more
'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.


Nick, the recent GISP2 ice cores from Greenland do show the MWP and LIA
quite well - check out this graph taken from Prof Richard Muller's
website:

http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/Image2.gif

As for Kilimanjaro, didn't those glaciers only form 11,7000 years ago -
after the end of the last Ice Age? ie when global temps ROSE. A
indication surely that in this case, local precipitation is far more
important than temperature.

Andy

Nick G wrote:
I don't know about 2C, and globally would be an exaggeration. But
it was
certainly warmer in the Middle Ages than it is now in Europe, the
North
Atlantic, much of the Arctic and North America. The Pacific Ocean
and its
border regions seem to have missed out on this warm period.

I know what you mean about the 'warmer' middle ages. What puzzles me
is that
as far as I can tell, this warmth does not show up on any of the
ice-core
samples. This is a similar scenario to the 'Little Ice Age' where
summers
(or June's to be exact) were the same as they are today (or even
warmer),
but it was the winters that were colder, suggesting a more
'continental'
climate, possibly due to persistent anticyclonic types.


Nick, the recent GISP2 ice cores from Greenland do show the MWP and LIA
quite well - check out this graph taken from Prof Richard Muller's
website:

http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/Image2.gif

As for Kilimanjaro, didn't those glaciers only form 11,7000 years ago -
after the end of the last Ice Age? ie when global temps ROSE. A
indication surely that in this case, local precipitation is far more
important than temperature.

Andy