You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"Alastair McDonald" k
wrote in message

That is true. And we also know that the amount of greenhouse gas in
the atmospere has increased. If you are looking for reasons for long
term changes, that is the place to look. However, if you are more
concerned with montly variations then I would have thought that the
lunar cycle and atmopheric tides (long waves) would have been the
first thing to check out.

: )



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You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

An interesting aspect to the salt balance of the arctic ocean is that
the intake of dilute brine must equal the outflow of ice and the deeper
brine, since the density of the sea water under the ice is pretty evenly
35 gm /litre.

So the measure of the outflow of ice each year tells the intake from
the Baltic and environs.

Even I can understand that maths.

It must be wrong.


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You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:d32f550c136b8d8474500bec46a3a5a4.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
An interesting aspect to the salt balance of the arctic ocean is that
the intake of dilute brine must equal the outflow of ice and the deeper
brine, since the density of the sea water under the ice is pretty evenly
35 gm /litre.

So the measure of the outflow of ice each year tells the intake from
the Baltic and environs.

Even I can understand that maths.

It must be wrong.

Yes, it is wrong. The water going out is fresh, but these days, the
water going into the Arctic is salty water originating from the Gulf
Stream. This means that the Arctic Ocean is getting saltier and
hence the ice is melting. Eventually the output from the Arctic will
be salty and there will be a salinity balance, but by then the ice will
have gone :-(

Cheers, Alastair.

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Well an Arctic expedition which set out to prove global that warming is
going to kill us all was called of due to weather and ice conditions. well
the reasons are named as "slushy ice, open water, drifting and yes to
underline it all......deep snow, too deep to navigate. Call me cynical but
I thought they went prepared for melt condition ? it was a mission to
prove global warning-yet snow not rain stopped them in their erm.. tracks.

" One World Expedition stops short of first time summer crossing of Arctic
Ocean; explorers vow to continue work on global warming
GRAND MARAIS, MINN., June 3 ---Explorers Lonnie Dupre and Eric Larsen were
forced today to cut short the first attempt to cross the Arctic Ocean in
summer, but have vowed to continue campaigning for action on human-caused
global climate change, including work with expedition partner Greenpeace.
Unexpected weather conditions, including unusually deep snow and a steady
southerly ice drift, led the explorers to call for an airlift.

Since leaving Cape Arctichesky on Siberia's coast May 10, the team
traveled 150 miles but made just 45 miles northward toward the North Pole,
unable to maintain the pace required to complete the trip before winter
storms arrive. They had only a few days of conditions where they could use
their skis, and even then could not make the daily distance required by
the expedition plan.

Dangerous broken ice - fields of small pans and brash ice joined by thin
layers of sea ice which would not support the team's weight, forcing them
to swim and break their way forward - constantly moved in a gyroscopic
action, erasing their hard-won progress each night as they slept. Snow
fell most days, building up a deep layer through which travel was
extremely difficult and slow. Daily temperatures spiked above freezing,
causing the snow to turn to slush. The explorers plan to meet with Arctic
climate experts to share their firsthand experience and observations, and
to see if conditions this year were out of the ordinary. "

Go to their site look at at the
sponsers.http://www.oneworldexpedition.com/pressroom.html

I think its a case of

"We will have global warming. We will!"



Just look at the way they have been treating David Bellamy. Typical of this
type of argument. Lets disagree with him outright beacuse he dares to
challenge "the consensus". Which really means lets not tolerate dissent. So
what has happened? David Bellamy has been asked to stand down as the patron
of the Centre for Alternative Technology.
After this, no doubt then that we won't be seeing David Bellamy on the
BBC from now on:-(

Gavin.

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"Gavin Staples" writes:

Just look at the way they have been treating David Bellamy. Typical of this
type of argument. Lets disagree with him outright beacuse he dares to
challenge "the consensus". Which really means lets not tolerate dissent. So
what has happened? David Bellamy has been asked to stand down as the patron
of the Centre for Alternative Technology.

The alternative, and to my mind correct, way of regarding what has happened is
that someone with a public profile has made use of that to pontificate on a
subject on which he is not expert and about which are he is badly
underinformed. That this has not done him any favours is scarcely surprising.


After this, no doubt then that we won't be seeing David Bellamy on the
BBC from now on:-(


He had dropped off the TV schedules some years ago anyway, so no change there
then.

--
Richard Stamper

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition
 

In article , "Gavin Staples" writes:

Just look at the way they have been treating David Bellamy. Typical of this
type of argument. Lets disagree with him outright beacuse he dares to
challenge "the consensus". Which really means lets not tolerate dissent. So
what has happened? David Bellamy has been asked to stand down as the patron
of the Centre for Alternative Technology.


It is much better than that:-) Bellamy is being removed as President of Plantlife
and the Wildlife Trusts because they know he is talking ******** about climate
change, and they will not tolerate the sort of blatent untruths he is spreading.


You see, I am a member of both!


Cheers,

keith





---
Iraq: 6.5 thousand million pounds, 80 UK lives, and counting...
100,000+ civilian casualties, largely of coalition bombing...

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"Alastair McDonald" k
wrote in message

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:d32f550c136b8d8474500bec46a3a5a4.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...

An interesting aspect to the salt balance of the arctic ocean is that
the intake of dilute brine must equal the outflow of ice and the deeper
brine, since the density of the sea water under the ice is pretty evenly
35 gm /litre.

It must be wrong.

Yes, it is wrong. The water going out is fresh, but these days, the
water going into the Arctic is salty water originating from the Gulf
Stream.

This means that the Arctic Ocean is getting saltier and hence the ice
is melting. Eventually the output from the Arctic will be salty and
there will be a salinity balance, but by then the ice will have gone.

If your theory holds water then there will be records of it now that the
Russians and the Yanks have stopped playing silly buggers up there.

One problem with your idea is that there will be a layer of melt
insulating the icefrom the incresed salt which by the way had better
sink pdq before it mixes.

The other alternative is that while the sea ice leaves at a rate of
knots on th esurface increased salt water leaves below it, maintaining
the status.

Needless to say my theory fits a failsafe model that shouts cyclical and
explains the El Nino, La Nina events. (And my religious mania.)

It would also fit in with increased CO2 and other "pollutant" gasses in
times past when there were high points in these cycles. (If it could
ever be proven there were such polution in the past.)


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You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

It would also fit in with increased CO2 and other "pollutant" gasses in
times past when there were high points in these cycles.


Michael since when has Co2 become a pollutant. If you are correct the sooner
we eradicate Co2 from the atmosphere the better!!!!

Didn't like vegetattion much anyway.

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...

"lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Well an Arctic expedition which set out to prove global that warming
is
going to kill us all was called of due to weather and ice conditions.
well
the reasons are named as "slushy ice, open water, drifting and yes to
underline it all......deep snow, too deep to navigate. Call me cynical
but
I thought they went prepared for melt condition ? it was a mission to
prove global warning-yet snow not rain stopped them in their erm..
tracks.

" One World Expedition stops short of first time summer crossing of
Arctic
Ocean; explorers vow to continue work on global warming
GRAND MARAIS, MINN., June 3 ---Explorers Lonnie Dupre and Eric Larsen
were
forced today to cut short the first attempt to cross the Arctic Ocean in
summer, but have vowed to continue campaigning for action on
human-caused
global climate change, including work with expedition partner
Greenpeace.
Unexpected weather conditions, including unusually deep snow and a
steady
southerly ice drift, led the explorers to call for an airlift.

Since leaving Cape Arctichesky on Siberia's coast May 10, the team
traveled 150 miles but made just 45 miles northward toward the North
Pole,
unable to maintain the pace required to complete the trip before winter
storms arrive. They had only a few days of conditions where they could
use
their skis, and even then could not make the daily distance required by
the expedition plan.

Dangerous broken ice - fields of small pans and brash ice joined by thin
layers of sea ice which would not support the team's weight, forcing
them
to swim and break their way forward - constantly moved in a gyroscopic
action, erasing their hard-won progress each night as they slept. Snow
fell most days, building up a deep layer through which travel was
extremely difficult and slow. Daily temperatures spiked above freezing,
causing the snow to turn to slush. The explorers plan to meet with
Arctic
climate experts to share their firsthand experience and observations,
and
to see if conditions this year were out of the ordinary. "

Go to their site look at at the
sponsers.http://www.oneworldexpedition.com/pressroom.html

I think its a case of

"We will have global warming. We will!"



Just look at the way they have been treating David Bellamy. Typical of
this
type of argument. Lets disagree with him outright beacuse he dares to
challenge "the consensus". Which really means lets not tolerate dissent.
So
what has happened? David Bellamy has been asked to stand down as the
patron
of the Centre for Alternative Technology.
After this, no doubt then that we won't be seeing David Bellamy on the
BBC from now on:-(

Gavin.

Not the BBC ? surely they're not like that. What was that song they used as
the theme tune for the last children in need? ah yes
"shakin that arse" The television license site is fantastic . The last time
I `looked you could read it in 78 languages.
Yes the BBC has become the last refuge for all those privaleged
middle-classes who hate themselvs, wanted Stalin and Mao in power and
actually ignored the atrocities in those countries and now this motley group
of failed commies run the BBC. The BBC are brain washing ****s nowdays just
the main news story recently about leukaemia and power lines. It was
presented in that typical Michael Burke style of whiny whingy
wettness."Report released today, powerlines linked to cancer cover up ,
scandal, conspiracy why OH WHY???.
As the report unfolded it turns out that something like 3 people who'd lived
near power-lines in the last 45 years had developed leukaemia. Don't let
facts stop the BBC.
I'm glad Keith is happy that Bellamy has been given the spanish archer by
the BBC. It allows more space for people like Julian "fisting Norman Lamont"
Clary to speak to us all with his crude often base double entendres at peak
family viewing times.

So in essence I wouldn't trust the BBC with any objectivity on global
warming.
Give me Bellamy any day.

By the way, one of the cited reasons for "mother earth I hear you crying"
Greenpeace backed melting arctic awarness expedition was "heavy snow"

You have to laugh. Arctic expedition fails
 

"lawrence.jenkins" wrote in message


It would also fit in with increased CO2 and other "pollutant" gasses in
times past when there were high points in these cycles.

Michael since when has Co2 become a pollutant. If you are correct the sooner
we eradicate Co2 from the atmosphere the better!!!!

It became a pollutant when the global warmers wanted it to be one.
Personally I have never been able to understand why Hawaii is the datum
for clean air.

Or doesn't it put out as much CO2 as normal vocanoes?

I believe that CO2 levels are maintained at around 1/2% just like they
always were with perhaps some occasional rises due to the largish
eruptions we have had occasionally since they reset their satellites at
NASA.

(I wonder what readings the Russkis were getting in the late 70's.)

Anyway I put the term pollutants in quotes because I don't believe they
are pollutants. Any of "them".

As for the US or A not signing up fot the Kyoto Agreement. That is how
democracies sometimes go.

If the US wants to invade another brown skinned peoples they will offer
to join I am sure and get the backing of any satellite countries like
Britain (who needed the US to stop funding terrorism Northern Ireland.)


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